Members urbanscallywag Posted June 12, 2008 Members Share Posted June 12, 2008 One of these samples of 16th note high hats has 0.2742ms jitter, the other 1.0561ms of jitter. Can you tell which is which just by listening? Both are mono waves. Sample 1: http://homepage.mac.com/nicksdsu/synths/2008.06.11/mystery1.wav Sample 2: http://homepage.mac.com/nicksdsu/synths/2008.06.11/mystery2.wav Reference thread: http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?t=2006049 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pogo97 Posted June 12, 2008 Members Share Posted June 12, 2008 my ears say mystery2 has more jitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members donaldcrunk Posted June 12, 2008 Members Share Posted June 12, 2008 i can't count that fast. can you stick a control in there (i.e. a snare with .2 ms of 'jitter' on both tracks) - that would make it a great deal easier i suspect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members urbanscallywag Posted June 12, 2008 Author Members Share Posted June 12, 2008 HMMM, ok you got it square I'll make some additional samples. Weee the non-musician in me shines through! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members urbanscallywag Posted June 12, 2008 Author Members Share Posted June 12, 2008 OK the sounds and levels are slightly different on these two samples so they can't be compared directly to the first set, but they are in the same order as far as jitter is concerned. Although I can't measure it anymore (or didn't try) the snare probably added some jitter to the "lower jitter" sample. Sample 3:http://homepage.mac.com/nicksdsu/synths/2008.06.11/mystery3.wav Sample 4:http://homepage.mac.com/nicksdsu/synths/2008.06.11/mystery4.wav I get the feeling I'm going to have to add some samples of 2ms and 3ms of jitter to make things more interesting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members urbanscallywag Posted June 12, 2008 Author Members Share Posted June 12, 2008 square: this is 16ths at 120bpm. Would a slower tempo or quarter notes work better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members asynchro_nous Posted June 12, 2008 Members Share Posted June 12, 2008 2 sounds more jittery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members donaldcrunk Posted June 12, 2008 Members Share Posted June 12, 2008 hello let me listen to this when i'm not drunk off my ass i'll give you a report tomorrow when i get dem hihatz bumpin thru STUDIO MONITORZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wetwareinterface Posted June 12, 2008 Members Share Posted June 12, 2008 i listened to the originals and mystery 1 has a bit of squidge in the beginning of each hit that 2 is lacking. the thing is without the original non jittered sample it's impossible to know if the more squidge is what's supposed to be there or mystery 2 is the accurate file and the squidge is introduced by jitter. so if the original had a slight ramping issue in the filter or amp section then mystery 1 is the lower jitter sample.if the original sounds closer to mystery 2 then the mystery 1 sample has more jitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 I here a little phasing and/or jitter in the mystery wav 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sleepykeith Posted June 12, 2008 Members Share Posted June 12, 2008 i hear more jitter in #2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members urbanscallywag Posted June 12, 2008 Author Members Share Posted June 12, 2008 I can try a 0 jitter sample today by using an isolated high hat sample and sequencing it in software, then bouncing to disk. The original samples are done with hardware, so the "less jittery" sample is as good as it gets with that particular piece of kit. The particular device has the lowest "single track" jitter out of anything in my studio (have to try the MC-909 today), so the only way to do better is rendering the loop offline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members urbanscallywag Posted June 13, 2008 Author Members Share Posted June 13, 2008 I at least need square's reply before I give the answer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kvmoore Posted June 14, 2008 Members Share Posted June 14, 2008 hellolet me listen to this when i'm not drunk off my ass i'll give you a report tomorrow when i get dem hihatz bumpin thru STUDIO MONITORZ Haha. Hihatz bumpin thru STUDIO MONITORZ. Hahaha. That's a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members donaldcrunk Posted June 14, 2008 Members Share Posted June 14, 2008 sample 4!? sorry it took so long ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members shaft9000 Posted June 16, 2008 Members Share Posted June 16, 2008 the 1st example in each set exhibits more jitter...quite clearly imho this is a great thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members urbanscallywag Posted June 16, 2008 Author Members Share Posted June 16, 2008 Answer below in white. Highlight the text to read it! Congratulations those of you who guessed samples 1 and 3 as the jittery-er clips! Though I have to admit its somewhat disappointing to see that some of you can hear the 0.75ms difference in jitter (it wasn't a blind test for me, but I think I hear a difference). The clips were generated with a Korg ER-1. When sequencing 1 track, it has the lowest jitter of anything in my studio (save for rendered loops in software which are jitter free). However, when other tracks in the machine are sequenced, the jitter goes up significantly. Adding 8 tracks of typical drum sequencing to the 16th note high hats raised the jitter from 0.2742ms to 1.0561ms. And apparently its an audible difference. I've been testing sequencer jitter using hardware sequencing itself, the same hardware synced to stable and not-so stable clocks, and software on various OSs. I have a lot of interesting data to share, but I do have quite a bit of writing to do. Some of the information is disappointing, the amount of jitter in some supposedly high-end drum machines. But then again people have been making music with all of these gear for years, so maybe jitter isn't that bad after all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members shaft9000 Posted June 16, 2008 Members Share Posted June 16, 2008 I've been testing sequencer jitter using hardware sequencing itself, the same hardware synced to stable and not-so stable clocks, and software on various OSs. I have a lot of interesting data to share, but I do have quite a bit of writing to do. this is very intriguing stuff .... please do share. i've always favored hardware over Windows & Mac for sequencing due to the problems created by non real-time OS limits (i.e.= IRQs of old, USBs of late). I haven't noticed my EMX or ESX jitter outright, but then when summing thru just L/R outs it can turn the sound to crap if not carefully orchestrated.Among MIDI devices the tightest sequencer i know is the FR Mobius, but should be since it's only 1 track! i wonder if jitter is directly related to the OS or if it's mostly MIDI's "fault", or a combo of both... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members urbanscallywag Posted June 16, 2008 Author Members Share Posted June 16, 2008 Its not only OS dependent but also dependent on the actual MIDI sequencer. I tested Ableton Live and Cubase on the same machine and got a significant difference in jitter (I can't remember the actual numbers). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members donaldcrunk Posted June 16, 2008 Members Share Posted June 16, 2008 OH MAN I WAS JUST TESTING YOU GUYS I KNEW ALL ALONG just kidding. i had no idea. i don't have nearly a good enough ear for that, i play sloppy enough as it is. some of you dudes must have robots that live in your head! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ElectricPuppy Posted June 16, 2008 Members Share Posted June 16, 2008 Honestly, I can't hear the difference. Serwiously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members urbanscallywag Posted June 17, 2008 Author Members Share Posted June 17, 2008 I'll have more samples up when I do my final writeup. Hmmm, maybe I should cookup something to make samples with 1, 2, 3, 4ms... jitter so that people can vote or gauge how much jitter is audible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 Somtimes it helps to listen to only one speaker at a time. Other times the mono switch can be your friend. *My first post and answer should say hear and not here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members donaldcrunk Posted June 17, 2008 Members Share Posted June 17, 2008 burster, your avatar only reinforces my notion that anyone that can hear this is a robot with a brain made out of lasers... just kidding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members urbanscallywag Posted June 17, 2008 Author Members Share Posted June 17, 2008 Haha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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