So: Does the Electro 3 action suck as bad as the Electro 2 action?

[pinkfloydcramer61]

Sorry for the loaded question, but I tried to ask more nicely in another E3 thread and was ignored.

[mate_stubb]

Suck for what purpose? Piano?

[pinkfloydcramer61]

Actually, I didn't mind so much playing piano on an E2- even though it was a light action for piano. I couldn't deal it for organ, though- other than for chords, glisses and some basic riffing. Any extended runs came out choppier than what I did on other boards- so I returned it for an E2 rack. Just curious if anyone else felt this way- and if the E3 is any different.

 

It seems the E2 started a trend, action-wise, because of it's success. I returned both an EMU VK-6 and an M-Audio controller, later on, that used a similar, too-heavily sprung (for me) action. I was happier controlling the E2 rack's sounds with a DP.

 

Willing to consider that my technique is at fault, not the E2 keybed.

[mate_stubb]

Electro has a fairly authentic organ action. Perhaps you have not played much organ?

 

It requires a whole 'nother technique - one which is more precise in terms of holding notes their correct length. Otherwise, it sounds choppy.

[Franz Schiller]

I think I have to agree with way2def here.

 

I really dislike the Electros action. When I was choosing between the Hammond XK1 and Electro 2 a long time ago, the XK's action felt amazing next to the Electro. Literally. They were next to each other in a GC.

 

Of course, once I played an XK3c, it was like a revelation.

 

That's not to say that the Electro action isn't playable. Its ok, and I'm sure anyone could become acclimated to it.

[AnotherScott]

 

Actually, I didn't mind so much playing piano on an E2- even though it was a light action for piano. I couldn't deal it for organ, though- other than for chords, glisses and some basic riffing. Any extended runs came out choppier than what I did on other boards- so I returned it for an E2 rack. Just curious if anyone else felt this way- and if the E3 is any different. It seems the E2 started a trend, action-wise, because of it's success. I returned both an EMU VK-6 and an M-Audio controller, later on, that used a similar, too-heavily sprung (for me) action. I was happier controlling the E2 rack's sounds with a DP. Willing to consider that my technique is at fault, not the E2 keybed.

 

 

Surprising that your complaint was more with the organ feel than the piano, as the more common complaint is the other way around.

 

Even more surprising if the DP you preferred had a weighted action, since most people find that's about the worst possible action for organ playing.

 

Anyway, yes, they have improved the keyboard for organ playing in the E3... at least in that you can now alter the trigger point (how deep you need to press a key before it sounds), whereas on the E2, this could not be changed. As to whether you will like it, there's no way for any of us to tell you. But it is different, so it is at least worth checking out. When you do, be sure to check the "Organ Trig Mode" in the System Settings so you can try it with both settings and see if either one feels good to you.

[pinkfloydcramer61]

Electro has a fairly authentic organ action. Perhaps you have not played much organ? It requires a whole 'nother technique - one which is more precise in terms of holding notes their correct length. Otherwise, it sounds choppy.

 

As far as authentic goes, I owned a good condition A100 for a couple years and did notice it had some of the same characteristics of the Electro, action-wise. The difference was one of degree as the Electro had stiffer springs. I doubt even a pristine Hammond is as stiffly sprung.

 

I admit to being more piano-centric, as a player (although have been playing synth-keys since '85). My fingers are more agreeable to the "escapement" of a hammer action, or to keys such as that of a VK-7 that have metal strips on the underside, that do not push back after being depressed. Also realize now that piano sounds, that decay, do not expose less-than-precise release times to the extent an organ sound does.

 

Was thinking I might conjure up groovatious here for some input. He plays some pretty incricate stuff and has never bitched about the Electro action. Don't know how much organ he plays, though..

 

Thanks for your input!

[pinkfloydcramer61]

 

Even more surprising if the DP you preferred had a weighted action, since most people find that's about the worst possible action for organ playing.

 

 

Playing organ from a weighted action is NOT ideal- harder on my hands and I'm definitely not inclined to do as many glisses- which is the main thing keeping me from sounding like an idiomatic organist (like on Al Green's records). But I don't sound like the telltale pianist playing organ, either.

 

Kanker on the MusicPlayer forum (great player) gets by pretty well playing organ on weighted keys, not that he thinks it's ideal, either.

[pinkfloydcramer61]

I'm known as someone who can go either way. I played blues gigs for years when I never even brought a piano- in fact, the Albert King-type bandleader much preferred organ- I was a good supportive player who didn't mind sustaining chords. So off I went with my Yamaha SK20.

[elsongs]

I've owned and regularly play a Nord Electro 2 for the past 6 years. For a plastic unweighted keyboard, its action is DAMN good, it's the best action of any plastic unweighted keyboard I own. I use it as a master keyboard most of the time.

 

If you're talking about the acoustic piano sound on the Electo, that's the fault of the piano sound and the limitations of the Electro's velocity switching with regards to its internal memory.

 

Sure having a weighted keyboard is better, no duh. That's not even the issue here. I believe that's why they made the Nord Stage in the first place?

 

It's all a matter of perspective anyway. Go play a cheap-ass USB controller, or a Korg M1 or and Ensoniq Mirage or something. I swear you'll have a new appreciation for the Electro.

[friendlybunny]

I think the Electro 3 has a much better organ action than the electro 2.

 

For pianos... not so hot.

[pinkfloydcramer61]

 

years. It's all a matter of perspective anyway. Go play a cheap-ass USB controller, or a Korg M1 or and Ensoniq Mirage or something. I swear you'll have a new appreciation for the Electro.

 

 

I played a Korg M1 (furnished for me at a regular casino gig)

and an ESQ Mirage/ESQ1/Roland VK7/Motif Classic/Korg Cx3v.1 for years, 4-6 nights a week. All quality actions. Which is my perspective for saying that the Electro action, for me, sucks.

[vinceg]

 

Willing to consider that my technique is at fault, not the E2 keybed.

 

 

Bingo.

 

For most of my life, I've played piano weighted things (including pianos). Classical music just for my own listening as well as being in a variety of rock bands. About year ago, I looked at my birth certificate and realized why I wasn't having any fun lugging around my 85 pound keyboard/ATA case combo. So, I bought the rig you see in my signature below.

 

When my Nord Stage arrived (eBay purchase), I was mortified. I couldn't play jack. No Beethoven, no Boston Foreplay, no Lynyrd Skynyrd, nothing. Everything came out choppy and *very* unevenly spaced as you described. I had experienced similar things in stores when I tried various keyboards out but chalked it up to my general nervousness and reluctance to "get into it" in retail store environments.

 

Well -- nothing to do but practice, of course. Things changed quickly. It came back. I also noticed I could do some things on the "soft" keybed that I could not do with equal facility on a weighted board.

 

It's just a different instrument. You will have to adjust. In my case, I think I recognized that the organ style action was more difficult because I needed to control the release muscle movement. On a piano, I think I'm more focused on the downstroke. The weighted action handles the release. On the organ, I had to be more aware of the upstroke to get evenly spaced notes at high speed. Of course, after a little while, you don't think about it anymore. It just happens. I now enjoy going back and forth between instruments playing the same and also different things.

 

If you play more than one instrument, you probably have noticed the same thing. Whether it's a different kind/style of guitar, trumpet, or whatever. You'll generally find some adjustments to be necessary.

 

FWIW

 

V

[pinkfloydcramer61]

vince- great post! Helpful and enlightening, validated my experience and concgerns so far. I gotta go to a gig (V5/Ventilator controlled with Yamaha S30, Electro II rack is in the shop). Thanks, talk more later..

[AnotherScott]

 

I gotta go to a gig (V5/Ventilator controlled with Yamaha S30, Electro II rack is in the shop). .

 

 

The Yamaha S30 is a really nice feeling board for organ. You mentioned earlier you use often use a DP, but if you have an S30, that's a lot nicer.

 

It sounds like you're only using the V5/Vent because the E2 is in the shop? I think the V5/Vent sounds better than the E2, you found otherwise?

[eric]

Neither action sucks.

[pinkfloydcramer61]

But ERIC. The Nord Electro action DOES suck- for me.

 

I admit that if I applied myself, I might be able to relearn, or at least, shore up my technique and learn to love playing an E3. But WHY- if for no additional effort or time investment, I'm pretty much already there if I play a Roland VK8, Korg CX3II, or Hammond XK series? The only reason I have a problem with the Nord "compromise" action, is the action relies on significantly stiffer springs than you will find on any classic tonewheel Hammond. So far noone has disputed that.

 

And it's a damn shame- for ME and IMO (blah blah etc.) Because I think Clavia/Nord is a GREAT company that offers PHENOMENAL sounds for the serious retro-oriented, professional (or otherwise) keyboard player. And the E2/3 action is definitely NOT cheap-feeling, or cheaply made. It's just not for me. So please, nobody get their panties in a wad thinking I'm slamming the company. The company is doing the right thing, business-wise, because I admit to being in the minority. I just hope I'm rich enough to get a Korg SV-1 with an XK3c on upper tier..

[eric]

I don't think the springs are "significantly" stiffer...just a little bit stiffer. Most people forget that the action on the NE2 and NE3 is the exact same action on the Korg CX3 (modern version) with slightly stiffer springs. I like the stiffness and it feels nearly identical to my 1963 A-101 tonewheel organ. I consider the action very pummel-worthy. It may take just a little bit of time to acclimate, but it is not too big of a deal as far as I can tell.

[pinkfloydcramer61]

Hear ya. The CX3II plays like a dream- love it. With that in mind (CX3II action=NE2 action but stiffer springs) wouldn't it be possible to simply have a tech replace the NE3 springs with CX3 springs? And then I'll have to find something else to bitch about.

[pinkfloydcramer61]

 

It sounds like you're only using the V5/Vent because the E2 is in the shop? I think the V5/Vent sounds better than the E2, you found otherwise?

 

 

I think the V5/Vent combo DOES sound better than the standalone E2 rack. But for gigging I lke the E2rack+Vent combo- mainly because of the E2's much better C/V. (I know it's not the most authentic, but it sounds good to me). The Vent adds such a nice grind to the E2 sound, too.

 

For playing at home (where I'm a closet heathern-gospel musician) I much prefer the Voce with it's tone and drawbars.