Members goblinsolutions Posted April 13, 2006 Members Share Posted April 13, 2006 ok,so less power woudl work better at low volume?: and im not a techie geek..i dont care what the inside of the amp looks like.as long as its reliable of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SteveVHT Posted April 13, 2006 Members Share Posted April 13, 2006 Originally posted by goblinsolutions when i saw whitesnake live i saw a huge rack and several marshall looking amps? is there a link to the amp you mentioned? And ideally id like to get close to that sound at a decent volume level and not have the weight and size of 4x12s. what about using overdrive/ds pedals vs relying on preamp tubes to get disrtortion? http://www.online-discussion.com/Suhr/http://www.suhrguitars.com/And a little pic of my OD100SE, OD50 and 4x12's... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SteveVHT Posted April 13, 2006 Members Share Posted April 13, 2006 Originally posted by goblinsolutions ok,so less power woudl work better at low volume?: and im not a techie geek..i dont care what the inside of the amp looks like.as long as its reliable of course. Yes, because you will get a more "cranked" amp sound...But you can also get an attenuator like a hotplate for a higher watt amp.I never have a problem getting great tones from 100+watt amps at bedroom levels. Some amps can't do that like older Marshalls etc...Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members petelaramee Posted April 13, 2006 Members Share Posted April 13, 2006 Originally posted by SteveVHT http://www.online-discussion.com/Suhr/http://www.suhrguitars.com/And a little pic of my OD100SE, OD50 and 4x12's... Steve - I never get sick of pics of your gear... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members goblinsolutions Posted April 13, 2006 Members Share Posted April 13, 2006 thanks for this why do these amps give that sound? is there a 20w or 30w in that range of amps? can i get a similair sound with a 1 or 2x12 at a lower volume level.? im looking at ac30 re-issues,the laney lc30 and peavey classic and considering usign a ds-1 with them to get more gain. apologies for all the questions, thanks Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members goblinsolutions Posted April 13, 2006 Members Share Posted April 13, 2006 thanks steve, well buying a 100w amp with the intention of running it loud just to then drop the volume with an attenuator seems a bit weird to me. what amps would you recommend to get clsoe to that tone with lower output? and is dist/od pedal on the front a good idea or is it better to get dist via preamp valves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SteveVHT Posted April 13, 2006 Members Share Posted April 13, 2006 Originally posted by goblinsolutions thanks for thiswhy do these amps give that sound? is there a 20w or 30w in that range of amps?can i get a similair sound with a 1 or 2x12 at a lower volume level.?im looking at ac30 re-issues,the laney lc30 and peavey classic and considering usign a ds-1 with them to get more gain.apologies for all the questions,thanksNeil John makes a small 18 watt version of this amp called the Badger....But it's a single channel amp. But you can get great variety if you use a few pedals.....and that's with any amp.You may also want to look into a Mesa Boogie Mark Series, especially the Mark 4... Alot of tones to be had, and sound amazing at low volumes...Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members goblinsolutions Posted April 13, 2006 Members Share Posted April 13, 2006 sorry who is john??? 18w sounds good. I think i may be allergic to mesa boogies,all the kiddie bands where i live get awfull scooped sounds out of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members vlad Posted April 13, 2006 Members Share Posted April 13, 2006 Originally posted by goblinsolutions ...I think i may be allergic to mesa boogies,all the kiddie bands where i live get awfull scooped sounds out of them. Oh man... don't let them stop you.. Look at the Tremoverb and the Mark series. They sound terrific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SteveVHT Posted April 13, 2006 Members Share Posted April 13, 2006 Originally posted by goblinsolutions sorry who is john??? 18w sounds good. I think i may be allergic to mesa boogies,all the kiddie bands where i live get awfull scooped sounds out of them. John is John Suhr...He makes the amps....As for being allergic to Boogies, don't confuse the Mark series sound with the Rectofier sound...Very very different.Also put into perspective the fact that it's dumb kids playing dumb music....Sample setting from dumb kids...Gain-10Treble-10Mid-0Bass-10A Mark 4 amp can conjur up just about any tone you want and will never get buzzy like a recto...Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members goblinsolutions Posted April 13, 2006 Members Share Posted April 13, 2006 ok,i thought boogie just did rectums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ben J Posted April 13, 2006 Author Members Share Posted April 13, 2006 The rectifier is a GREAT amp. That's been proven by clips by some guys who know how to dial it in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bob Savage Posted April 13, 2006 Members Share Posted April 13, 2006 Originally posted by Ben J The rectifier is a GREAT amp. That's been proven by clips by some guys who know how to dial it in. Rectifier = PCB, PCB=POS, therefore Rectifier = POS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Peter Diezel Posted April 13, 2006 Members Share Posted April 13, 2006 Originally posted by petelaramee Here's a long-assed yet informative note from THD's Andy Marshall on the subject. Oddly, this quote is taken from Bogner's website._____________From Andy Marshall: Not all manufacturers choose to use PC boards just to save money. We use them for consistency more than for price, but making a somewhat affordable amplifier is a nice benefit. I don't think that someone should have to be a lawyer or Microsoft Millionaire to be able to afford a new amplifier that is hand-built, reliable and sounds and feels good to play.If a PC board is designed correctly and the correct components are used, the amplifier production should be absolutely consistent from one unit to the next. No re-routing of traces should ever be necessary to make an amp function or sound right. If you find it necessary to change and re-rout wires in your amps, then you are not in production, but are just making a series of unstable prototypes. Treble reduction to the point where it reduces the clarity of the amplifier is not an acceptable stabilizing technique for either a PTP or PCB amplifier.Recently, we got a call from a tech complimenting us on our old Plexi model amplifier (that we built between 1990 and 1995), but he said that it was just a little bit "stiff in the high-end" compared to a real Marshall Plexi. To back up his point, he told us that he had a real Marshall Plexi on the bench next to ours and was comparing the two side by side. What he did not seem to realize was that no two Marshall Plexis sound the same. They were terribly inconsistent with their component sources and values, not to mention the inconsistencies in wire routing.Taking a point to point or a turret-board amplifier, if one moves the wires around, the entire sound and character of the amplifier can change, often dramatically. This is a well-recognized phenomenon.If you understand these interactions well, you can design a PC board to sound and feel any way you want it to. Furthermore, every one will sound the same. How many times have you plugged into an old Marshall-50 watt head, only to be terribly disappointed by the sound and feel of the amplifier? While this may be caused by poor tubes, at least in part, inconsistencies in the internal layout of the amplifier often play a significant role.If you understand how one component affects the component next to it and how one trace affects the trace next to it, then you should be able lay out a circuit board correctly the first time, not by building 10 and picking the best one. Mind you, it takes many years of experience to develop the sort of understanding of the capacitive and inductive interrelations involved. In the old days, I did this for a living for other companies, designing circuit boards for the audio sections of amplifiers, mixing consoles, signal processing equipment, etc... While I am under confidentiality agreements with almost all of my former clients, I can tell you that there is hardly a professional recording studio in the US or Europe that does not have some audio circuit board with my layout in some piece of equipment. After a few hundred such projects, one develops an intricate understanding of how traces and components interact.A number of years ago, Guitar Player magazine did a review of one of our amplifiers. They stated that they, as a general rule, do not care for circuit board amplifiers, but also said that I had addressed every one of their concerns, and that they had nothing bad to say regarding our use of circuit boards. It felt good to see someone start to understand what it is that we do and why.Certain components throw a rather large field. Others do not. Some components are very susceptible to the fields from other components, while some are not. Components can affect the signal passing through traces, and traces can affect the signal passing through components. It ends up being an enormous network of positive and negative feedback between components within each other's sway. This is why the distance between specific components on the board and the physical orientation of the components relative to one another (rotational orientation, as well as lateral placement) cannot be ignored. Furthermore, which traces are parallel to one another and at what distance, which traces are perpendicular to one another and that what distance, and the amount of ground plane in-between them can seriously affect the overall sound and feel of the finished amplifier.Most people design circuit boards either haphazardly or for the greatest parts density/easiest and least expensive manufacture. Neither of these methods belongs in a high-end amplifier, and such approaches give PC Board designs a bad name.If you know what you are doing, a thicker board is better than a thinner board (ours are .093" or 3/32", most are .062 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeathMonkey Posted April 13, 2006 Members Share Posted April 13, 2006 Andy Marshall is a God among men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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