big gm job cuts

[bikehorn]

i care less about the carmaker's origin than i do about the quality of the vehicle and what they offer with it. That said, i would try to buy domestic if i could get what i wanted and not have to compromise just because of brand loyalty. couple that with the fact that i want an intelligent car, not yet-a-{censored}ing-nother big ol gas-drinking V8 sedan or SUV with all the modern design philosophy of a 1987 Cadillac DeVille, especially given the current reality of gas prices.

example: my parents bought an '05 Volkswagen Passat TDI. Aside from other Volkswagen models, the Jeep Liberty CRD and the Mercedes-Benz E320 CDI, there are quite simply no diesel vehicles sold in North America that anyone might actually want to own and be able to drive practically. Neither Ford nor GM has done much to further the cause of diesel(or fuel efficiency in general) aside from stocking a 6.something litre clatter machine for their truck lineups. blah blah blah, you can cry on all you want about how "north americans won't buy diesel" because GM {censored}ed up in the early 80's by selling underpowered, underengineered and unreliable diesels in their mid and full-size sedans. Gee, i wonder if people's attitudes and views might change in twenty five years? nobody even tries. Big deal, Ford introduces an Escape hybrid. my dad gave it some serious thought for a while but left it alone. the fuel economy is really nothing special considering it's marketed as a fuel-saving vehicle, and it's priced too high for anyone to make a substantial savings anyway.

so, by default, the prize for a fuel efficient(1000 KM to a tank is advertised, and you actually get around 900-950), well designed and good looking midsize sedan for most people goes to VW by default because they're the only ones in the market. without heavy advertising they move every one that hits the lot very quickly.

[potaetoes]

Originally posted by bikehorn (lots of sensible stuff)

 

 

the VW TDIs are great cars, and generally a pleasure to drive.

[satannica]

To be honest- the only car to buy these days are either German or Japs!

Ford - cars plagued with problems with their PSA series diesel engine

Vauxhall - too pricey for the better models for what they are!

Renault - You're basically buying years worth of trouble free billing for all the repairs you'll have to do that won't be covered by warranty and some models have literally one set of tyres you can actually put on them!

Citroen - Good if you're going largely downhill - hello, power, hello!?



Now on the other hand - Toyota, Volks, BMW and even Skoda are doing well (Skoda = made by BMW I think that's right).

No wonder GM is faltering - their products are cack!

[STRAT TOOL]

I buy my wife a new car every few years. We had a Chrysler 300 M, the first year they came out. Dynamite car. The lease ended and we got a VW Jetta. It was truly the car from hell. Fun to drive but in two years, it was constantly breaking. After the airbags blew out for no reason, I put my story on the internet and found I was not alone. I was even interviewed at length by NBC news in Chicago.

After that car was 2 and we were besides ourself with it, we went back to Chrysler. Chrysler and Chevrolet in Dayton NJ share a large showroom. Compared to Chrysler, GM cars look over ten years old inside when they are brand new. These cars are badly dated unless you are inside of a vette. Their standard fare is substandard and it doesn't surprise me that they are in trouble. Their designers should have been fired five years ago if not more.

People forget how many people are employed over here by the japanese. between auto and electronics the amount of jobs is staggering. Having a japanese car isn't saying FU to america in my opinion.

Anyway my newest car is a Chrysler Concord. It's {censored}ing huge and it hauls ass, not bad on gas either. I prefer it over an SUV any day for hauling around my daughter. The sound system rocks and it's loaded. I think I paid 23 grand for it. Awesome value.

My newest truck is an Isuzu NPR diesel. If it had a vagina, I'd {censored} it. I love that truck.

[snakum]

If the greedy union bastards hadn't of required $21 and hour to sweep floors, then they wouldn't be in this predicament. UAW makes substandard {censored} for high labor rates. I'll not shed one damned tear.

I'm an Industrial Engineer (though I went into IT when all the jobs left), my brothers are all engineers (except for one in the Outlaws MC who is a criminal ) and our father was an engineer (no ... he didn't drive trains). I always bought American cars, always bought American motorcycles, always bought American guitars. I was a 'Buy American' kinda guy. However ....

American cars became over-priced piece of {censored} money holes, American motorcycles became merely overpriced (I quit riding), and the quality of American guitars went south in the 80s and 90s while the costs went sky high. As someone else said, I have my own economy to worry about. I still try to buy Jap cars from American factories (check the stickers in the door jam), but I buy Asian guitars and now an Asian tube amp because they are making pretty decent stuff at prices that won't make me choose between a new amp or buying the brand of coffee I want and not a generic grind all month long.

And yes, unions are somewhat to blame in the midwest and the north east (as a mfg. manager down south I've heard the horror stories), but it is also an entitlement mentality from many American workers in the 70s and 80s, bottom-line-at-all-costs management decisions, and plain old Econ 101 as we move to a global economy. It sucks ... but it's a whole new ball game and as I watch IT jobs head to South Asia I have to watch out for my own ecomony, even though I feel badly for those 30K GM workers.

Minh

Edit ... read the above post and wanted to add that everyone I know who bought a Volkswagon car or stationwagon in the past ten years has had a nightmare of repair bills and most sold them as quickly as possible. Volks today is not the company it used to be. They're using cheap Eastern European Design and Mechanical Engineers, perhaps?

[BerkleeBill]

Originally posted by potaetoes the VW TDIs are great cars, and generally a pleasure to drive.

I bought my sister a VW Beetle TDI some years ago and the thing gets like 49mpg consistently. It's a great car that's been problemless since day one.

Additionally, I bought a Passat back in 2000 and other than basic general maintenance, I've had to do nothing to that car. Of course these are just 2 vehicles, but as far as I'm concerned, it's 2 for 2 for VW. Sorry - I like cars that don't break and require repair.

[porph]

Originally posted by satannica Now on the other hand - Toyota, Volks, BMW and even Skoda are doing well (Skoda = made by BMW I think that's right). No wonder GM is faltering - their products are cack!

 

 

Skoda is part of the VW Automotive Group.

 

The thing I dont understand is why so many people in the US feel the need to drive around in huge, gas guzzling pickup trucks. I havnt been over for a good 5 years but I was amazed by the number I saw. My uncle for example at the time drove an 8-seater 7 litre Chevy Suburban while my aunt had some v8 chevy saloon. Rediculous.

[Shiny_Surface]

Originally posted by guitarjrw 30000 american jobs gone. think about that before you buy that new honda.

 

 

 

Honda's are built better and more reliable, I wouldn't even think twice about it.

 

I own a Toyota truck that was made in California, been very reliable thus far.......

[Pepi]

Originally posted by guitarjrw 30000 american jobs gone. think about that before you buy that new honda.

Sorry dude, but I'm getting ready to trade my POS 2002 Olds for a new Honda Accord. There just made better

[SuperStrat]

Originally posted by guitarjrw 30000 american jobs gone. think about that before you buy that new honda.

 

 

It would be totally un-American to artificially prop up second place....

[hairydangler]

Originally posted by Rich {censored}em'! I own a Honda Pilot and a Subaru Outback, and they both have heated leather seats. If the greedy union bastards hadn't of required $21 and hour to sweep floors, then they wouldn't be in this predicament. UAW makes substandard {censored} for high labor rates. I'll not shed one damned tear.

Those wages and benefits were negotiated for and GM didnt have a problem with it then did they? Plus the unions have been making concessions for years. If you think new workers get hired in at those same rates youre mistaken. They only seem to mention the wages of workkers with about 20 years or more of seniority.

Your attitude toward your fellow unionized americans is disgraceful.

[hairydangler]

Originally posted by converge you can thank american auto unions and bad products for this, not honda.

 

 

 

Whats with all the anti-union bull{censored}? It wasnt their idea to have to compete with $3 an hour slave labor with no benefits.

 

Youre witnessing the demanufacturization of america. Enjoy yourself.

[hairydangler]

Originally posted by DirtyBird ... I swear the Japs are making as many cars in the US as the US companies are...

 

 

 

And you dont hear Honda or Toyota crying about wages and benefits either... But yet they pay about the same as the union plants. Actually they get paid more then most new union auto workers getting hired.

[SuperStrat]

Originally posted by hairydangler Those wages and benefits were negotiated for and GM didnt have a problem with it then did they? Plus the unions have been making concessions for years. If you think new workers get hired in at those same rates youre mistaken. They only seem to mention the wages of workkers with about 20 years or more of seniority.

 

 

+1

 

It's not union wages that caused the collapse... it

[Shiny_Surface]

Originally posted by hairydangler And you dont hear Honda or Toyota crying about wages and benefits either... But yet they pay about the same as the union plants. Actually they get paid more then most new union auto workers getting hired.

Maybe GM should take a look at their business model, and take some cues

[BigWood]

Originally posted by hairydangler Those wages and benefits were negotiated for and GM didnt have a problem with it then did they? Plus the unions have been making concessions for years. If you think new workers get hired in at those same rates youre mistaken. They only seem to mention the wages of workers with about 20 years or more of seniority. Your attitude toward your fellow unionized americans is disgraceful.

+1

I happen to be one of the 30,000 about to lose his job....real nice for GM to drop the bomb right before the holidays..people like Rich alway rag on the union guy makin' a decent livin' but never say two words about the overpaid CEO's who continually make bad decisions and are rewarded for their incompetence....

[SuperStrat]

Originally posted by BigWood +1 I happen to be one of the 30,000 about to lose his job....real nice for GM to drop the bomb right before the holidays..people like Rich alway rag on the union guy makin' a decent livin' but never say two words about the overpaid CEO's who continually make bad decisions and are rewarded for their incompetence....

That sucks!

Best of luck to you... I hope things work out.

[Shiny_Surface]

Originally posted by BigWood +1 I happen to be one of the 30,000 about to lose his job....real nice for GM to drop the bomb right before the holidays

One of my friends works at Delphi in Lockport, he told me a few weeks ago that if he gets laid off he gets $100,000 lump sum cash right away .

[SuperStrat]

Originally posted by Shiny_Surface One of my friends works at Delphi in Lockport, he told me a few weeks ago that if he gets laid off he gets $100,000 lump sum cash right away .

I'm sure he'd rather have his job

[snakum]

the overpaid CEO's who continually make bad decisions and are rewarded for their incompetence

Just as in the airlines, automakers have been top-heavy with deadwood for decades. They have to take the blame along with the workers (and the workers do share the burden, imho) and our new global economic policies. Huge, bloated companies either change or die, and GM has been stagnant since Jesus was a baby. The days of "What's good for GM is good for America" have been over for thirty years but the corporate offices appeared not to notice. They should clean out corporate to save a few worker jobs.

 

Minh

[hairydangler]

I think GM said theyd close 9 US plants. Well I bet they open 29 plants over seas. But thats fair trade right? Or at least fair trade for countries paying slave labor wages right? They should just call it the 3rd world economy instead of world economy.


Im tired of GM crying about slow sales in the US also. They should try to sell their cars in the countries where there are jobs.

[Dark Angel]

Originally posted by Tubesteakfortone I mean Cancer in American is the 2 killer. It isn't even in the top 10 in other countries...just a random thought!

 

 

 

Yes, but one not analyzed correctly. It's because our hospitals can get you out the door intact with almost ANY ailment coming in... except cancer. People don't die from stupid {censored} here.

[Shiny_Surface]

Originally posted by hairydangler I think GM said theyd close 9 US plants. Well I bet they open 29 plants over seas. But thats fair trade right? Or at least fair trade for countries paying slave labor wages right? They should just call it the 3rd world economy instead of world economy. Im tired of GM crying about slow sales in the US also. They should try to sell their cars in the countries where there are jobs.

Shouldn't you look at foreign wages in the context of the standard of living in those countries?

[hairydangler]

Originally posted by BigWood +1 I happen to be one of the 30,000 about to lose his job....real nice for GM to drop the bomb right before the holidays..people like Rich alway rag on the union guy makin' a decent livin' but never say two words about the overpaid CEO's who continually make bad decisions and are rewarded for their incompetence....

Im sorry to hear that man.

Best of luck to you. Im sure youll bounce back somehow.

[hairydangler]

Originally posted by Shiny_Surface Shouldn't you look at foreign wages in the context of the standard of living in those countries?

Why? All I need to know is that as an auto worker I am expected to compete with $3 an hour and no benefits. Kindve an overwhelming thought SINCE THATS IMPOSSIBLE IN AMERICA!!