So we got this keyboard player.....

[elsongs]

Well, the thing is..... A lot of keyboard players I've met are crazy. No offense meant to you guys, but this is the first keyboard player I've played with that owns his own phone and has a relatively stable life. And yes, I said phone. And he's a friend. Definitely nervous about looking around, especially as he understands the vibe we are looking for. I'd rather teach a good guy then find a new one.

LOL, the reality is that there are lots of fine, talented, mature and responsible keyboardists out there...the reason why you're not playing with them? WE DON'T NEED YOU GUYS!

[suitandtieguy]

LOL, the reality is that there are lots of fine, talented, mature and responsible keyboardists out there...the reason why you're not playing with them? WE DON'T NEED YOU GUYS!

this thread reeks of "please help me take a situation with a really cool sound and {censored} it up a bunch at the expense of the personal gravity of the keyboardist who i want to do the {censored}ting and who btw is not here to speak his mind."

[kennychaffin]

this thread reeks of "please help me take a situation with a really cool sound and {censored} it up a bunch at the expense of the personal gravity of the keyboardist who i want to do the {censored}ting and who btw is not here to speak his mind."

Yep, that about sums it up I think.

KAC

[suitandtieguy]

Yep, that about sums it up I think.

 

 

it really reminds me of the points in my life when i was with a band and they didn't like that i was only interested in playing organ. one bandleader went so far as to say "yeah we're going to get you this Kurzweil. if you bring the organ you're fired."

 

i was like "eh. {censored} off."

[kennychaffin]

Yeah kinda like telling the guitar player to get rid of that Telecaster we've got a Rickenbacker for you....

 

KAC

[pink floyd cramer]

I definitely wouldn't worry about the guy being a techno-phobe. IMO that's a strength. Because then he focuses on playing instead of bells and whistles, shiny new toys etc. Good player+good guy = keeper.

[ChristianRock]

Yeah maybe if you guys adapted the songs more towards his playing style and sounds, you might create something really good and unique (since Rhodes is a sound very much in demand).
Another thing you might consider is to add another keyboard player, or play some additional sounds yourself (or maybe the bass player might agree to play them, it all depends on what you guys are doing).
If you got a good Rhodes player who is also a real good guy to keep in the band, make sure he's happy and get the best out of what he does well. Or else you might end up losing him.

[I was The Funk]

Yeah kinda like telling the guitar player to get rid of that Telecaster we've got a Rickenbacker for you.... KAC

Except for he WANTS to have other sounds, but he doesn't know where to begin and feels like he has to spend $3000 to get anything decent and he doesn't have it so he's intimidated. And he hates synth action, so he is reluctant to even go with a normal synth.

I'm trying to help him get something that will work.

Also, I think we have a Juno D laying around somewhere.....

We seem to have a lot of spare gear.

And incidentally, I have guitars that have no place in this band, as well as pedals that have no place in this band. You bring the right stuff for the job at hand. You build a band rig around the sound that the band needs in terms of what you feel your best contribution could be. For example, this weekend I'll purchase a new tremelo pedal because I've been using the trem on my amp a lot, but not using my flanger a lot. So the trem will replace the flanger for THIS band. If someone told me they needed something different, within reason, and I agreed with the assesment, I would find a way to produce the desired sound.

[The Pro]

Seems like if he was into synths/pianos/organs or whatever he'd have gotten them himself long before now. This band might load him up with sounds only to find that he can't or won't use them. I think there's more to this picture than what we're seeing... this guy plays Rhodes-only for a reason, and I suspect it isn't poverty.

[Dejavoodoo]

Also, I think we have a Juno D laying around somewhere..... We seem to have a lot of spare gear.

 

Indeed.

 

Why can't I join bands that have a lot of spare gear?

[I was The Funk]

Seems like if he was into synths/pianos/organs or whatever he'd have gotten them himself long before now. This band might load him up with sounds only to find that he can't or won't use them. I think there's more to this picture than what we're seeing... this guy plays Rhodes-only for a reason, and I suspect it isn't poverty.

 

 

He used to have an 88 key Yamaha synth. But he sold it because he wasn't playing in a band for a while. He basically quit music for a couple of years, but didn't sell the rhodes because he didn't think he could find a new one. Rhodes amp section has a problem that he needs to get fixed, but he hasn't gotten around to it mostly because the guy around here that fixes it needs to be gotten ahold of during weekdays between 10:00 and 4:00 and Zack works during that time (like we all do). So now, he's back playing music, needs some new sounds and doesn't have money, but also doesn't check resources like this, and isn't very gear savvy.

 

Yeah, theres always more to the story, bubt it doesn't change the real need. I'll go to the space this weekend and dig around for synths. I know we have an old ensoniq somewhere in there as well as the Juno D (don't know where that is, but somebody has one), and the JX-10 which is visible. Theres also a microkorg in there, but Zack finds it hard to control and unpredictable (so do I) and he doesn't like the mini keys.

[I was The Funk]

Indeed. Why can't I join bands that have a lot of spare gear?

Dude, you should see our space. Theres sooooo much {censored} in there.

[rovito]

Kurzweil ME-1 at Musicians Friend for $319. Easy, sounds great, small and cheap.

If my guitar player picked up his Tele to play an AC/DC song more than once there would be a meeting. The right sound for the right song!

[ChristianRock]

[eric]

I miss the days of having a space with different synths, guitars, amps, etc. laying around like this.

 

If this guy likes his Rhodes, why not buy him some FX to dress up the sound? If that does not work, get the confounded thing MIDI'd and then hook up all the Jupiters, Minimoogs and TB303s you can find in your space.

[terrellmiller]

He used to have an 88 key Yamaha synth. But he sold it because he wasn't playing in a band for a while. He basically quit music for a couple of years, but didn't sell the rhodes because he didn't think he could find a new one. Rhodes amp section has a problem that he needs to get fixed, but he hasn't gotten around to it mostly because the guy around here that fixes it needs to be gotten ahold of during weekdays between 10:00 and 4:00 and Zack works during that time (like we all do). So now, he's back playing music, needs some new sounds and doesn't have money, but also doesn't check resources like this, and isn't very gear savvy. Yeah, theres always more to the story, bubt it doesn't change the real need. I'll go to the space this weekend and dig around for synths. I know we have an old ensoniq somewhere in there as well as the Juno D (don't know where that is, but somebody has one), and the JX-10 which is visible. Theres also a microkorg in there, but Zack finds it hard to control and unpredictable (so do I) and he doesn't like the mini keys.

 

 

 

 

you do have a problem...but it's not an equipment problem.

 

This guy is your friend, there's good chemistry in the band and he has other definite pluses he brings to the group. He's part of your band, period.

 

But...he's shown over and over again that he just can't handle much more than an electric piano, and even has maintenance issues with that. I wouldn't try to push him any further, it very likely just won't work and may actually create needless friction within your band.

 

If he's living in CT (down real estate market in a state that's been losing population for years) and wants to sell his house there and move to Boston (*expensive* market), then he won't have any extra money for a long time. *If* he manages to sell his house, whatever cash flow that generates for him will get eaten by his new cost of living and the moving expenses. You haven't said what he does for a living, but unless he gets a hefty raise in Boston he's gonna be scraping for change. Maybe he can afford to get his Rhodes refurbed and buy a preamp for it, but probably not even that much.

 

If he's had a Motif or whatever in the past, and you've let him use some of the synths your band has lying around, and he recently got confused and bought a MIDI controller thinking it made sounds on its own...and he's still not up to speed, time to give it up. He adds a lot of value to the band just doing what he does, and that's very likely as good as it's ever gonna get.

 

So where does that leave you? The other guys obviously want more from the keyboard department, and the band needs to expand its palette to grow. So you can't just keep things the same as they currently are either.

 

A couple different things you could try would be to bring in an additional keyboardist to handle the synth parts, or to have the other band members double on synths every now and then.

 

I'd recommend the latter. You can probably count the number of successful bands with more than one keyboard player on one hand, and they tend to be bands like Tangerine Dream where long ago one of the guys won the ego battle and has kept the band going with a constant stream of hired guns. Doesn't sound like the road you want to head down. If he's intimidated just by a little MicroKorg, imagine how he's gonna react to another guy with a Mission Control keyboard rig. If you want to try this approach, I'd look for someone who will have great chemistry with the Rhodes guy and the rest of the band first, then focus on chops/tech skills second. Get a guy who will be happy to give your buddy lots of space, with the clear understanding that the new guy will be there strictly to add a few extras to the existing band, not to take over and be the new look-at-me keyboard god.

 

That's doable if you find just the right guy, but based on your experience with keyboard players so far, you haven't found any remote matches.

 

The second option is your best bet. You obviously have several different people within the band that have at least a basic level of comfort with synthesizers (else you wouldn't have so many lying around your rehearsal space). So use them. Figure out a setlist and arrangements that let you, or the bass player, or the drummer, or combinations thereof, plink around on your Juno D every now and then.

 

That takes the heat off the Rhodes guy. To salve his ego you could also make sure that he plays a prominent role in the songs where the other guys are using synthesizers. Maybe spin it that you want to use the new stuff to emphasize and counterpoint all the great stuff he's doing on that song, instead of making it look like the rest of the guys are having to do double duty to fill in the gaps he's not able to fill. If you handle it that way, you make use of what your band currently has (tech and personnel) with minimal extra expense, and you'd have a lot less chance of damaging the band's chemistry.

 

The only way I see to have the Rhodes guy learn any new tricks would be to break him in *very* gradually. If you can find a used Yamaha S80 or an Electro, you could set it up as just another standalone keyboard for him to switch off with his Rhodes, not as something he has to add on top of what he's currently doing.

 

The S80 has dedicated "category" buttons for piano, EP, organ, strings, synth, etc. on the front panel, so it would be pretty easy for him to learn to navigate. He'd like the piano action. It looks a lot more like a piano than a synth, the visual aspect would not intimidate him as much as a "real" synth.

 

Same goes for the Electro, and it's even more intuitive to use than the S80. He'd love the organ, clav and Wurly sounds, and he wouldn't have to be a synth-guy at all. If he had trouble learning how to save patches on the Electro, not the most intuitive thing to do, you could just show him how to navigate between the basic sounds and he could just flip to whatever he needed for each song. That's easy on an Electro, I've taught guys who only know a few words of English how to use an Electro five minutes before they went onstage, and they did fine. Or you could do some minimal programming for him and just put stick-on labels on the front panel showing which presets are what sounds.

 

To get more flexibility from the Rhodes, a simple phaser pedal that just has a couple knobs would do wonders. I would keep that down to an absolute minimum though, he doesn't sound like the type of guy who would be able to figure out that to get chorus but not overdrive on the next song, and then add in phase on the refrain, means you bypass this pedal and route this other one through the third...that's gonna be too much for him to manage, especially onstage.

 

So a couple different routes you could head down, but training this guy how to handle synthesizers just doesn't sound like it's in the cards, sorry.

 

HTH,

[rhat]

But...he's shown over and over again that he just can't handle much more than an electric piano

 

 

Alot depends on how well he handles that electric piano. More than one band has done well with just a old school guy that plays piano. One of the problems with keys is that guitar players expect you to be everything they are not..... they want a string , bitch , a horn bitch a synth bitch, and organ bitch etc. Some guys are just piano players. You cant always get what you want. You can if you are willing to pay pay pay..

[pogo97]

Sheesh, is it always this complicated?

[russ1974]

...but he hasn't gotten around to it mostly because the guy around here that fixes it needs to be gotten ahold of during weekdays between 10:00 and 4:00 and Zack works during that time...

Wow, that has to be the lamest excuse in the world ever I assume he doesn't have lunch breaks when he could make the 2 minute call, the engineer doesn't have one of these new fangled answerphone machines, nobody else on the planet can call on his behalf, etc etc.

From what I've seen, your keyboard player is a good friend, but;

- has broken equipment and can't be bothered making the effort to get it fixed
- wants extra sounds but can't be bothered doing a bit of research himself

If you want to "make it", the words "commitment & effort" spring to mind.

[I was The Funk]

you do have a problem...but it's not an equipment problem. This guy is your friend, there's good chemistry in the band and he has other definite pluses he brings to the group. He's part of your band, period. But...he's shown over and over again that he just can't handle much more than an electric piano, and even has maintenance issues with that. I wouldn't try to push him any further, it very likely just won't work and may actually create needless friction within your band. If he's living in CT (down real estate market in a state that's been losing population for years) and wants to sell his house there and move to Boston (*expensive* market), then he won't have any extra money for a long time. *If* he manages to sell his house, whatever cash flow that generates for him will get eaten by his new cost of living and the moving expenses. You haven't said what he does for a living, but unless he gets a hefty raise in Boston he's gonna be scraping for change. Maybe he can afford to get his Rhodes refurbed and buy a preamp for it, but probably not even that much. If he's had a Motif or whatever in the past, and you've let him use some of the synths your band has lying around, and he recently got confused and bought a MIDI controller thinking it made sounds on its own...and he's still not up to speed, time to give it up. He adds a lot of value to the band just doing what he does, and that's very likely as good as it's ever gonna get. So where does that leave you? The other guys obviously want more from the keyboard department, and the band needs to expand its palette to grow. So you can't just keep things the same as they currently are either. A couple different things you could try would be to bring in an additional keyboardist to handle the synth parts, or to have the other band members double on synths every now and then. I'd recommend the latter. You can probably count the number of successful bands with more than one keyboard player on one hand, and they tend to be bands like Tangerine Dream where long ago one of the guys won the ego battle and has kept the band going with a constant stream of hired guns. Doesn't sound like the road you want to head down. If he's intimidated just by a little MicroKorg, imagine how he's gonna react to another guy with a Mission Control keyboard rig. If you want to try this approach, I'd look for someone who will have great chemistry with the Rhodes guy and the rest of the band first, then focus on chops/tech skills second. Get a guy who will be happy to give your buddy lots of space, with the clear understanding that the new guy will be there strictly to add a few extras to the existing band, not to take over and be the new look-at-me keyboard god. That's doable if you find just the right guy, but based on your experience with keyboard players so far, you haven't found any remote matches. The second option is your best bet. You obviously have several different people within the band that have at least a basic level of comfort with synthesizers (else you wouldn't have so many lying around your rehearsal space). So use them. Figure out a setlist and arrangements that let you, or the bass player, or the drummer, or combinations thereof, plink around on your Juno D every now and then. That takes the heat off the Rhodes guy. To salve his ego you could also make sure that he plays a prominent role in the songs where the other guys are using synthesizers. Maybe spin it that you want to use the new stuff to emphasize and counterpoint all the great stuff he's doing on that song, instead of making it look like the rest of the guys are having to do double duty to fill in the gaps he's not able to fill. If you handle it that way, you make use of what your band currently has (tech and personnel) with minimal extra expense, and you'd have a lot less chance of damaging the band's chemistry. The only way I see to have the Rhodes guy learn any new tricks would be to break him in *very* gradually. If you can find a used Yamaha S80 or an Electro, you could set it up as just another standalone keyboard for him to switch off with his Rhodes, not as something he has to add on top of what he's currently doing. The S80 has dedicated "category" buttons for piano, EP, organ, strings, synth, etc. on the front panel, so it would be pretty easy for him to learn to navigate. He'd like the piano action. It looks a lot more like a piano than a synth, the visual aspect would not intimidate him as much as a "real" synth. Same goes for the Electro, and it's even more intuitive to use than the S80. He'd love the organ, clav and Wurly sounds, and he wouldn't have to be a synth-guy at all. If he had trouble learning how to save patches on the Electro, not the most intuitive thing to do, you could just show him how to navigate between the basic sounds and he could just flip to whatever he needed for each song. That's easy on an Electro, I've taught guys who only know a few words of English how to use an Electro five minutes before they went onstage, and they did fine. Or you could do some minimal programming for him and just put stick-on labels on the front panel showing which presets are what sounds. To get more flexibility from the Rhodes, a simple phaser pedal that just has a couple knobs would do wonders. I would keep that down to an absolute minimum though, he doesn't sound like the type of guy who would be able to figure out that to get chorus but not overdrive on the next song, and then add in phase on the refrain, means you bypass this pedal and route this other one through the third...that's gonna be too much for him to manage, especially onstage. So a couple different routes you could head down, but training this guy how to handle synthesizers just doesn't sound like it's in the cards, sorry. HTH,

 

 

 

This is probably the most realistic response to the queary yet. And we sort of have been doing some of this.

 

I have a Roland Gr-1 in my rig which goes through its own system, has its own effects board and everything. I use this to do textural stuff and some synthy leads while jamming. Problem is, I'm the lead guitarist too, so I can't handle lead guitar duties and synth duties at the same time. And I would rather not follow up a guitar lead with a synth lead with me playing both of them because thats just too much "me" and theres only so much improvising I can do in a stretch. After a 10-15 minute jam, I'm tapped out on guitar, and I WANT someone taking over on the lead. But right now the only voice Zack has is the rhodes, and it can get lost in the mix. The other guys need to be taking leads as well.

[rj.phila]

+1 on pedals for rhodes. you can make a rhodes sound like all kinds of cool {censored} thru pedals.

+1200000000 on FIXING THE RHODES. he plays in the middle register of the rhodes cause the rest is out of tune? are you serious?

any 9th grader can tune a rhodes. its so {censored}ing easy. spend 1hr on the net, get a flathead screwdriver, and just do it already!

his poor little fingers dont like synth keys? TOUGH TITTIES. i make my touring bandmatess play a microkorg-i do too-do you know how much it sucks playing those little keys? tough {censored}. we all hate it. it is what it is, its a 300 alternative to taking my prophet on tour, and honestly? (its reprogrammed) and it does GREAT. get over it, play the damn gig.

[niacin2.0]

The mentioned Rolands will need expansion boards to bring them up to scratch. I'd go for a Kurzweil ME-1. Alternately, program a clav patch on the nord lead and look out for a second organ module - EMU's B3, Hammond-Suzuki XM-1, or one of the Oberheims - the latter 2 have drawbars but the EMU sounds better to my ears. The rhodes will cover piano parts just fine.

[Dejavoodoo]

 

any 9th grader can tune a rhodes.

 

 

Well, no 9th grader that I've ever taught could, but point well made. Visit this site for videos, tools, and a link to download the manual. Start with video tutorials. I watched one of those, and I was able to fix a couple of bum notes on my Rhodes in no time flat. Saved me major bucks that would have been spent in the tech shop.

[The Pro]

There was this keyboard player I knew that carried around two obsolete heavy old keyboards and two semi-new light keyboards. His station wagon used to sag under the weight of the dinosaur keyboards, which sounded like crap anyway. The guy who hired this band asked me to talk to the keyboard guy because he'd already had a heart attack and the band stopped helping him with his gear because they'd told him over and over to lighten his gear and he wouldn't listen.

 

So I talked to dinosaur keyguy and told him he could cover the same territory with his light keys and leave the heavy gear at home - I even offered to help show him how - but he was set in his ways and even if noone helped him with his old rig (up and down stairs too) he wouldn't change.

 

And within a few months of that conversation he died. He became the second keyboard player I know personally to have died of heart failure due to gear... the other guy died right after lifting some heavy speakers onto poles by himself.

 

Some bands love their keyboard players to death. The reason I put this story here is to say that it pays to lighten up and modernize your rig along with keeping your band's team spirit.

[coyote-1]

So... y'all stopped helping him with the heavy gear and then he died because he was moving it alone?
[guilt]Seems y'all don't quite know what team spirit really means.....[/guilt]

There was this keyboard player I knew that carried around two obsolete heavy old keyboards and two semi-new light keyboards. His station wagon used to sag under the weight of the dinosaur keyboards, which sounded like crap anyway. The guy who hired this band asked me to talk to the keyboard guy because he'd already had a heart attack and the band stopped helping him with his gear because they'd told him over and over to lighten his gear and he wouldn't listen. So I talked to dinosaur keyguy and told him he could cover the same territory with his light keys and leave the heavy gear at home - I even offered to help show him how - but he was set in his ways and even if noone helped him with his old rig (up and down stairs too) he wouldn't change. And within a few months of that conversation he died. He became the second keyboard player I know personally to have died of heart failure due to gear... the other guy died right after lifting some heavy speakers onto poles by himself. Some bands love their keyboard players to death. The reason I put this story here is to say that it pays to lighten up and modernize your rig along with keeping your band's team spirit.