Members augerinn Posted March 8, 2009 Members Share Posted March 8, 2009 Is there any benifit to having two TX-81Zs ? Plaid_EMU sold me his via E-bay (I bought it on a whim) and now I have 2. I'm considering flipping both and getting a TX802. Thoughts ? Suggestions ? Ideas ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Yoozer Posted March 8, 2009 Members Share Posted March 8, 2009 The 802 wouldn't have the extra waveforms the 81Z has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flat earth Posted March 8, 2009 Members Share Posted March 8, 2009 Id keep one. Theres something about those digitally noisy 4 op sounds that was missing in the later 6 op DX family tree. My old DX7IID, as good as i was, never could quite re-create those lovely tight noisy bass sounds i got on a DX9. You heard it alot in those old Bronski Beat tracks. Im not quite sure how close the TX81Z is to the DX9, as it came out a bit later, but my DX100 sure brought back the memories Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members plaid_emu Posted March 8, 2009 Members Share Posted March 8, 2009 Thoughts ? Suggestions ? Ideas ? Forget Dueling Banjos! That's soooo 1972. Dueling TX81Zs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flowthrough Posted March 8, 2009 Members Share Posted March 8, 2009 yes- keep one TX81z .. and get a TX802 to go with it.The 802 is inexpensive these days- and well worth the price. The TX81z has the 12bit grit... and extra waveforms..The 802 will give you 6 operator 16 bit sound.. and therefore, the best of both FM box characters.I have both- and use them both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members triton76 Posted March 8, 2009 Members Share Posted March 8, 2009 the advantage to having two Tx81z is you can double your polyphony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wildpaws Posted March 9, 2009 Members Share Posted March 9, 2009 Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt, sold them both. Forget the TX802, go for a TG77 or a pair of TG77s, you'll have the selectable waveforms that someone said were lacking on the TX802 (and they are, had a TX802, sold it too). Having owned, used, and programmed a variety of Yamaha FM in both 4op (FB01, DX21, TX81z) and 6op (DX7IIFD, TX802, SY77, SY99)configurations, I'm of the opinion that the TG77/SY77/SY99 were the ultimate FM machines that Yamaha ever produced with the exception of the FS1r. A bonus of the TG77/SY77,99 series is that they have AWM in addition to the FM.Clyde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flowthrough Posted March 9, 2009 Members Share Posted March 9, 2009 Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt, sold them both. Forget the TX802, go for a TG77 or a pair of TG77s, you'll have the selectable waveforms that someone said were lacking on the TX802 (and they are, had a TX802, sold it too). Having owned, used, and programmed a variety of Yamaha FM in both 4op (FB01, DX21, TX81z) and 6op (DX7IIFD, TX802, SY77, SY99)configurations, I'm of the opinion that the TG77/SY77/SY99 were the ultimate FM machines that Yamaha ever produced with the exception of the FS1r. A bonus of the TG77/SY77,99 series is that they have AWM in addition to the FM.Clyde Been there done that (SY77).If you are spending more than a TX802 costs (i.e. a TG77)- forget it- get a DX200. (The samples in the TG77 aren't that great.)The effects section in the DX200 is nicer than the TG77(which has an old SPX90II- kinda noisy) - and you have excellent knob control over the most used parameters (filter & res, FM depth, etc..). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members augerinn Posted March 9, 2009 Author Members Share Posted March 9, 2009 Now I'm thoroughly confused. Let's see if I've got this straight TX81X Right ? BTW, I do have FM8 too, just nothing readily available to turn on and play it on. You know, boot, wait for boot, plug in MIDI cables, plug in Audio out, toure to mixer, etc....(It's not paty of my current rack) Polyphony is not an issue. I never use all of it as it is. Can't see my self doing 16 tracks of FM only, either.... Edit: DX200 is not Multi timbrel ? (FM Portion) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members aeon Posted March 9, 2009 Members Share Posted March 9, 2009 Is there any benifit to having two TX-81Zs ? More poly!Layered timbres!Double-and-detune thickening! cheers,Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members raffor Posted March 9, 2009 Members Share Posted March 9, 2009 More poly!Layered timbres!Double-and-detune thickening! I think a DX11 and TX81z would make a good couple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members aeon Posted March 9, 2009 Members Share Posted March 9, 2009 I think a DX11 and TX81z would make a good couple. I agree! cheers, Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members depulse Posted March 9, 2009 Members Share Posted March 9, 2009 Tx81z is a one trick pony, why would one want to have two one trick ponies? (says the guy with two SY77 synths) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TropicThink Posted March 9, 2009 Members Share Posted March 9, 2009 If you use them, keep'em. If you don't, let them go. It's not like these units are going to break the bank anyway, so I'm willing to be you can still afford an 802 and spend some time with them before deciding to do this or that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MartianWaves Posted March 9, 2009 Members Share Posted March 9, 2009 TX81X I have only a DX7 but I'd say: DX200 DX200 has knobs but it's a crippled machine. Since when 'FM depth' is an important parametre in FM programming? In FM you need to adjust tiny, little details, set individually. TX81z doesn't have the full range of values that the TX802 has and the TX802 can easily recreate the other waveshapes found in the TX81z - I don't understand what's missing if you know how to program FM. TX802 allows the greatest control over your sound and therefore it is the best from them four. Dual TX81z? Why not? Pairing synths always opens a world of new possibilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wildpaws Posted March 9, 2009 Members Share Posted March 9, 2009 I have only a DX7 but I'd say: DX200 DX200 has knobs but it's a crippled machine. Since when 'FM depth' is an important parametre in FM programming? In FM you need to adjust tiny, little details, set individually. TX81z doesn't have the full range of values that the TX802 has and the TX802 can easily recreate the other waveshapes found in the TX81z - I don't understand what's missing if you know how to program FM.TX802 allows the greatest control over your sound and therefore it is the best from them four.Dual TX81z? Why not? Pairing synths always opens a world of new possibilities. Here's where we will have to agree to disagree, I do not see how a TX802 "allows you the greatest control over your sound" versus a TG77. Please enlighten me as to what I'm missing. The TG77 has eight individual outs like the TX802 (as well as two assignable stereo outs), the FM engine is improved over the TX802 (beyond the alternate waveforms), The TG77 has filters not present on the TX802, I just don't see what you are referring to.Clyde Oh, and to Flowthrough: If you don't like the TG77 effects you can always turn them off and do outboard effects, though I've personally not had any real issues with the SY77 effects (which are the same as the TG77). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members aeon Posted March 9, 2009 Members Share Posted March 9, 2009 The Yamaha TX81Z and DX11 get tones that can't be had from their bigger 6-op bretheren. This may or may not be of value to you. They can certainly be programmed faster to get those tones. I do not own either of them, but recent programming of a TX81Z has shown me that they are crazy-good for electro-percussives. cheers,Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wildpaws Posted March 10, 2009 Members Share Posted March 10, 2009 The Yamaha TX81Z and DX11 get tones that can't be had from their bigger 6-op bretheren. This may or may not be of value to you. They can certainly be programmed faster to get those tones. I do not own either of them, but recent programming of a TX81Z has shown me that they are crazy-good for electro-percussives.cheers,Ian Would you care to explain that further? I'd be very interested to hear your explanation as I have not seen any sound from 4op FM in the last 24 years that could not be done better with 6op.Clyde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KingVidiot Posted March 10, 2009 Members Share Posted March 10, 2009 Supposedly Babyface (or someone like him) used two of them layered with slightly altered versions of the LatelyBass patch to make some killer fat bass lines. I wish I could remember the specifics, but I read about it a long time ago. I'm sure a quick Google search would pull it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MartianWaves Posted March 10, 2009 Members Share Posted March 10, 2009 Here's where we will have to agree to disagree, I do not see how a TX802 "allows you the greatest control over your sound" versus a TG77. Yes, sorry I stand corrected, TG77 > TX802. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flowthrough Posted March 10, 2009 Members Share Posted March 10, 2009 Now I'm thoroughly confused. Let's see if I've got this straight TX81X Right ? BTW, I do have FM8 too, just nothing readily available to turn on and play it on. You know, boot, wait for boot, plug in MIDI cables, plug in Audio out, toure to mixer, etc....(It's not paty of my current rack) Polyphony is not an issue. I never use all of it as it is. Can't see my self doing 16 tracks of FM only, either.... Edit: DX200 is not Multi timbrel ? (FM Portion) Yes- I'd agree with this... TX81z lots of opinions here.. and therefore FM lovers If you work with the TX81z and TX802 first, you'll appreciate the 'Goodies' in the TG77/DX200/FS1r later (and you can likely sell the TX802 for what you paid for it - to graduate to the TG77/DX200/FS1r when funds allow). Since you have FM8 - of course you've already got a ton of great FM sounds, but the TX81z may still have some sonic surprises.. the 12 bit sound.. on an 8 layer performance where each part is detuned (makes one note polyphony obviously) might make you appreciate the flavor of the TX81z. Admittedly, I have a TX81z, and two TQ5's- so you could say I'm kind of a fan of the 12 bit FM sound. (GAS - not very resistant I'm afraid ) oh- yes, DX200 is not multitimbral (unless you consider the sampled/ROM drum machine engine as such). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members aeon Posted March 10, 2009 Members Share Posted March 10, 2009 Would you care to explain that further? I'd be very interested to hear your explanation as I have not seen any sound from 4op FM in the last 24 years that could not be done better with 6op. Envelopes are different such that response is - values are scaled differently - there are many tones one can get from a DX100 or TX81Z that are not to be found in Yammy's 6-op machines. That said, they may not be sounds you care about. I once owned a SY99. It can do some great stuff to be sure - but sound like a 4-op is not one of them. cheers,Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wildpaws Posted March 11, 2009 Members Share Posted March 11, 2009 Envelopes are different such that response is - values are scaled differently - there are many tones one can get from a DX100 or TX81Z that are not to be found in Yammy's 6-op machines. That said, they may not be sounds you care about.I once owned a SY99. It can do some great stuff to be sure - but sound like a 4-op is not one of them.cheers,Ian I hate to disagree here, but I'm going to wave the BS flag! So the values are scaled differently, I seem to recall working around that many years ago when converting/programming 6op patches to 4op. I assume you are talking about some of the values being 0-99 instead of 0-127, that can be worked around. Making 4op conform to the actions of the 6op rates/levels, etc. is an issue as you are representing coarser values than the finer gradations of values on the 6op, the reverse is easily done as you have finer gradations on the 6op to easily represent the coarser values of the 4op. I can easily convert 4op sounds to my 6op synths, I never got the 6op sounds exactly right when trying to convert them to 4op.Clyde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members uvacom-rotatt Posted April 21, 2009 Members Share Posted April 21, 2009 I hate to disagree here, but I'm going to wave the BS flag! So the values are scaled differently, I seem to recall working around that many years ago when converting/programming 6op patches to 4op. I assume you are talking about some of the values being 0-99 instead of 0-127, that can be worked around. Making 4op conform to the actions of the 6op rates/levels, etc. is an issue as you are representing coarser values than the finer gradations of values on the 6op, the reverse is easily done as you have finer gradations on the 6op to easily represent the coarser values of the 4op. I can easily convert 4op sounds to my 6op synths, I never got the 6op sounds exactly right when trying to convert them to 4op. Clyde Clyde, Claude here. Ian is not mistaken. The 4-op FM synths are markedly different from the 6-op FMs, particularly in their very low EG and LFO resolution, and in the scaling and maximum values of the modulation index. It's not just scaled differently, a modulation value of 99 conforms to probably something around 150 on a 6-op FM, if you could reach that value of course. The 4-ops are also capable of greater feedback levels, about 10% more. True, this isn't unreasonable to emulate on a 6-op FM synth if you know what you're doing. But the output stage is also different, with less headroom and a more upfront sound. The sound I always use for this comparison is Solid Bass on the DX00. I have heard that the Lately Bass on the TX81z is similar, but I don't have one. Even if you work operator by operator, matching every value, there are subtle tonal differences. My ear is so used to the Solid Bass that nothing else sounds "right". Probably nobody else would care, but I just didn't hear Halcyon+On+On when I recreated Solid Bass on an SY99. FM7 was even worse. The TQ5 didn't even sound the same but arguably in that case it was just as good. It's a matter of degrees. But I still fire up the ol' DX100 from time to time because it truly does have a unique sound. It's not a particularly revered sound but it holds a great deal of nostalgia for me. Cheers, Claude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members acidolem Posted April 21, 2009 Members Share Posted April 21, 2009 TX802 I love the fact that you can store 64 alternate tunings ( ok, I only use 5 ) macro and micro - but it is so cool for a different direction that many other synths just can't approach. and all the sounds online from the dx7 II transfer over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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