Members pizzahutgood Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 This is probably a really stupid question, but how good of a piano player do you need to be to be good on a synth. I play guitar, but would love to get a synth. It just seems like it would be so much fun. Unfortunately, iv never played the piano and im at an age (23) where i dont have time to play like i would have in high-school or college. Technically speaking, do you really need to be a great player to be able to make some sick synth tracks. Im just not sure if i have the motivation right now to practice technique for hours on end. Also, off topic, how would you record w/ a analog synth like the alesis a6? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members whitepapagold Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 Its never too late to start. You could even get a cheap old analog like a Roland Alpha Juno 1 ( I love mine but its not the best synth) for like 100- 150. The only way to really know is to TRY! Piano is the foundation of popular theory so its never bad to get on it! To record the A6, go direct through a mic preamp. I would choose a 1073 for edgy bass stuff or GML for clean wide panned stuff. Those are very expensive though so maybe a little more relative info? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members llamastorm Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 I can't play piano worth anything. I'd say get one and have fun! Synths are (to me) anyway, are pretty different -- you've got reasonably long attack/sustain if you want it, and more interesting sounds, plus lots more to do, so there's less need to be a super-piano rockstar to make them sound good. You'll get there though. Monosynths are pretty different too... No chords to worry about, and much more fun to be had with knobs, pitch bend, and mod wheels I just record my stuff through the audio interface attached to my Mac. (There's a mixer in front of it, though that's not neccessary). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pizzahutgood Posted March 8, 2008 Author Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 Oh, and let me clarify. Im not trying to be Scott Kinsey or Joe Zawinul. Im extremely inspired by the Crystal method album Vegas. It doesnt sound to me like that stuff is too technical, and a lot of it is layered. Am I right? And I dont know anything about synths. llamastorm, What is a mono synth? What type of stuff do you play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members whitepapagold Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 Oh, and let me clarify. Im not trying to be Scott Kinsey or Joe Zawinul. Im extremely inspired by the Crystal method album Vegas. It doesnt sound to me like that stuff is too technical, and a lot of it is layered. Am I right? No your very wrong sadly. They have a stable of gear that would rock the universe... That is also my all time favorite electronic album. They also have MONSTER programming chops and obviously a lot of drugs to keep them up all night. That album was actually an anomaly- I have never heard anything from them since that was even close to that album. The CD is actually in my player right NOW! SO- if you want to sound like that, you have some disappointment coming! And thinking its not too technical is an underestimation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members llamastorm Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 Monosynths can only play one note at a time. No chords. It's kind of a cost reduction thing and kind of a philosophy. I have a Moog Little Phatty which is a pure analog beast and I love it to death. (Ignore the presets!) Hmm, I don't know what I play. I mostly fool around I guess. Somewhat of a cross between instrumental randomness and weird noises I do know a good share of scales/chords and can sorta play by ear, just saying I would look totally clueless if you asked me to play Bach or threw some complicated sheet music in front of me. Which I imagine is also true for a lot of guitar players Given a lot of synth stuff you hear is probably sequenced, I wouldn't worry about it too much, there's still tons of fun to be had without trying to replicate all that mess. I'm kind of eyeing a MachineDrum though ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pizzahutgood Posted March 8, 2008 Author Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 No your very wrong sadly. They have a stable of gear that would rock the universe... That is also my all time favorite electronic album. They also have MONSTER programming chops and obviously a lot of drugs to keep them up all night. That album was actually an anomaly- I have never heard anything from them since that was even close to that album. The CD is actually in my player right NOW!SO- if you want to sound like that, you have some disappointment coming! And thinking its not too technical is an underestimation... Thanks for the reality check, seriously. Yeah, I dont get them. Their other albums suck. But man, iv never heard anything that was even close to being as good as that album, electronically speaking. I remember telling my friend about the album, and he was like "you gotta listen to DJ Tiesto." Maybe im missing something, but his stuff is nowhere close to the stuff off of Vegas. Still, it seems like it be fun to get a synth and see what I could do with one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dereksljuka Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 You don't have to be any kind of piano or keyboard player AT ALL to use synthesizers. You can sequence and trigger everything with MIDI and never even touch the keys. A synthesizer is principally for sound design. Some synths come with keyboards attached and some don't, but nowadays (since the early 1980s) they all have MIDI I/O. By the way, I started playing piano at age 5, and it's useful but not of crucial importance if you want to make electronic music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pizzahutgood Posted March 8, 2008 Author Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 You don't have to be any kind of piano or keyboard player AT ALL to use synthesizers. You can sequence and trigger everything with MIDI and never even touch the keys. A synthesizer is principally for sound design. Some synths come with keyboards attached and some don't, but nowadays (since the early 1980s) they all have MIDI I/O. By the way, I started playing piano at age 5, and it's useful but not of crucial importance if you want to make electronic music. Ok, so what would be an example of a synthesizer w/o a keyboard attached. And how do you sequence that? Using a computer program or a piece of hardware? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members whitepapagold Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 Thanks for the reality check, seriously. Yeah, I dont get them. Their other albums suck. But man, iv never heard anything that was even close to being as good as that album, electronically speaking. I remember telling my friend about the album, and he was like "you gotta listen to DJ Tiesto." Maybe im missing something, but his stuff is nowhere close to the stuff off of Vegas. Still, it seems like it be fun to get a synth and see what I could do with one. Anyone who can take quotes from a muppet movie (the dark crystal) and make them sound so bad you want to start punching walls had a little magic cracking! And I hate to say it but the drugged out club/rave scene of THAT time period combined with that specific drug helped make that album great. Tension- it PWNS tension. So does Meth! That wasn't an E album like most crap now... Completely different mindset. Meth is edgy as hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members llamastorm Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 "Ok, so what would be an example of a synthesizer w/o a keyboard attached. And how do you sequence that? Using a computer program or a piece of hardware?" Rack units of pretty much any synth that has a rack unit. Also something like the Desktop Evolver or the Future Retro Revolution... Bring your own MIDI controller if you want to play it with a keyboard in that case. In either case if it doesn't have a sequencer, yes, either MIDI from a computer (a serious pain to enter that IMHO) or hardware. Some synths have (in varying degrees of quality) sequencers built into them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Prog Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 You're in luck. No musical talent is required to play synths. None. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members elsongs Posted March 9, 2008 Members Share Posted March 9, 2008 To be a true synth player, you have to know than just playing piano. In fact I've heard some very skilled and talented piano players who just plain suck on a synthesizer (*Especially* the crime of playing left hand chords in the wrong octave). You have to know how to work the pitch and mod wheels -- and appropriately (you don't wanna bend the pitch wheel when you play a piano sound). You have to know how to work portamento, especially if you're playing monophonically. If your synth has aftertouch you have to know how to use that. It's no different from knowing how to work the whammy bar or triggering the right amount of feedback on an an electric guitar and amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Awake77 Posted March 9, 2008 Members Share Posted March 9, 2008 Oh, and let me clarify. Im not trying to be Scott Kinsey or Joe Zawinul. Im extremely inspired by the Crystal method album Vegas. It doesnt sound to me like that stuff is too technical, and a lot of it is layered. Am I right? And I dont know anything about synths. llamastorm, What is a mono synth? What type of stuff do you play? That's a timeless electronic album...just timeless! I still play 'N2O' on the playstation and it has tracks off Vegas...and its still awesome too:) And like whitepapagold said, writing good, original electronic music is actually very involved and incrediblly technical. To produce on the level of a group like The Crystal Method, youd have to pour just as much time and dedication into production techniques and synth programming as you would on your guitar to shred like Yngwie Malmsteen. Believe me I know, because I try to do both:) (note the 'try') For some cool electronic stuff you should check out internet radio. (Shoutcast). Some of my favorite stations are: www.FriskyRadio.com www.di.fm www.Protonradiio.com www.Bassdrive.com The 'Vegas' album is in a sub genre called 'breakbeat' (or 'bigbeat') - di.fm has a channel just for that so you may want to check it out. A77 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pizzahutgood Posted March 9, 2008 Author Members Share Posted March 9, 2008 That's a timeless electronic album...just timeless! I still play 'N2O' on the playstation and it has tracks of Vegas...and its still awesome too:) And like whitepapagold said, writing good, original electronic music is actually very involved and incrediblly technical. To produce on the level of a group like The Crystal Method, youd have to pour just as much time and dedication into production techniques and synth programming as you would on your guitar to shred like Yngwie Malmsteen. Believe me I know, because I try to do both:) (note the 'try') For some cool electronic stuff you should check out internet radio. (Shoutcast). Some of my favorite stations are: www.FriskyRadio.comwww.di.fmwww.Protonradiio.comwww.Bassdrive.com The 'Vegas' album is a sub called 'breakbeat' (or 'bigbeat') - di.fm has a channel just for that so you may want to check it out. A77 Thanks. Listening right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tshapiro Posted March 9, 2008 Members Share Posted March 9, 2008 pizzahutgood,I'm a guitarist of 20 years who just completed my first year of synth. You definetly need some understanding of the notes and the basics of scales to solo with and you're off and running. But, like anything, to be good takes years to master feature set of the instrument and build your playing chops. It's a lot of fun, I would take the plunge and buy something that you can grow with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Allerian Posted March 9, 2008 Members Share Posted March 9, 2008 To be a true synth player, you have to know than just playing piano. In fact I've heard some very skilled and talented piano players who just plain suck on a synthesizer (*Especially* the crime of playing left hand chords in the wrong octave). You have to know how to work the pitch and mod wheels -- and appropriately (you don't wanna bend the pitch wheel when you play a piano sound). You have to know how to work portamento, especially if you're playing monophonically. If your synth has aftertouch you have to know how to use that. It's no different from knowing how to work the whammy bar or triggering the right amount of feedback on an an electric guitar and amp. +1. I was going to write something about sound design, but you nailed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OPEN OCEAN Posted March 9, 2008 Members Share Posted March 9, 2008 better try it first and see what happens...good luck... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pizzahutgood Posted March 9, 2008 Author Members Share Posted March 9, 2008 say I purchase a synth, does the manual included provide enough info to get a grasp of what all the functions are? Any good books that talk about programing? What exactly does it mean to program. When I look at a synth like the access virus, I just see a bunch of knobs. Is there more to programing than just tweaking knobs for hours until you get exactly the sound you want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dawn Posted March 9, 2008 Members Share Posted March 9, 2008 Man, I hear this question all the time. The answer is a definate yes if you really want to be any good at it. I compare it to accoustic guitar and Electric guitar. Either instrument you have to understand chord structure and scales. If you're not that interested in the actual playing skills itself, there are lots of loop programs to be had that you can create a multitude of synth sounds with. But if you really want to understand the instrument, start learning the piano for the keyboard theory if nothing else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members angstwulf Posted March 9, 2008 Members Share Posted March 9, 2008 say I purchase a synth, does the manual included provide enough info to get a grasp of what all the functions are? Any good books that talk about programing? What exactly does it mean to program. When I look at a synth like the access virus, I just see a bunch of knobs. Is there more to programing than just tweaking knobs for hours until you get exactly the sound you want? It's a long commitment, learning to program a synth to your liking. Not nearly as involved as learning a musical instrument but once you go beyond the joy of wildly throwing around knobs (which by the way, will never get old) you will be spending a lot of time reading and experimenting. I've never personally found a book on programming that I could recommend to someone who didn't have a synth in front of them. It's the same as describing what it's like to blow on a reed instrument as opposed to sitting down with a saxophone. Only more monotonous. Here's a pretty decent book that comes with a CD that illustrates (?) the lessons: http://www.amazon.com/Power-Tools-Synthesizer-Programming-Reference/dp/0879307730/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1205082215&sr=8-1 A lot of manuals and articles are floating around on the web. I always download and read the manual before I seriously think about picking up any equipment. Do a search here, there was a recent thread that went over this. As far as playing technique: Elsongs hit it on the head - synth playing is not the same as piano playing. Some great synth players wouldn't be caught dead in front of a piano and sheet music. Likewise, a seasoned piano player may not do anything exciting on a synth. I think that's more attitude than ability. If you don't like electronic music and would rather play classical or blues, then dance or jazz fusion or experiment just ain't going to float your boat. Since you are a guitar player, I can assume two things are likely to happen if you do pick up a synth (and you should get a keyboard synth or a module with a decent keyboard controller): 1. You will want to learn more music theory/piano technique even if you don't pick up formal piano lessons; and 2. Your guitar playing will also change since you see scales and chords differently on a keyboard. This can be a good thing. This can also lead to Prog. Which may or may not be a good thing. Party on, dude, and be excellent to one another,Tommy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Elhardt Posted March 9, 2008 Members Share Posted March 9, 2008 No your very wrong sadly. They have a stable of gear that would rock the universe... That is also my all time favorite electronic album. They also have MONSTER programming chops and obviously a lot of drugs to keep them up all night. That album was actually an anomaly- I have never heard anything from them since that was even close to that album. The CD is actually in my player right NOW! Having just gone to Amazon to hear the preview of all of the tracks, the synth programming is simple basic stuff run through echo with some filter sweeps. Why people talk this stuff up like it's anything special is beyond me unless of course their own synth use is really childish. It's typical unoriginal stuff you hear in all music like that. Not to mention the repetitive nature of the music itself which points to them probably not being musicians or able to play keyboards themselves. This is not the album people should be looking to for influence. There's enough of this stuff in the world already, no need to add to it. If you want to put out good music (that's music that actually has musical elements beyond what a two year old would do), then you need to learn to play keyboard or learn to sequence in a way that sounds like you know how to play the keyboard or compose music. Of course, you could always buy a guitar synth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members whitepapagold Posted March 9, 2008 Members Share Posted March 9, 2008 Having just gone to Amazon to hear the preview of all of the tracks, the synth programming is simple basic stuff run through echo with some filter sweeps. Why people talk this stuff up like it's anything special is beyond me unless of course their own synth use is really childish. It's typical unoriginal stuff you hear in all music like that. Not to mention the repetitive nature of the music itself which points to them probably not being musicians or able to play keyboards themselves. This is not the album people should be looking to for influence. There's enough of this stuff in the world already, no need to add to it. If you want to put out good music (that's music that actually has musical elements beyond what a two year old would do), then you need to learn to play keyboard or learn to sequence in a way that sounds like you know how to play the keyboard or compose music. Of course, you could always buy a guitar synth. You are not just wrong but a complete fool! And programming isn't just sound design- that ablum SOUNDS incredible. The best part is you just show your ignorance. Try as hard as you might anonymous internet guy on couch who deep frys things for a living! That album made the Crystal Method famous... So lets check the score- 1 for non-pro internet troll vs multi platinum sales for Vegas- a ground breaking record recognized by the majority of the professional musical world! You can not like it but to devalue its contribution just proves you are ignorant! Nothin I love more than someone who can't make a living making music hating on those who can! OH and I love the "having just gone to Amazon and listening to clips" line- AWESOME! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lazarus cortex Posted March 9, 2008 Members Share Posted March 9, 2008 This is probably a really stupid question, but how good of a piano player do you need to be to be good on a synth. I play guitar, but would love to get a synth. It just seems like it would be so much fun. Unfortunately, iv never played the piano and im at an age (23) where i dont have time to play like i would have in high-school or college. Technically speaking, do you really need to be a great player to be able to make some sick synth tracks. Im just not sure if i have the motivation right now to practice technique for hours on end. get a Korg Oasys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members whitepapagold Posted March 10, 2008 Members Share Posted March 10, 2008 get a Korg Oasys Yeah... the smart move for your first synth is to spend 8 grand... Please tell me that was sarcastic and not serious... The oasys is a piece of marketing genius- a computer w/ controller for 8 grand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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