Fretlight guitars or light makers to show you key/scales on guitar

[Walters9515]

 

WRONG! Complex Songs still have keys and tonal centers. That's where the importance of a key signature comes into play. Borrowed chords and tonicizations will not deter from the tonal center.

 

 

1.) Key Signatures are for simple basic songs, If you have borrowed chords, tonicizations, enharmonic subs chords, slash chords it changes the Melody to have altered notes which will be chromatic to the key signature.

 

With that being said the key signature has be modified and altered so its not a basic KEY anymore

 

How can you say a song is in the key of C and the key signature is C when you have a bunch of borrowed chords, tonicizations, enharmonic subs chords, slash chords?

 

The Key signature of C has no sharps of flats in it but if you have chords or harmonys or a melody with sharps of flats its on in the key of C so key signatures are for basic songs and they are thrown out the window in POP music,

 

**Key signatures have no relation at all to the chord changes**

 

I don't even look at Key Signatures because they mean nothing

 

If the song is written in C major and the key signature is in C

but has a bunch of sharps and flats in the melody through the song

the key signature means nothing

 

 

Also, if you have a B minor chord, that doesnt mean you can borrow B modes from ANY key, you can ONLY use the ones that will work in that moment in time.

 

 

2.) Yes true, you have to pick your options that will work

 

And why won't they all work? it's because of the chords BEFORE AND AFTER

 

The Chords BEFORE tell you what key/mode you're in and the Chord AFTER tells you if you that chord before it is a pivot chord or not

 

B minor & Cb minor are not the same even tho they are spelled the same

Enharmonic Examples:

1.) The V of B minor is not the same as V of Cb minor

2.) The Modes that you can borrow from B minor are not the same as borrowing modes from Cb minor

[arcaneaether]

 

1.) Key Signatures are for simple basic songs, If you have borrowed chords, tonicizations, enharmonic subs chords, slash chords it changes the Melody to have altered notes which will be chromatic to the key signature. With that being said the key signature has be modified and altered so its not a basic KEY anymore How can you say a song is in the key of C and the key signature is C when you have a bunch of borrowed chords, tonicizations, enharmonic subs chords, slash chords? The Key signature of C has no sharps of flats in it but if you have chords or harmonys or a melody with sharps of flats its on in the key of C so key signatures are for basic songs and they are thrown out the window in POP music, **Key signatures have no relation at all to the chord changes** I don't even look at Key Signatures because they mean nothing If the song is written in C major and the key signature is in C but has a bunch of sharps and flats in the melody through the song the key signature means nothing 2.) Yes true, you have to pick your options that will work And why won't they all work? it's because of the chords BEFORE AND AFTER The Chords BEFORE tell you what key/mode you're in and the Chord AFTER tells you if you that chord before it is a pivot chord or not B minor & Cb minor are not the same even tho they are spelled the same Enharmonic Examples: 1.) The V of B minor is not the same as V of Cb minor 2.) The Modes that you can borrow from B minor are not the same as borrowing modes from Cb minor

 

 

The V of B minor is F# minor. The V of Cb minor is Gb minor. Enharmonic bro.

 

Also, are you familar at all with the concept of chromaticism? Yes, pop songs don't use conventional tonality in a way because they are poorly written (most of the time) - only really going on how one chord sounds after another, with no sense of thematic material or flow.

 

Go on. School me

[Walters9515]

 

The V of B minor is F# minor. The V of Cb minor is Gb minor. Enharmonic bro.

 

 

1.) The Key of B minor is different than the key of Cb minor, because you can enharmonically spell the chords in each key different enhamonically and use them as pivot chords, subs chords, borrowed chords, slash chords, inversion chords, etc.

 

The are in different chord family's read the Dick Grove jazz book

 

It's like having Nick names that different circle of friends call you from Also know as

 

If you add either one or more of the 7th, 9th, 11th, 13th to these chords and spell them enharmonically you have endless relationships

 

So they are not the same even tho you think they are

 

Enharmonic modes and Enharmonic inversions

[c+t in b]

 

B minor & Cb minor are not the same even tho they are spelled the same Enharmonic Examples: 1.) The V of B minor is not the same as V of Cb minor 2.) The Modes that you can borrow from B minor are not the same as borrowing modes from Cb minor

 

 

This is all technically correct. They can be used differently. However, the asinine progression you displayed earlier used the same chord twice, but spelled different each time, of which there is no use for in notation, unless the piece of music is shifting towards another key/substitution

[tim gueguen]

Guys, you seem to have forgotten who this is. It's Walters. The guy is either completely clueless or a giant troll. Or both.

[ambient]

So....how are LEDs in the fretboard supposed to help with all this?

[THeLoveGun]

you might as well stick with RockBand/GH if you want to follow lights.
I had them "follow the light" type of keyboard when I was like 7-8.

what scale? whole tones man. stick with that, you'll understand the design of your guitar.

on a more serious note, hum. play. hum a melody, then play it.

[juri]

http://www.amazon.com/Fretboard-Logic-SE-Reasoning-Arpeggios/dp/0962477060

[Walters9515]

 

a key signature is required for any piece of written music, except for atonal or serial pieces. Even then, the key signature is C Major. Borrowed chords are notated with accidentals.

 

 

1.) Yes, that's how I write my notation is without a key signature and just add the accidentals because it's easier to read without looking back at the key signature, plus I don't believe a song with borrowed chords has a key signature because there is accidentals added means it's not that key anymore.

 

I look at keys like a real key to a door

And I look at accidentals like someone has changed the shape of that key

will it still open the same door again? NO

 

 

key signatures give you the gravity of the piece. Most intricate pieces of music use accidentals and their key signatures still specify where the gravity of the piece lies.

 

 

2.) Yes True , it's the starting point and want's to go back to that point or pulling it to it.

that's just basic resolution

 

**But my main points if you have accidentals is it really the same key as it was before?

 

If you started with key signature with C and you have accidentals in the song to me it's not in the key of C because it has been modified with accidentals

 

If you write down the accidentals and look back and erase or add them in the key signature you will have a new key in the key signature so it's not C anymore

 

Accidentals Modify the basic keys into modify keys

because it's not the same key as before

[c+t in b]

then you're an idiot who doesn't know the difference between a key and a scale. end of discussion.

[Walters9515]

It was your choice to go into my thread topic

 

I don't go into yours and insult you

 

Since it's not written in a book you can't break the rules or think outside the box

 

Western music has to many stupid rules that are ment for only western music not for today's music so it's apples and oranges

 

Go insult you students since you think you know it all

[c+t in b]

it's written in many theory books! probably all of them! it's the basis of western harmony which is the same as 'today's music'!

[n9ne]

Look, guys.....it's obvious that Walters' musicality has ascended to a plane we could never possibly hope to even comprehend, much less achieve.

And when you've reached such an impossibly complex state of musicality....sometimes it's best to just let it all go and follow the dots.

Forget about keys, scales, modes, tone, and all that other rubbish.


Believe in the dots.

[Walters9515]

It's up to the composer if he wants to use the rules or make his own or breaks them

 

You do it your way and I do it my way neither is the right or wrong way

 

It's just two different beliefs

[c+t in b]

yes but the composers who break the conventional notions of theory, usually have a firm grasp on them to begin with.

 

you came in here, asking for advice on how to play over changes which you were previously unaware of. Rather than learning how to do it, you instead sought ought a way for an led system to highlight all of the available notes to play on the fretboard, like a video game. Now all of a sudden you're going to reinvent the wheel? that's pretty doubtful for someone who can't understand a simple pop song

[scolfax]

Holy...

 

 

 

Cow.

 

 

 

"Enharmonic bro" indeed

[Walters9515]

You're the one that made up that conclusion

 

I never said I was right about anything it's just my beliefs of my music theory which i have

 

I could careless if anyone in here or outside of here thinks about my beliefs or what kind of music theory i have who really cares

 

You're been a teacher to long and been reading the same books to long to know, think or have your OWN beliefs about music theory

 

Keep staying in the same small box since it is the only way it works

 

It's the only way it work

[c+t in b]

lol. then why do you keep posting about it? you came in here asking questions that you didn't want answers too? did you just want everyone to agree with you?

[Walters9515]

I was looking for a fret board system that would show me scales and modes

So i can jam on stage playing to cover songs

 

And To get some rule to thumbs how to improvise over chord progressions using borrowed chords and cover songs

[c+t in b]

I'm pretty sure that there is a system for that. It's called YOUR BRAIN.

 

I'm sorry but everyone in this thread tried to give you information on that. In the end, you basically chose to ignore it.

[Bradino]

 

Just learn the theory. It's not too hard, and is very rewarding. Also, Cb = B

 

 

yes. all this. buy a book. read it. thank us later.

 

EDIT: Didn't read the whole thread. But let me say this, a song is always in a key. An accidental or borrowed chord does not change the key. Hence "borrowed" and/or "accidental". It all goes back to the leading tone as well. Pop music doesn't have that many borrowed chords or accidentals that it would make that much of a difference anyways. There's occasionally a maj2 or a flat6 or flat7 but that's really all that gets used. If there's more it's probably a better chance that the song is written in a mode. If you got examples of Pop songs with that many borrowed chords then show us. I'd be intrigued to hear this. Honestly.

 

There is such a thing as a key change, however. And that is completely different. These are part of the rules of theory.

[Walters9515]

Do you make more than a million dollars a year?

 

Since you all have a BRAIN?

 

I bet you don't even make close to $40,000 a year

 

But that's right you're smart

[c+t in b]

http://www.news.com.au/top-stories/intelligence-not-linked-to-wealth-study-shows/story-e6frfkp9-1111113408539

[Bradino]

[Walters9515]

keep telling yourself that, it's a nice fishbowl you live in