Tube Watts = 3x as Loud as SS Watts?

[chaosStrings]

C'mon, a W is a W.

 

But tube amps have got power amp distortion (and an over-dimensioned power supply which enables to achieve it, solid state don't).

 

And the SPEAKER is often a grater quality, greater SENSITIVITY one, meaning that it may have a sensitivity > to +3 dB/1W/1m, which corresponds to DOUBLING the power of your amp.

So 100 W amp + 95 dB/1W/1m speaker = 50 W amp + 98 dB/1W/1m speaker

 

If you put a 102 dB/1W/1m Eminence Man'o'war speaker on your 15W SS amp you will have a 20W louder amp than with a 98 dB/1W/1m Celestion.

[vinylphile]

I'm not too sure about the "sounding louder" part but I definitely think the tube amps saturate more pleasantly at loud volumes. I previously had a Marshall 50W valvestate which sounded decent at bedroom levels running the dirty channel (tube preamp section) however playing in a band setting it sounded like absolute ass. It got loud enough but didn't get loud pleasantly. Replaced that with a Traynor 50Blue which sounded good at bedroom or band volumes - didn't necessarily play louder than the Traynor but anything above about 5 on the master volume sounded like absolute crap - tinny, bright and very unpleasant - on either the clean or dirty channel.

Just my experience.

[guitarman79]

Tube Watts = 3x as Loud as SS Watts?

 

bull{censored}

[diavolo1]

In my experience, tube amps kill solid state amps for volume. I've got a new band going where one guitarist is using a 100W Marshall Valvestate (which doesn't sound half bad) and the other is using a 50W Marshall DSL. Both are using humbuckers. When turned halfway up, the DSL cuts right through the band, while the Valvestate is running literally full tilt and can't be heard. I think it has something to do with the quality of the components. Solid state amps are usually rated close to their max output and have cheaper transformers than their tube counterparts. The tube amps seem to put out more wattage when they start clipping the output tubes. For example, the Univalve is rated at 15 watts, but with a 6L6 cranked, it puts out closer to 25 watts.

 

 

 

fwiw, the valvestates that i have played in the past, have been pretty weak, power wise. i imagine the dsl will eat it's lunch every time. the old randalls however, have alot of power at the same rating. mine has buried some decent tube amps in the past volume wise.

having said that, right before half volume on the master, mine starts to clip in a bad way, and gives up the ghost. luckily, i never have to run it more than four/five, on the master, and thats pretty {censored}ing loud.

[warriorxtman]

Tube Watts = 3x as Loud as SS Watts? bull{censored}

 

From my limited experience, yes.

[uncle psychosis]

Ouput power and perceived volume are not necessarily remotely equivalent. The ear is a strange beast...

 

Sam

[chaosStrings]

 

Ouput power and perceived volume are not necessarily remotely equivalent. The ear is a strange beast...

 

There are the speakers before the ear, they make a big difference!

[spentron]

A watt is a watt, in terms of output power at that instant. In the case of "clean" sound the 3X difference is possible or even conservative. First, tubes aren't really clean in the comparison, they add some harmonics that make it seem louder. Also guitar is a very dynamic signal, hard picking can make the power requirement drop to maybe 1/4 just a fraction of a second after the picking. Tubes can take off that attack, and somewhat include that dynamic through increased power or compensate by making it sound louder by distortion in a way that is not heard as distortion, especially compared to the sound of such a sharp attack in the first place. So a 50W tube amp can be set for 50 watts after the attack, and sound like 60, where solid state can be set to barely over 50 at the peak of the attack to sound clean.

On the other hand, if a player with a tube amp is accustomed to their distortion sound only at low levels, and only turns up enough to keep in that range, they won't be able to push past the power rating and tubes will get them little.

Theoretically, both SS and tube amps can put out around twice their rated power. This is the difference between the RMS power of a sine wave and a square wave of exactly the same peak voltage. The SS amp's power supply is more likely to sag under that load, however.

Other factors:
- many SS guitar power amp sections are very poor quality, unusable for any other purpose. Their distortion characteristics vary widely -- the best I've heard was a non-master volume that was unusable for distortion without an attenuator -- it was that loud. I have also noticed a tendency for master vol. SS amps to sound worst right at clipping -- they get tighter both below and above that.
- tube amps have impedance matching options
- a 50W Marshall is not rated 50 watts, it is a 50W "type" amp, usually with a clean rating of 65-70W

What should be noted is that changing from a 75 watt amp maxed out to a 150 watt amp maxed out through the same speakers is only a 3 decibel increase. That's noticable, but not much. If you want to double the apparent volume (10 db) you need an increase of around 8 times the original wattage. That would be 600 watts in this case.

This is an important point, but every time it is stated there seems to be a need to overstate it ... 1 dB is the threshold of a difference most people can hear, and in some cases can go much lower, and there's only 120 of them between sounds most of us can't hear anymore and sounds so loud they caused that condition. If you didn't know what a dB was, and someone told you there were 3 of them between the volumes of a 50 watter and 100 right after both were demo'd to you, you'd probably think a dB is somewhat large. When comparisons are relative rather than absolute, the difference seems larger. 3 watts may be "only" 10 dB less than 30, but try playing with a full-out drummer even through a 4x12 with 3 watts ...

[spentron]

article on the topic. http://users.chariot.net.au/~gmarts/amppower.htm

 

 

Just checked that out, WAY better than I expected. He tried to put volume differences in proportion.

 

Another way to put it is that twice the power doesn't sound twice as loud, but it still sounds twice as powerful.

[tlbonehead]

Just checked that out, WAY better than I expected. He tried to put volume differences in proportion. Another way to put it is that twice the power doesn't sound twice as loud, but it still sounds twice as powerful.

 

Its pretty common knowledge that 2x the power = approx. 3db more volume. No idea what "twice as powerful" sounds like.

[ntmo]

I read somewhere recently that a 10 watt tube amp will reach the same decibel level as an 80 watt solid state through the same speaker.

[tlbonehead]

I read somewhere recently that a 10 watt tube amp will reach the same decibel level as an 80 watt solid state through the same speaker.

 

I read somewhere that Hitler was a hero.