Members Yoozer Posted October 18, 2008 Members Share Posted October 18, 2008 PhoMo? Pho'Sho! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members urbanscallywag Posted October 18, 2008 Members Share Posted October 18, 2008 It would be interesting though if you really could discern between a sound with real phase synced subosc and a sound with emulated subosc OK now I'm going to have to post samples, its not hard to hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members urbanscallywag Posted October 18, 2008 Members Share Posted October 18, 2008 And sync tricks (which would provide the same effect as a flip flop sub oscillator) have to be performed within a single voice. So you can make a Prophet08 have a main oscillator and sub oscillator within a voice, and stack them as you please for multiple "main" oscillators, but each set of main and sub oscillator would be in different voices with seperate VCF/VCA etc. That's not to say cool tricks can't be played with the Prophet08 stack and unison modes (like many other multi-timbral synths). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Palaver Posted October 18, 2008 Author Members Share Posted October 18, 2008 I love how my seemingly idiotic babble made for quite an interesting read. Thanks for the info guys! It looks like I will end up grabbing a P'08 rack unit at some point in time in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members urbanscallywag Posted October 18, 2008 Members Share Posted October 18, 2008 Audio sample. In phase (flip flop derived suboscillator) left. Random phase 2nd oscillator tuned 1 octave down right. http://homepage.mac.com/nicksdsu/synths/subosc/suboscstereo.wav Nord Modular G2 demo test patch: Fourier spectrum of both oscillators superimposed (darker is in phase, lighter is random phase): The random phase suboscillator sounds like it has a subtle chorus or other modulation effect. The flip flop suboscillator sounds much more sterile. The two waveforms have different amplitudes even though they are summed identically. I believe this is due to constructive/destructive addition of frequency components. The fundamental is around 164Hz. The harmonics look to be in very similar ratios, but it looks like there is more energy between harmonics in the random phase example. This might just be an effect of windowing and a small transform, I will have to look into it more. Or else it could have to do with phase of the input waveform. Another thing I have to look into is a possible DC bias from the flip flop in the Nord Modular G2. I don't anticipate it changing the test much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Synthmatic Posted October 18, 2008 Members Share Posted October 18, 2008 AFAIK, unlike the Evolver, there is no poly chain function on the Mopho. I did not see it in the manual. Can anybody confirm this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DocT Posted October 18, 2008 Members Share Posted October 18, 2008 Can anybody confirm this. Yes, no poly chain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members urbanscallywag Posted October 19, 2008 Members Share Posted October 19, 2008 No comments on plots or audio, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Palaver Posted October 19, 2008 Author Members Share Posted October 19, 2008 No comments on plots or audio, eh? Great plots, and a great demo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members urbanscallywag Posted October 19, 2008 Members Share Posted October 19, 2008 Thank you. But do you hear the difference? Its not night and day but its obviously different...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kaux Posted October 20, 2008 Members Share Posted October 20, 2008 how about a 2 or 3 octave poly-mopho keyboard, with 4 voice poly, at around $1000-$1200...? woudl be different enough... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kayvon Posted October 21, 2008 Members Share Posted October 21, 2008 Thank you. But do you hear the difference? Its not night and day but its obviously different...? Yeah, it's pretty clear to my ears. The octave layered example gives a sound that I sometimes found annoying when playing octaves on a poly synth with the filter wide open. Useable and cool in its own right but I've tweaked that out in the past by using stretch tuning in Tassman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kooki_sf Posted October 22, 2008 Members Share Posted October 22, 2008 Yes, no poly chain. but poly-chaining w/ software instead is painfully simple.. and you could still hook em up in a midi-thru chain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members urbanscallywag Posted October 22, 2008 Members Share Posted October 22, 2008 Yeah, it's pretty clear to my ears. The octave layered example gives a sound that I sometimes found annoying when playing octaves on a poly synth with the filter wide open. Useable and cool in its own right but I've tweaked that out in the past by using stretch tuning in Tassman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChristianRock Posted October 22, 2008 Members Share Posted October 22, 2008 If they released a Prophet'08 with nothing added other than the sub-oscillators, I'd bet it would still be a hit.Maybe they could tweak the filters some, too, to give them more of a sweet spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kpatz Posted October 22, 2008 Members Share Posted October 22, 2008 Here's an idea I thought of... DSI could release a keyboard controller that has docking bays for MoPhos, maybe 2 or 4 of them. Plug one MoPho in and you have a mono synth. Plug in more for added polyphony. It could have a set of knobs to make programming easier, and the ability to clone settings into all the MoPhos so all the voices match. Or you could program them independently a la Oberheim 4-voice. The controller could handle the poly-chaining, unison-ing, splits, layers, etc. And when you want to use your MoPho(s) as modules, just pop them out of the bays. Maybe they could also release MiniPhos, smaller MoPhos with no knobs and a docking connector, that could be docked into the controller like an iPod, or MIDIed to a regular MoPho or P'08 for programming, like a voice expander. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Yoozer Posted October 22, 2008 Members Share Posted October 22, 2008 Here's an idea I thought of... In theory, it's fine. In practice, nobody except for some slightly insane people will buy this, since by spending a bit more they can have a P'08 rack. Back in the day of the OB this was necessary - now, not really. It's just that multitracking appears to have become a lost art. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kayvon Posted October 22, 2008 Members Share Posted October 22, 2008 I've attached an mp3 with one channel having a sawtooth simply layered an octave above a square wave and the other using the sync method LWG mentioned earlier on. This basically involved sync-ing two oscillators and tuning the sync-ed oscillator to an octave above plus a little fine tuning to get a more perfect sawtooth sound. Both examples start off with the basic sawtooth & then the "sub"-oscillator fades in around the start of the third bar. I tried to match the levels as good as possible but sometimes the layered oscs drifted a little so that affected the volume. Would anyone like to take a guess which is which? UrbanScallywag? MuzikB? Sizzlemeister? I have to say that the sync trick to get a sub oscillator worked pretty well and I may have to agree with DocT that it'd be pretty hard to tell the difference between this method and a flip-flop sub-osc. However you can bear in mind that the sync method skews the sync-ed oscillators waveform slightly so you may get a different sound. The good thing about the sync method is that your "sub-oscillator" can be any waveform your synth can produce, in my ATC-1's case you can have tri, saw and square waveforms at the same time. One interesting thing happened when I was programming the layered oscs example and that was that the oscs sometimes actually locked together on held notes and there was no audible phasing. So any guesses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members urbanscallywag Posted October 22, 2008 Members Share Posted October 22, 2008 A sync method doesn't allow you to adjust 2 oscillators'es'ses pitches (and their respective sub oscillators) at once, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members urbanscallywag Posted October 22, 2008 Members Share Posted October 22, 2008 I think I thought the sync trick would work...somewhere up there but with the limitations of basically losing an oscillator. I think the right channel sounds "harder"...I'm not quite ready to state what that means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members urbanscallywag Posted October 22, 2008 Members Share Posted October 22, 2008 Shows the difference between the left and right channel in kayvon's mp3. Only did an analysis on the first few notes. I think the smaller signal (it was below the green line) is the right channel and the larger signal is the left channel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members urbanscallywag Posted October 22, 2008 Members Share Posted October 22, 2008 I was just about to leave when I observed the left and right channels are out of phase. To verify I zoomed in and saw the time domain waveforms don't look too similar. The right channel looks like it has a lot more high frequency content, but I bet its probably just out of phase judging by the spectrum... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kayvon Posted October 23, 2008 Members Share Posted October 23, 2008 Ahh, sorry scally, the two channels were recorded separately and I faded in the "sub"-oscillators manually so yes they'll definitely be out of phase. One also has more dc offset than the other for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members xpander Posted October 23, 2008 Members Share Posted October 23, 2008 looks more like ph? to me. for shame those who this think this rhymes with foe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members urbanscallywag Posted October 23, 2008 Members Share Posted October 23, 2008 I can't type your international delight characters on my keymakaboard. But obviously you caught my drift, so never mind. I am from southern California, I have been educated in the areas of pho (kin') pronunciation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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