Members ambient Posted June 9, 2011 Members Share Posted June 9, 2011 OT/tl;dr/:freak: content follows. So I think I understand the theory/mechanism of evolution in such that mutations which are beneficial to procreation are passed on and you eventually get to humans. And I believe it to be true. What I'm struggling with is why I am here experiencing life through this body and through my eyes so to speak. I can grasp Darwinian evolution producing an animal that responds to external stimuli in a way that 'attempts' to guarantee the survival of itself and it's offspring. But why should that (or we) be anything more than an automaton? Why is there considered to be a consciousness in humans? Of course there would be no measurable way to know if anyone else but myself is anything more than a product of heredity and behaviorism as governed by the brain as it's evolved. So how does all this come about? Language? Is language what is necessary for true conscious thought? I mean, if we had no language I'm not sure the internal dialogue, the thought process that we all take for granted would even be possible. Would we all just operate purely on instinct and learned behaviours/habits? I don't know about you, but I usually 'think' in English - lately a bit of Japanese has made it's way into my thoughts too. If this is true and language IS a requirement for conscious thought; is this conscious thought what is responsible for our entire consciousness and the way we can actually experience our lives?If so, does this mean animals (without language) are not 'conscious' and 'alive' in the same way we consider ourselves to be? How about babies that do not yet grasp a language? Is this why a can't remember a time before I could speak/think because I wasn't truly alive yet? I'm aware I'm basically vomiting unorganised thoughts into a post here, but do you have any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ambient Posted June 9, 2011 Author Members Share Posted June 9, 2011 Where's Agreed when you need him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members less_cunning Posted June 9, 2011 Members Share Posted June 9, 2011 God has a plan for you bro. accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior & stop wasting my time w/ these silly existential questions of being and nothingness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ambient Posted June 9, 2011 Author Members Share Posted June 9, 2011 God has a plan for you bro. accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior & stop wasting my time w/ these silly existential questions of being and nothingness. What a cop-out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EvilSoup Posted June 9, 2011 Members Share Posted June 9, 2011 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consciousness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members less_cunning Posted June 9, 2011 Members Share Posted June 9, 2011 OT/tl;dr/:freak: content follows.What I'm struggling with is why I am here experiencing life through this body and through my eyes so to speak. I can grasp Darwinian evolution producing an animal that responds to external stimuli in a way that 'attempts' to guarantee the survival of itself and it's offspring. you are supposed to BBQ animals & then EAT them. i will say this about anglo-american cultural hegemony. i do apologize for that. sorry bro. i hope that one day you can re-embrace the Dao of Japanese into your thoughts & interpersonal exchanges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ambient Posted June 9, 2011 Author Members Share Posted June 9, 2011 I don't know why it bugs me so much that I don't understand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ATauO Posted June 9, 2011 Members Share Posted June 9, 2011 Your first fallacy is you assume all language is in a spoken word format. Language is the ability to put meaning behind something and express that idea to yourself and others. That's why back in the day all there was were drawings and symbols. Even without a meaning being applied to something, logically you dicern differences in matter and remember. Your second fallacy is you assumed we are done evolving, considering it took hundreds of years before we developed a spoken language, whose to say we are at 100% of potential. 600 years from now we will be considered no better than a caveman who just discovered fire. Time is relative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EvilSoup Posted June 9, 2011 Members Share Posted June 9, 2011 I don't know why it bugs me so much that I don't understand No one has all the answers, and the people/religions that claim to are mistaken. It's better to recognize what you don't know and let it be, rather than clinging to a false answer out of some misguided attempt to know everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members placebo62 Posted June 9, 2011 Members Share Posted June 9, 2011 Cats have souls too bro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ambient Posted June 9, 2011 Author Members Share Posted June 9, 2011 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consciousness Perhaps 'consciousness', by some definitions, is not the right word. I mean any observable behaviour exhibited by animals or humans could potentially be down to a biological super-computer within a biological robot. There is no way of knowing that anyone other than myself is actually 'there' (for want of a better term). The fact that I am looking out through my eyes blows me away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cassette Posted June 9, 2011 Members Share Posted June 9, 2011 Cats have souls too bro then why don't they go to heaven? All dogs go to heaven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ambient Posted June 9, 2011 Author Members Share Posted June 9, 2011 Your first fallacy is you assume all language is in a spoken word format. Language is the ability to put meaning behind something and express that idea to yourself and others. That's why back in the day all there was were drawings and symbols. Even without a meaning being applied to something, logically you dicern differences in matter and remember. Your second fallacy is you assumed we are done evolving, considering it took hundreds of years before we developed a spoken language, whose to say we are at 100% of potential. 600 years from now we will be considered no better than a caveman who just discovered fire. Time is relative. I haven't assumed either of those things. A deaf person still has a concept of language, perhaps gorillas that have been taught hand signals do too. Whales, birds, I have no idea. With evolution, of course that is never ending and there is no 'intent'. I suspect we'll probably breed ourselves to be stupider. The smart/ambitious ones are not generally the those with 3 kids by 21 (not making any value judgments on people's life choices here). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ambient Posted June 9, 2011 Author Members Share Posted June 9, 2011 Cats have souls too bro Evil though they are. But 'soul' implies something that outlasts the death of the body, there's obviously no way to measure/observe that either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jenesis Posted June 9, 2011 Members Share Posted June 9, 2011 I thinks, therefore I is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members meelosh123 Posted June 9, 2011 Members Share Posted June 9, 2011 Animals do use language, they bark and growl and tweet and use body language. I agree that language might be the most important thing in the world, ya know, for expressing ideas to/within yourself and to others. You sound interested in this and should consider studying it in a legit fashion in order to help you understand it, and also to help you write stuff that makes more sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pewtershmit Posted June 9, 2011 Members Share Posted June 9, 2011 I'll admit, I came. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ambient Posted June 9, 2011 Author Members Share Posted June 9, 2011 I thinks, therefore I is. Yea but what does it mean to think? Does a computer think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ambient Posted June 9, 2011 Author Members Share Posted June 9, 2011 I'll admit, I came. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members placebo62 Posted June 9, 2011 Members Share Posted June 9, 2011 Cats go to heaven dude Fact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ambient Posted June 9, 2011 Author Members Share Posted June 9, 2011 You sound interested in this and should consider studying it in a legit fashion in order to help you understand it, and also to help you write stuff that makes more sense. I am, any suggestions? I know there's philosophy, but how about the sciences? Quantum physics even? A lot of that stuff seems to deal with the nature of reality/existence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SnorkelMonkey Posted June 9, 2011 Members Share Posted June 9, 2011 you have no soul because ray charles stole it all before he checked out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members less_cunning Posted June 9, 2011 Members Share Posted June 9, 2011 Why is the sky blue? Why is water wet? / Why did Judas rat to Romans while Jesus slept? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 9520575 Posted June 9, 2011 Members Share Posted June 9, 2011 Noam chomsky my friend. Language is hard wired into the human brain. It isnt learned (sort of) Ever read about people being kept in isolation chambers? They go nuts. Its been done with babies, language and human interaction is key to mental development. ...I'm on my phone typing stinks but look up chomsky on language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ambient Posted June 9, 2011 Author Members Share Posted June 9, 2011 Why is the sky blue? Why is water wet? / Why did Judas rat to Romans while Jesus slept? The first two are pretty easily explained by anyone a high-school education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.