Members Diametro Posted April 23, 2009 Members Share Posted April 23, 2009 What's wrong with a re-hash ... ??? I love twice-cooked foods ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MuzikB Posted April 23, 2009 Members Share Posted April 23, 2009 The workstation dead? Anybody who has the pleasure of owning a Korg M3 and noticing that 635 page parameter guide not counting the Radias manual might say there's nothing but longevity in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members akliner Posted April 23, 2009 Members Share Posted April 23, 2009 Absolutely not. They will continue to be my favorite format of keyed instrument (aside from piano) for as long as I live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Miket156 Posted April 23, 2009 Members Share Posted April 23, 2009 Quote by audacity works: "So when you consider who the workstation market is (hip hop dudes who want to make beats and middle-aged guys afraid of computer sequencing), innovation is going to be different. 128 MIDI tracks (up from 16), 24 audio tracks (up from 8 or none), and a MIDI engine that can access 64 parts (up from 16), and the ability to add extra synth engines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChromaLord Posted April 23, 2009 Members Share Posted April 23, 2009 They're not dead, they just smell funny.Maybe a little amusing if you are trying to kill some time (a lot of time) in a hotel room somewhere, but aside from that I hardly see the pro application. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ptooner Posted April 23, 2009 Members Share Posted April 23, 2009 I tend to think that it's live instruments that are dead. I just bought a Nord Electro 2. I really prefer Roland sounds, but Roland doesn't really make a gigging instrument. I've been using a Fantom as my solo instrument on top and it's too heavy and too complex. I started searching for a lightweight simple to use live instrument and it seemed to be Nord or nothing. Workstations were alive and well though, at every store I've seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bernard Posted April 23, 2009 Members Share Posted April 23, 2009 Some want them for gigging Some want them for studio Some want them for an all in one Some want them for a fuss free known quantity Some want them for their cool looks Some want them for their unique interface Some want them for ability to get away from a PC Some want them for plug in and play Some want them for ability to be part of an owners club Some want them for their unique features Some want them for their on going support Some want them for their longevity Some want them for their low latency Some want them for their vegas light effects Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Spybar Posted April 23, 2009 Members Share Posted April 23, 2009 I bought Roland Fantom G7 Workstation. It's the most powerful and INTUITIVE tool, for creating & recording musical feeling & ideas, out there. When I have a musical thing in my mind, 2 clicks, are the gap between me and them being recorded. That's priceless. As I wrote in this thread I've chose Fantom G because: 1) It is the closest workstation to DAW (writing & recording a whole song Midi & audio is easy). 2) Great sampler, with great connection of Phantom mic./Guitar/Line In etc. 3) "Skipback" function that record 40 seconds ALL THE TIME, so if I improvise and just really LOVE what just happen - I can "pick" it and start working with it on a new fresh song. 4) Great sounds overall (though, some more some less as any workstation & as a pianist, I must say that the pianos are so so...) 5) Wonderful abilities for Live performance (Live Mode) & seamless patch changing. 6) Great keyboard, wonderful screen, great pads, sliders & knobs. 7) Interesting & powerful ARX CARDS potential. 8) Good patch samples & powerful synthesis options. 9) Amazing potential overall, that I am sure will get better and better. Fantom G7 is the center of my pretty powerful home studio. Cheers, SpyBar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Audacity Works Posted April 23, 2009 Members Share Posted April 23, 2009 I think you are pigeon holing a whole lot of us "middle-aged guys" as being afraid of computer sequencing.I didn't claim middle-aged guys are afraid of computers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Diametro Posted April 23, 2009 Members Share Posted April 23, 2009 I bought Roland Fantom G7 Workstation. It's the most powerful and INTUITIVE tool, for creating & recording musical feeling & ideas, out there. When I have a musical thing in my mind, 2 clicks, are the gap between me and them being recorded. That's priceless. As I wrote in this thread I've chose Fantom G because: 1) It is the closest workstation to DAW (writing & recording a whole song Midi & audio is easy). 2) Great sampler, with great connection of Phantom mic./Guitar/Line In etc. 3) "Skipback" function that record 40 seconds ALL THE TIME, so if I improvise and just really LOVE what just happen - I can "pick" it and start working with it on a new fresh song. 4) Great sounds overall (though, some more some less as any workstation & as a pianist, I must say that the pianos are so so...) 5) Wonderful abilities for Live performance (Live Mode) & seamless patch changing. 6) Great keyboard, wonderful screen, great pads, sliders & knobs. 7) Interesting & powerful ARX CARDS potential. 8) Good patch samples & powerful synthesis options. 9) Amazing potential overall, that I am sure will get better and better. Fantom G7 is the center of my pretty powerful home studio. Cheers, SpyBar I'm dying to see what Roland does with V2 of the OS ... I'd love to upgrade this year but won't until I really know what I'm getting ... .......... I love skip back sampling, too ... I wish it were longer but working with audio that big tends to slow things down a bit naivating the file system ... Is it like that on G7 ... ??? I might already have a G7 is Roland would release a gotta-have-it ARX board ... instead I bought a V-Synth XT ($650) ... much better imo ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted April 23, 2009 Members Share Posted April 23, 2009 A ton of middle aged guys and older ,,,,just want a light gig worthy stage piano. They want an instrument to play, not program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Audacity Works Posted April 23, 2009 Members Share Posted April 23, 2009 I love skip back sampling, too...I'd kill for skipback sequencing (SHIFT-SKIPBACK). That's one of the features I use in Logic constantly (capture last take). Can't remember the last time I actually pressed RECORD on a MIDI track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members aeon Posted April 24, 2009 Members Share Posted April 24, 2009 Generalization will always get you in trouble audacity. Oh, the irony! cheers, Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Woody4 Posted April 24, 2009 Members Share Posted April 24, 2009 It's the most powerful and INTUITIVE tool, for creating & recording musical feeling & ideas, out there. I think you forgot to add "for me" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Miket156 Posted April 24, 2009 Members Share Posted April 24, 2009 Audacity: I realize that DAW's are more powerful and more flexible than a workstation, but again, I don't see the need for one FOR ME based on what I do with mine. There have been songs that I used separate tracks for kick, snare, H-H, Toms, cymbals, etc. and I have used more than one track for string parts, like one track just for cello, and a different track for the rest of the "orchestra". Double track guitar parts (double leads, different sounds, etc)It depends on the song of course. Music production and doing a live classic rock show by a solo like me doesn't call for a lot of complexity. I use Control Changes and Program Changes Midi commands with many of my tracks, and I can regulate velocity, and exactly where I want notes to start and what the duration with the track info my Motif ES8 gives me. I can switch programs within any track to different General Midi sounds if I need more sounds than what 16 tracks will allow. Change FX, lots of options. No, its no DAW, but again its about the application. If I was doing something else with my music, like my own album, I would certainly put together a DAW system. But I'm getting what I need out of what I have, and I don't like to part with $$$ unless it pays for itself or I can't accomplish what I'm trying to do on my existing rig. Cheers. Mike T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members aeon Posted April 24, 2009 Members Share Posted April 24, 2009 I'm getting what I need out of what I have, and I don't like to part with $$$ unless it pays for itself or I can't accomplish what I'm trying to do on my existing rig. I value this. cheers,Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Hamburglar Posted April 24, 2009 Members Share Posted April 24, 2009 Workstations are not going to die, because many, many people understandably don't want to be tied to the computer. I feel like workstations are about to go through a major change with the rising capacity / affordability of solid state drives. Just imagine having, say, Scarbee's piano / bass samples instantly playable! Eat your heart out, Electro! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tony Scharf Posted April 24, 2009 Members Share Posted April 24, 2009 ...and they cycle repeats again... 1. the big 3 release their new workstations about the same time2. everyone complains that there is nothing new, no innovation3. time passes..4. someone posts that workstations must be dead since they havnt heard from the big 3 in 6 months..5. much wrangling and nashing of teeth. 6. the big 3 release their new workstations about the same and...we been here before? The issue is that the product is a mature one, so steps are going to be evolutionary and not revolutionary. I mean...really...the only difference between the big three are minor differences in feature focus and aesthetics. They all pretty much do the same thing. Workstations are the MS Office of musical instruments. Useful tools that became feature complete several years ago and now its all about refinements of the elements we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members realtrance Posted April 24, 2009 Members Share Posted April 24, 2009 I'm still quite content with my XP-80. If it ever dies, I'll get whatever Roland has out at that time that's the equivalent, for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members poserp Posted April 24, 2009 Members Share Posted April 24, 2009 I really don't like the limited synthesis capabilities of most workstations out there. ROMpling will only get you so far, and from reading the manuals for the various keyboards on offer from the "big 3" I'm underwhelmed. Why, for instance, doesn't anyone else besides kurzweil give you the option of doing crazy stuff like using 32 24db/octave lowpass filters in series? Most of them have some sort of very limited "modulation matrix" or other silly restraints on what you can do in terms of controlling a sound. They work well if you want to make music that people have heard before, but not so well if you want to innovate. Granted, people who care about those things are probably a small minority of the overall workstation market, so I don't think the workstation is dead. But it seems most workstations are needlessly hobbled when it comes to synthesis and sound mangling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tony Scharf Posted April 24, 2009 Members Share Posted April 24, 2009 I really don't like the limited synthesis capabilities of most workstations out there. ROMpling will only get you so far, and from reading the manuals for the various keyboards on offer from the "big 3" I'm underwhelmed. Why, for instance, doesn't anyone else besides kurzweil give you the option of doing crazy stuff like using 32 24db/octave lowpass filters in series? Most of them have some sort of very limited "modulation matrix" or other silly restraints on what you can do in terms of controlling a sound. They work well if you want to make music that people have heard before, but not so well if you want to innovate. Granted, people who care about those things are probably a small minority of the overall workstation market, so I don't think the workstation is dead. But it seems most workstations are needlessly hobbled when it comes to synthesis and sound mangling. There is more in there than you might think - its just not 'instant gratification move the slider and WOW I AM TRENT REZNOR!!!' kinda stuff like in the kurzweil. It takes a bit of thinking, sometimes, to get to the sound you are looking for specifically, and you have to really get to know the instrument (i know, blasphemy in these days of short attention spans and product cycles) but you would be surprised what you can get out of one. I wouldnt trade my Korg M3 with the Radias option for anything. Can it do as many crazy sounds as my PEK or my Omega 8? Pretty close, but then thats what the sampling is for. The workstation can be/is the glue that holds the other parts of the studio together and can unseat the PC for dominant control making a set of keys the center of attention as opposed to a mouse and keyboard. The more I use the Korg, the more my PC becomes a multi track recorder and utility sample editor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members poserp Posted April 24, 2009 Members Share Posted April 24, 2009 It takes a bit of thinking, sometimes, to get to the sound you are looking for specifically, and you have to really get to know the instrument (i know, blasphemy in these days of short attention spans and product cycles) but you would be surprised what you can get out of one. I wouldnt trade my Korg M3 with the Radias option for anything. Can it do as many crazy sounds as my PEK or my Omega 8? Pretty close, but then thats what the sampling is for. I agree that spending time learning a box will pay dividends in being able to accomplish what you want to accomplish. And, with a bit of creative thinking you can probably work around most of the limitations imposed within most workstations. That being said, I still think having the flexibility allows a programmer to add nuance and make a patch more "alive" than just sampling the output of something else and creatively manipulating it. Again, though, I'm sure I'm in a small minority of potential workstation users that care about such things. I think most of the people who want that level of control have moved on to using software. So to each their own; as for me, I highly value an architecture that's very flexible like Kurzweil's VAST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members carbon111 Posted April 24, 2009 Members Share Posted April 24, 2009 The issue is that the product is a mature one, so steps are going to be evolutionary and not revolutionary. Just so. This is the main reason workstations are "boring" for many people... The "workstation" market paradigm is pretty much just a sample-based multitimbral keyboard with a subtractive synthesis architecture. Hard to tweak vanilla into something it's not. ...still an eminantly usable tool for performers and songwriters though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members workstation M.I Posted April 24, 2009 Members Share Posted April 24, 2009 Just to get the ball rolling from my end of the court, howizzit that ALL of the major workstation makers(save for Korg and Alesis) are "afraid" of installing hard drives in their keyboards? This does not seem to be the issue with stand alone DAWS (with swappable drives at that) so,what's the hold-up? And while we're at it, how about built in CD Burners? (swappable too,hopefully?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members workstation M.I Posted April 25, 2009 Members Share Posted April 25, 2009 Actually,the Workstation as we know it is,what,little more than 2 decades old,give or take a couple of years? It is still a work in progress and ,BION, there are still some MAJOR improvements to come down the pipeline,even if we can't think of them now. But a few of them,if you're seemingly trying in vain to WILL them to happen(or even if you're not! ) will soon show up in a keyboard near you. Case in point. On other boards under other soodynims, I was belaboring the fact that instead of having three different keybed sizes (61,76 and 88) they should be cut down to just two(76 and 88) And OF the two,the 76 should be cut down by three keys to a nice,even and aesthetically pleasing(at least to me) 73 keys. Much neater presentation and who's gonna miss those three keys anyhoo? Sure,the 61 is history but hey,you never liked messing around with those damn octave switches anyways,right? AND for those of you who didn't want to strain themselves hauling around an 88 clunkoid, a 73 still provides more space than a 61 and you only drop 15 keys. AND the KB makers save a bit of $$$ because,in the workstation market, they only have to deal with 2 sizes of KB instead of three AND (hopefully) they are so jazzed,they pass a bit of the savings on to YOU(If it works that way) Imagine my surprise when Korg unveils the M3 and ONE of those puppys IS a 73 key model!!! Holy anal expulsion with peanuts,Batman!!!! Yeah sure,they still have a 61( you "octave switch junkies" are still safe) but now the 76 is NO MORE!!!! I'm not afraid to tell you this next,but I am firmly convinced that any one of the Korg dudes caught my act at a BBS nearest them and started thinking about the possibilities of 73 instead of 76. Korg probably won't admit to this,but they got the idea from me,which is all good and well because 73 keys is not exactly a major innovation,you know. 73 keys are NOT my idea-MY idea was to replace 76 with 73 keys because of the reasons stated previously. And if some of you are thinking that I'm full of "Ca-Ca",well,go back through the history books on keyboards and PLEASE tell me how many 73 key workstation keyboards there have been-I would honestly love to know!If there's even more than just 5, I'd be seriously surprised. And if there were none,prior to the M3,then,I rest my case (of beer). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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