Members potaetoes Posted July 1, 2006 Members Share Posted July 1, 2006 Originally posted by guitar shmoe Gosh you are tiring....do I really have to list all the quotes from Thomas Jefferson that are ABSOLUTELY supportive of a Christian led Union?? though he was an open Deist...(along with B Franklin) Here's some T Jefferson to put in your pipe: " The Bible is the cornerstone of liberty, our student's perusal of the Sacred Volume will make us better citizens" Jefferson approved a Congressional decision to ordain special lands "for the sole use of Christian Indians"....."to be entrusted to the Moravian Brethren for civilizing the Indians and promoting Christianity" and in 1796 "An act Regulating the Grants of Land Appropriated for Military Services and for the Society of the United Brethren for Propagating the Christian Gospel among the Heathen" 3 times Jefferson voted to extend this act... In foreign affairs Jefferson sought to represent America as a Christian nation. Before the Treaty of Peace and Amity at Tripoli was ratified on June 4, 1804, Jefferson PERSONALLY required a particular clause (article XI) to be removed from the articles language. This clause stated that the United States "is not, in any sense, founded on Christian religion". On and on and on it goes....I have hundreds of em!!! Let's PLAY! GAME ON! so, who exactly are you quoting? seems like you're quoting someone with an agenda, who is talking about jefferson, which only demonstrates your agenda. aside from his suggestion of "perusal" (be sure to note the meaning of that word, and consider why he chose that instead of any of the other possible word choices, and consider also that there were no other texts in widespread print in English from which one could draw a general moral foundation at the time), you've got a whole lot of... not a lot. perusal of any and all religious texts makes people better citizens - believing any of it is certainly not required to benefit from reading it. there's something to learn from all significant texts, and understanding them is vital to understanding fellow citizens of all varieties. rather than manipulate his words, try to just post them as they are without the clutter of rhetoric around them.i'm sorry if it's tiring to you. persistant futility generally requires a lot of effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tonemeister87 Posted July 1, 2006 Members Share Posted July 1, 2006 I really love these long threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members indespise Posted July 1, 2006 Members Share Posted July 1, 2006 Originally posted by potaetoes did somebody say the founding fathers agreed upon christianity definitively as a moral base? actual history shows that they specifically rejected it. Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination.-Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg. -Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782 Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear. -Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787 History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes. -Thomas Jefferson to Alexander von Humboldt, Dec. 6, 1813. Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814 In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own. -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Horatio G. Spafford, March 17, 1814 And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors. -Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823 I usually avoid things like this, but JEFFERSOWNED!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members indespise Posted July 1, 2006 Members Share Posted July 1, 2006 Originally posted by guitar shmoe Why didn't our founding Fathers choose any of the MANY available eastern religions to build our nation? Are you aware of the 'barbaric' state of China and the orient during those years? Why Christianity? First off, at the time, the general US public would be incredibly unlikely to know jack {censored} about Eastern philosphy. It makes more sense to use what people know. China and Japan were far from "barbaric" at the time of our nation's dawn. Yes, they both had their ages of war, but so has every civilization, and over there it wasn't an ordeal of religious fanaticism. If you want to live an 'anti-Christian' life...be my guest! But, for the sake of public safety, lets have some rules and laws restricting people from harming or injuring others. AND...in that debate of HOW to legislate those laws, I believe it is fair and right to include Christians as well as non Christians. We have rules and laws protecting people's rights, it's facists like Ann Coulter (who you seem to agree with) that are a threat to the individual's rights. Christians have the right to vote and be involved in the legislative process, nobody is denying that, but the line is drawn when the laws they want infringe on other's rights. Not only would that stomp on the individual, it would castrate seperation of church and state, something neocons love the idea of. There is a game being played by the liberal God-haters: 'I can teach my wacky left-wing/political correct/socialistic/humanistic/homosexual/relativistic morals and ethics etc....to young impressionable kids. BUT!!! You CANNOT teach anything dealing with your Christianity and Christian worldview (under the guise of a misinterpreted First Amendment "separation church and State" hoax).... A convenient little 'secular scam' to keep the poor Christian man down! I will agree NOT to teach Christianity to young kids that don't want to learn it "IF" Liberals will agree NOT to teach their leftist "religion' to kids in schools and stop trying to legislate Christian opposition to their view as a 'hate crime'...DEAL???? This is larely sensationalist fantasy, sounds like something straight out of Bill O'Reily's mouth. Nobody is forcing "left wing propaganda" down kid's throats, you fundies are simply loosing your ability to do it yourself. Christianity, nor any religion has any place being taught as doctrine in schools. Looked at in a historical and (possibly) political conetext, yes, but your people are whining because "intelligent design" isn't, and won't being taught in science classes, because it isn't science. For someone who is supposed to follow Christ's example, you sure are a hateful bastard. Look how many times you've used terms like "Wacky left liberal God Haters", you might as well cry "INFIDELS!". My advice: Stop watching Fox News, try to live like Christ, quit whining about people who don't see the world in the same light as you, and do unto others as you would have them do unto you (which really covers it all unless you're into self mutilation)."Call yourself the victim, but it's you who walks a vicious path.". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rx jr. Posted July 1, 2006 Members Share Posted July 1, 2006 http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1292599 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members indespise Posted July 1, 2006 Members Share Posted July 1, 2006 Originally posted by rx jr. http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1292599 No thanks, the 2 debate threads I'm working here are plenty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members indespise Posted July 1, 2006 Members Share Posted July 1, 2006 Rebuttal, please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Loghead Posted July 1, 2006 Members Share Posted July 1, 2006 Originally posted by indespise Rebuttal, please? From whom? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members indespise Posted July 1, 2006 Members Share Posted July 1, 2006 Originally posted by Loghead From whom? Guitar Schmoe, the one who's adamantly defending the initial post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members potaetoes Posted July 1, 2006 Members Share Posted July 1, 2006 apparently "game on" means he's going to run and google things to look for support for his arguments, which explains why he hasn't been back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Loghead Posted July 1, 2006 Members Share Posted July 1, 2006 Originally posted by indespise Guitar Schmoe, the one who's adamantly defending the initial post. Really? The initial post is totally nuts. So, we're going to Hell in a hand basket because Congress doesn't want to make flag burning a priority? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members indespise Posted July 2, 2006 Members Share Posted July 2, 2006 Originally posted by Loghead Really? The initial post is totally nuts. So, we're going to Hell in a hand basket because Congress doesn't want to make flag burning a priority? That, gays wanting to get married, and the fact that less people belive in his God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tonemeister87 Posted July 2, 2006 Members Share Posted July 2, 2006 Originally posted by Tonemeister69 I really love these long threads. So do I. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Loghead Posted July 2, 2006 Members Share Posted July 2, 2006 Originally posted by indespise That, gays wanting to get married, and the fact that less people belive in his God. Whatever happened to blaming marijuana for all of society's ills? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members potaetoes Posted July 2, 2006 Members Share Posted July 2, 2006 Originally posted by Loghead Whatever happened to blaming marijuana for all of society's ills? cheech and chong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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