Anyone watch the town hall heathcare meetings?

[madryan]

 

i only ask because it seems all i have heard is either it is death panels, 6 month wait times at emergency rooms, and the eventual rise of communism in the u.s. or the system we have now.

 

 

If you actually read the bill, or at least what I've heard highlighted so far (I heard some interesting stuff with cited page numbers from both bills so you can look it up. I've got it written down somewhere) but it's been really misrepresented.

 

Basically the take home point is that much of the hysteria about this is bull{censored}. That being said, there's some whacky {censored} in the bill. It'll destroy the private insurance industry an a year or two. The reason I say this is there's a provision that makes it mandatory that you jump ship from your existing private plan and sign up with the government plan if anything changes in your private plan. That means if they add a prescription drug they previously didn't cover or anything you immediately lose your private plan and have to sign up for the government plan. I believe that's on page 16 of the house bill IIRC.

 

Just stupid {censored}.

 

This thing is a collosal cash cow for GE and a few other companies that will be able to implement the infrastructure. It'll kill much of the rest of the industry but they'll probably get rolled into the beauracracy. The biggest loser will be the Tax payer because it'll cost far more than what you're paying now in actual cost but you'll get less coverage.

[SpectralJulian]

Pennsylvania is Philadelphia and Pittsburgh with Alabama in between

-James Carville

[Turd Furgison]

http://patientsunitednow.com/files/full-bill-searchable.pdf

 

here it is in all its glory, maybe you could show me the crazy parts?

 

healthcare coverage doesn't matter to me at this point (i don't have any), i am young, healthy, and pay cash for any work i have done (you get much better prices when you mention you have cash in your pocket to cover your expenses).

[SpectralJulian]

http://patientsunitednow.com/files/full-bill-searchable.pdf here it is in all its glory, maybe you could show me the crazy parts? healthcare coverage doesn't matter to me at this point (i don't have any), i am young, healthy, and pay cash for any work i have done (you get much better prices when you mention you have cash in your pocket to cover your expenses).

 

 

That's just ignorant.

 

What happens if you get testicular cancer or into a major car accident? Or what if you get punched in the face and lose some teeth?

 

And what about other working poor that make too much to get free healthcare and too little for private healthcare?

 

Or small business owners?

[madryan]

 

http://patientsunitednow.com/files/full-bill-searchable.pdf here it is in all its glory, maybe you could show me the crazy parts? healthcare coverage doesn't matter to me at this point (i don't have any), i am young, healthy, and pay cash for any work i have done (you get much better prices when you mention you have cash in your pocket to cover your expenses).

 

 

That's not the bill. HR-3200 is something like 1000 pages.

[Dolf]

That's not the bill. HR-3200 is something like 1000 pages.

 

 

^:phil:

[Turd Furgison]

That's not the bill. HR-3200 is something like 1000 pages.

my bad, damn google giving me the wrong answers to my vague search queries

here you go:
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3200/text

[Turd Furgison]

What happens if you get testicular cancer or into a major car accident? Or what if you get punched in the face and lose some teeth?

[BmoreTele]

Follow the money.

All the studies that have been done for the past fifty years show that a single payer non profit system is the most effective and efficient way to deliver health care.

Unfortunately, the insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, and hospital corporations are making too much money with the current system and are using all that money to fight any changes.

The Republican party lost big and wants Obama to fail, even if it hurts the country. They want their power back.

The angry people at these town halls feel their world slipping away and have been convinced that there is a culprit - "the Liberals" - and that everything will be better if there is actually NO government. Unfortunately, the only people who will benefit from a weak government are the folks who have been looting the country for the past two hundred years - like the insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, and hospital corporations.

I've been a nurse for forty years, actually doing real health care and I'm watching hospitals close, states drastically cut their health budgets, emergency rooms fill to overflowing, and reimbursement rates for nursing homes keep dropping. Who's going to take care of these baby boomer town hall crowds when they break a hip or get cancer? The NRA?

Who's going to provide the swine flu shots everyone is going to want in a couple months? That would be the government.

Or should we leave it up to the "free market forces?" Then only the rich will get the flu shots.

Will all these angry citizens refuse the flu shots because the government is subsidizing them? Or will they just get upset if some of the flu shots go to people with brown skin?

I feel like my world is slipping away from me too. After forty years of caring for my neighbors and their family members, the health care system is breaking down just as my medical needs are increasing.

I guess the rich neeed to be richer.

[Faldoe]

A lot of this conservatives at these meetings are retarded. Liberals can be just as dumb but this method of just disrupting, exhibiting no logic, etc. Its sad.

 

{censored} Faux news. Damn

[madryan]

 

Follow the money. All the studies that have been done for the past fifty years show that a single payer non profit system is the most effective and efficient way to deliver health care. Unfortunately, the insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, and hospital corporations are making too much money with the current system and are using all that money to fight any changes. The Republican party lost big and wants Obama to fail, even if it hurts the country. They want their power back. The angry people at these town halls feel their world slipping away and have been convinced that there is a culprit - "the Liberals" - and that everything will be better if there is actually NO government. Unfortunately, the only people who will benefit from a weak government are the folks who have been looting the country for the past two hundred years - like the insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, and hospital corporations. I've been a nurse for forty years, actually doing real health care and I'm watching hospitals close, states drastically cut their health budgets, emergency rooms fill to overflowing, and reimbursement rates for nursing homes keep dropping. Who's going to take care of these baby boomer town hall crowds when they break a hip or get cancer? The NRA? Who's going to provide the swine flu shots everyone is going to want in a couple months? That would be the government. Or should we leave it up to the "free market forces?" Then only the rich will get the flu shots. Will all these angry citizens refuse the flu shots because the government is subsidizing them? Or will they just get upset if some of the flu shots go to people with brown skin? I feel like my world is slipping away from me too. After forty years of caring for my neighbors and their family members, the health care system is breaking down just as my medical needs are increasing. I guess the rich neeed to be richer.

 

 

Please link those studies...

 

I'm curious because I took economics and the biggest single consumer is the government. The government doesn't do anything efficiently so your statement goes against several hundred years of established economic thinking.

 

I should also add that my wife works in the industry as well and I'm in school to be a Nurse and I can say that alot of the rising cost is from states mandating all sorts of crazy {censored} that insurance companies need to cover on a per state basis. I like the idea of being able to purchase insurance across state lines as a means to combat this, or get state governments out of the insurance business and come up with some general guidelines that are standardized.

[madryan]

A lot of this conservatives at these meetings are retarded. Liberals can be just as dumb but this method of just disrupting, exhibiting no logic, etc. Its sad. {censored} Faux news. Damn

 

Wow... Way to be part of the problem. :poke:

 

We've been having a fairly adult discussion here. Try to add something logical and compelling here.

[madryan]

I've been trying to download the text of HR3200 for 20 minutes now and all I get is this..

 

[Faldoe]

Wow... Way to be part of the problem. :poke: We've been having a fairly adult discussion here. Try to add something logical and compelling here.

 

A lot of what some of you are saying is good and I agree with.

 

A lot of these people are stupid, its fact. Doesn't mean that some of them are genuinely concerned and wanting to have a discussion about Health Care, they do exist but amongst a {censored} load of human fails.

 

This isn't a "conservatives are stoopid liberals aren't" POV.

[rushfan]

this.... i think conservatives are just fed up with the stupid party games. why cant they just talk about this and actually take the time to work on a program that satisfys everyones needs and isnt going to be a train wreck. it seems to me that the dems just want to pass this healthcare reform to say they actually changed something. the problem with that is, i dont think they are taking the time to get other peoples opinions and really work out all the kinks which will result in a major disaster. why cant they just try a small scale test of the system and see how it works instead of implementing it for the whole country and screwing everything up? i dont know much about politics but as someone who watches the news everyday and reads the articles thats what it seems like to me... im not trying to bash anyone its just an observation.

 

OMFG You're a racist!!!

 

(sorry, it's the typical response around here to anything that doesn't amount to licking Obama's balls)

 

Kidding aside, you are 100% correct. Dems want to push this through as fast as possible. We've waited this long, why not another year or two to make sure it's the right plan? Because they would count it as "victory" of a major sort.

 

Trying something this massive out on a small scale would certainly be the first choice to most logical people. You always do a pilot study to see how something this far-reaching works.

 

However, libs don't want you to do that. They want to shove it down your throat no matter if you want it or not.

[madryan]

 

A lot of what some of you are saying is good and I agree with. A lot of these people are stupid, its fact. Doesn't mean that some of them are genuinely concerned and wanting to have a discussion about Health Care, they do exists but amongst {censored} load of human fails. This isn't a "conservatives are stoopid liberals aren't" POV.

 

 

Lots of folks at the meetings are idiots. True. Lots of folks just don't want our government to tank our currency which they're working really hard at doing. I personally think it's great that they care enough to actually do something. They're pissed because they care which is better than apathy.

 

What bothers me is the complete 180 everybody has done regarding protesters. 2 years ago everybody protesting the administration was a patriot and a progressive. Now they're just idiot astroturfers who listen to Faux News. See my point?

 

Any time people have the stones to stand up for what they believe in it's a good thing.

[madryan]

OMFG You're a racist!!! (sorry, it's the typical response around here to anything that doesn't amount to licking Obama's balls) Kidding aside, you are 100% correct. Dems want to push this through as fast as possible. We've waited this long, why not another year or two to make sure it's the right plan? Because they would count it as "victory" of a major sort. Trying something this massive out on a small scale would certainly be the first choice to most logical people. You always do a pilot study to see how something this far-reaching works. However, libs don't want you to do that. They want to shove it down your throat no matter if you want it or not.

 

In all fairness, it's not a Lib/Con thing. It's a Government/Us thing.

[ibentmywookie]

Trying something this massive out on a small scale would certainly be the first choice to most logical people. You always do a pilot study to see how something this far-reaching works.

 

 

The pilot study was called Canada, and it worked. Most of the countries with the top ranking health care systems are regulated heavily by their respective government. For instance, if you were to look at France's health care system (I studied it for a semester), you'd realize their lack of privatization is one of several reasons why they're ranked first.

[Brambulance]

i had the bill loaded in 10 secs

[ibentmywookie]

What bothers me is the complete 180 everybody has done regarding protesters. 2 years ago everybody protesting the administration was a patriot and a progressive. Now they're just idiot astroturfers who listen to Faux News. See my point?

 

 

Easy, two years ago patriots and progressives were protesting idiots astroturgers who control Faux News. Now, idiot astroturfers who listen to Faux News are protesting the original protestors. It's a cycle, two sides, one coin.

[rushfan]

The pilot study was called Canada, and it worked. Most of the countries with the top ranking health care systems are regulated heavily by their respective government. For instance, if you were to look at France's health care system (I studied it for a semester), you'd realize their lack of privatization is one of several reasons why they're ranked first.

 

 

Sorry, no. Canada is not the US.

 

BUT... Could we use their plan as a MODEL? Abso{censored}inglutely, in fact that's an excellent idea. But sadly we're not. Isn't that odd?

 

Look, it's not that health care for everyone is something everyone in this country doesn't want. It's how we go about getting there that is the issue. You want to run a marathon, you don't just put on some swim trunks and a pair of nikes and run. You practice, work out the kinks, and move forward.

 

The biggest problem I have with this health care bill is that it's all or nothing, and coming at a horrible time. Once it's implemented it will either succeed (HOPE!) or fail miserably and completely destroy our reeling economy in the process.

[Faldoe]

 

Lots of folks at the meetings are idiots. True. Lots of folks just don't want our government to tank our currency which they're working really hard at doing. I personally think it's great that they care enough to actually do something. They're pissed because they care which is better than apathy. What bothers me is the complete 180 everybody has done regarding protesters. 2 years ago everybody protesting the administration was a patriot and a progressive. Now they're just idiot astroturfers who listen to Faux News. See my point? Any time people have the stones to stand up for what they believe in it's a good thing.

 

 

Sometimes its better to think before you speak (not talking about you but some of these town hall people), like the folks with Medicare saying "No Gov. health care", I'm not saying those people are the total idiots I speak of but an example of not thinking before speaking). I think a lot of these people are pissed based not on justified grounds but just to be able to rally up and talk {censored}, perpetuate (more than likely unconsciously) skewed facts about the Health Care debate streamed to them via Faux News...

 

No I don't see your point with regards to protesters. Are you talking about people (more often liberals) protesting the Bush administration? If so, did people call them "patriotic" or "unpatriotic" - America: "Love it or leave it"

 

I think the problem is that a lot of these protesters aren't adding anything to the dialogue, a lot of them are talking {censored}, waving signs, wanting to be seen and heard. The same could be said for some liberal protesters - not adding anything but a lot of the past anti-administration protests have been to push for dialogue, investigations etc. not just acting out.

[madryan]

 

The pilot study was called Canada, and it worked. Most of the countries with the top ranking health care systems are regulated heavily by their respective government. For instance, if you were to look at France's health care system (I studied it for a semester), you'd realize their lack of privatization is one of several reasons why they're ranked first.

 

 

A buddy of mine works for the hospital in Port Angeles WA and his hospital is full of Canadians getting stuff done they can't get done in Canada. Where will we go? Mexico?

 

It's a legit question...

[ibentmywookie]

Sorry, no. Canada is not the US. BUT... Could we use their plan as a MODEL? Abso{censored}inglutely, in fact that's an excellent idea. But sadly we're not. Isn't that odd? Look, it's not that health care for everyone is something everyone in this country doesn't want. It's how we go about getting there that is the issue. You want to run a marathon, you don't just put on some swim trunks and a pair of nikes and run. You practice, work out the kinks, and move forward. The biggest problem I have with this health care bill is that it's all or nothing, and coming at a horrible time. Once it's implemented it will either succeed (HOPE!) or fail miserably and completely destroy our reeling economy in the process.

 

 

You have some valid points. However, Britain has a highly publicized health care system too, and do you know when the introduced it? After the war when the country was in rubbles. Their public health care system was what aided them through that time of turmoil. People did not have to worry about getting medical attention and didn't have to worry about medical bills/health insurance. Instead, they were able to concentrate on working and getting their country and economy back up to par.

In terms of preparation, I think the United States is plenty prepared. If you can recall the time when Clinton was in office, Hilary was rallying VERY hard for publicized health care, so I am sure they have created several plans for action that are well thought out.

[ibentmywookie]

A buddy of mine works for the hospital in Port Angeles WA and his hospital is full of Canadians getting stuff done they can't get done in Canada. Where will we go? Mexico? It's a legit question...

 

 

Err, it's probably not that Canadians couldn't get health care in Canada, it's probably because Canada didn't have the specialists or the equipment that the United States has for the procedures that these Canadians were receiving. Perhaps the hospital specialized in a specific surgery and Canadians were being referred to that specific hospital? If that is the scenario, then you guys could probably go to that hospital too...