keyboard players underestimate guitars and guitarists for that matter

[SoundwaveLove]

I have realized this after recent post of a guitarist asking for help with a keyboard to grow with and responses he got . For many of us guitar is a wooden box or plank with 6 or 4 wires, some screws and one or 2 pickups. When we think about it and listen to Carlos Santana or Pat Matheny we quickly agree there is much more to it. I'd suggest then take something like that wooden box or plank in your hands and play some good music with then we talk. Today's keyboards almost play by themselves, to play a guitar well you still have to have some technique and ear. I think there is some misconception about keyboard being the most difficult and prestigious instrument out there. The acoustic piano maybe is not a keyboard. So why we disregard guitarist? I don't get it...

 

 

 

 

ROLF, this is exactly why i make fun of guitar players. For some reason they're into stuff that's "hard to do" just because it's hard. What a laugh riot. It's about the music, not about dexterity and acrobatics. If someone makes the worlds best music by pressing one button, i'm going to listen to that over Joe Satrianis epic fretboard feats that sound {censored}ing awful.

 

Of course keyboard don't actually play themselves, you're thinking of patches and demos, and no one uses those. A plank picker can't understand the hours and weeks of work that go into programming a composing with synths, they don't get how it works, so they just decide "hey that keyboard is playing itself, and God created the world 6000 years ago!

 

This is not all guitarist, I'm better at guitar then keys myself, but it's is many many guitarists i talked to, including the OP

[pogo97]

 

 

 

ugh

 

right up there with keys trying to sound like electric guitar;

you get the basic notes but completely miss the important stuff

 

useful ONLY as a placeholder

 

edit: I imagine this will offend some of you who use synth drums in your electronic compositions. If that's your genre, so be it. But for most other music, if you could afford one (and didn't mind them stealing all the chicks) wouldn't you rather have a real drummer?

[Thorhead]

 

ugh right up there with keys trying to sound like electric guitar; you get the basic notes but completely miss the important stuff useful ONLY as a placeholder

 

 

[YOUTUBE]orARkzmubZk[/YOUTUBE]

 

Except I find it sounds quiet good.

 

Sorry, just had to cause I totally meant the drum video as a joke.

[pogo97]

Samuel Johnson: "Sir, a woman's preaching is like a dog's walking on his hind legs. It is not done well; but you are surprised to find it done at all."

[tremens]

when it comes to bands ,, its more a matter of how well the musicans work together than it is any super star ability. great bands are made up of the sums of the parts. I know great keyboard people that can only function well as a solo act... I know great power trio guitar players that cant work with rhythm guitar or a keyboard. its really about the whole band and the musicans ability to work and play with other musicans to get a good sound.

 

Plenty of examples where great individuals/star played in one band and even were fighting sometimes among each other still have been able to create great records.

 

Best example Deep Purple one of the best rock guitarist with one of the best rock keyboardist mixed with with one of the best rock drummers and vocalists... Look at them like keyboardist fights with guitarist using their instruments not with words

 

[YOUTUBE]U8FtqOzZwIg[/YOUTUBE]

[tremens]

I've just asked same question on guitar forum, it should be fun

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?p=40930703#post40930703

[Minocan]

 

Seriously though, in a live band both guys need each other

[tremens]

looks like they criticize the most the fact we use all 10 fingers most of the time...how about a cut a few?

[Thorhead]

FAQ:

 

Q:

 

Why guitar shouldn't ever have been invented

 

Answer:

 

[YOUTUBE]_yizTvuq3Jo[/YOUTUBE]

[Purity_Control]

I used to know a guitarist who claimed to have been in like about 30 bands by the age of 25, after a while i started to figure out that most of them were either the same band that changed it's name every few days or ones he formed at school with 2 friends at morning break and they thought of the name then split up before lunchtime without anyone ever actually picking up an instrument.

 

Being very shy back then, it tool me a while to pluck up the courage to ask the guy if any of these alleged bands he'd ever been in had actually played a gig, to which he proudly told me that one of them did a 'real gig' at his school end of year performance.

[Mediterranean]

I used to know a guitarist who claimed to have been in like about 30 bands by the age of 25, after a while i started to figure out that most of them were either the same band that changed it's name every few days or ones he formed at school with 2 friends at morning break and they thought of the name then split up before lunchtime without anyone ever actually picking up an instrument. Being very shy back then, it tool me a while to pluck up the courage to ask the guy if any of these alleged bands he'd ever been in had actually played a gig, to which he proudly told me that one of them did a 'real gig' at his school end of year performance .

 

[YOUTUBE]FjeMDvCdrtc[/YOUTUBE]

[Purity_Control]

I include that story purely for trolling purposes, but sadly, aside from my mildy malign motivation in sharing it, it is in fact entirely true.

 

After that he joined a charismatic church and became obsessed with leading worship and Delerious?, The Violet Burning and any other worship band that ever actually had some kind of success.

[MickeyKeys]

I have to say I find this whole thing rather interesting and amusing.

 

And in the end about as logical and mature as two eight year old boys saying

 

"My weenie's bigger than yours!"

"Is NOT!"

"Is TOO!"

 

As a matter of fact, if you accept the Freudian thing of a guitar with a long neck acting as a penis extension, it probably explains a lot of the insecurity that makes most guitarists I've met so problematical to deal with.

 

So I may regret responding to this one, but here are some of my observations (from a KB player's standpoint).

 

The typical "guitartist" (deliberate misspelling) in my experience:

 

Thinks he is and always should be the main focus of the band, and the loudest thing out there.

 

His only sense of dynamics is bred from the certainty that everyone else needs to practice them to stay out of his way so he can wail, wank, and warble to his heart's content, often whether or not it's needed in the actual context of the song.

 

I've heard a quote attributed to Stevie Ray Vaughn which I'll probably mangle here, but here goes:

 

"I spent the first part of my life learning how to play everything, and I've spent the rest of it learning what not to play".

 

It encapsulates a philosophy that has with few exceptions totally eluded the typical "guitartist" I've met, who thinks that he has right of first refusal on every scrap of sonic space in the spectrum which the musical gods put there for him alone to fill, or occasionally parcel out to a rhythm instrument (preferably a subservient rhythm guitarist, or as a last resort me), as he sees fit.

 

He thinks that I have delusions of Elton John, Billy Joel, or Bruce Hornsby, but that the music gods really put me there simply there to be the occasional (and not TOO prominent):

 

Billy Powell to his delusion of Gary Rossington

Bobby Whitlock/Jim Gordon to his delusion of Eric Clapton

Nicky Hopkins to his delusion of Keith Richards

 

And Heaven forbid I should want to be any more than that occasionally. Then to him my ego has run away; I'm out of control and now a cancer in the band. Because there ain't no room for two egos in his carefully ordered universe.

 

To be fair, the typical keyboardist has his problems too. I don't encounter their ugly side that often; there seems to be a professional camaraderie that I've not noticed that much among "guitartists", some of whom I've noticed can be downright catty.

 

But the popular perceptions I have noticed that guitarists harbor over the years seem to be:

 

We're nerdy gearheads.

 

I think this applies to musos in general, but I gotta say I think we are a bit more nerdy about it.

 

We'll argue endlessly about chord extensions and intervals and bog down practice.

 

Well if most "guitartists" would learn a bit of theory and learn to leave us some room to play most of the arguments wouldn't happen in the first place!

 

(REALLY HAPPENED)

"You're wrong, that's not an F#m7, I play an A there, but I tell the bass player to hit an F# because it sounds better there."

Uh, HELLOOOO.....

 

Frankly when I've run into those types I shrug my shoulders and play the hell what I want during his onanistic wankfest. 999-to-1 he doesn't listen to what I'm playing and everyone else likes it.

 

We're mercenaries with no sense of band loyalty.

 

Hmph. Ridiculous. Doesn't everybody want to get paid? . I've known musical "whores" on every instrument. As for me, once I'm set up, I play for free.

 

I expect to get reimbursed to partly defray (because it NEVER catches up) the purchases of gear, gas, a vehicle to haul it in, and for time spent at home learning and researching this "second job" instead of doing things other people do.

I could be resting/unwinding after busting my ass in my day job.

I could be spending an evening with the ones I love.

Most weeknights the last thing I want to do is out up with a self-centered Song Nazi, but I drag myself to rehearsal anyway.

 

So don't tell me I'm a flippin' mercenary with no love for the music. You wanna be a martyr in the poorhouse for your "art", have at it. My "hobby" is at least going to amortize itself now unless it stays in the den. Then you'll have to look for another fool to do this.

 

We're egotists.

 

Unfortunately there's some truth to this. I've heard tell of (and actually have replaced) players who:

 

" who want to now butcher my instrument in addition to yours, thinking it's less complex and can be mastered in a few weeks, I say: HA! Have at it.

 

The attitude problem is yours, not mine.

 

I have no such illusions about learning the complexities of guitar. I have a wealth of admiration for GOOD guitarists who are not affected by rectal-cranial inversion; I just haven't met that many.

 

Just know this: in all probability, you will spend three to six months learning just enough to be occasionally competent and author a few train wrecks at rehearsals.

 

Maybe you'll even be able to do four or five scales and some basic chord inversions.

 

Depending on how well you know theory and can translate it from the fretboard to the keyboard, you may even be able to accelerate your climb to mediocrity.

 

But you will spend years getting really good at it if you want to take it even semi-seriously.

[rhat]

 

 

 

 

Yup but that doesnt make it any less of a pain in the ass. when it stops being fun ,, its time to move on.

[soundwave106]

Best example Deep Purple one of the best rock guitarist with one of the best rock keyboardist mixed with with one of the best rock drummers and vocalists... Look at them like keyboardist fights with guitarist using their instruments not with words

 

If Ritchie Blackmore were like some guitarists, he would have insisted that Jon Lord never solo, and just provide some background fill that he could noodle over.

 

Many a Deep Purple song is constructed to give equal noodling time to both noodlers. That's the way it should be done.

[rhat]

The thing I always get from guitar players is the comment that ,, with the keys it just really fills out the band. I think its just the nature of the instrument. Its the mix of chord/ percussion that makes it unique.

[soundwave106]

The thing I always get from guitar players is the comment that ,, with the keys it just really fills out the band. I think its just the nature of the instrument. Its the mix of chord/ percussion that makes it unique.

 

Synths are great for softer, sustained sounds that don't stand out... thus acting as the atypical "pad" that fills empty space in a song. So there is definitely that.

 

Synths can also can be the entire band, as a hell of a lot of today's pop and alternative music is showing.

 

A good test of pro guitarist vs. egotistical guitarist would be how well they could adapt to a role reversed from standard rock and roll (which a lot of today's pop is, and in fact was before even in some cases). "I just wrote an electro-pop song on the DAW, wouldn't it be awesome to add a little syncopated guitar strumming in the background?" See how many actually know how to play in the background.

[akliner]

This thread is completely asinine. Each instrument brings a variety of strengths and limitations to the art and craft of making music. I'm a collaborator-- pure and simple. By nature (and training), I'm a keyboardist. I add piano and keyboard to any sort of collaborative music process. There are things I can add to a mix that a guitarist can't; there are things a guitarist can add to the mix that I can't.

 

I don't understand the point of this argument. . When I lived on the east coast, my favorite collaborator was a guitarist. I couldn't play his instrument; he couldn't play mine. The goal was to make music...not have a pissing contest over who was more technically proficient.

 

Frankly, anybody who advocates avidly that either the guitar or keyboard are without substantial merit, probably isn't good enough at his/her own instrument to really even appreciate somebody else's instrument.

 

To the OP: here at KSS, we get a lot of guitarists who ask which $400 keyboard they should purchase for their first keyed instrument. Typically, they want it to do EVERYTHING, and sound great. We try to explain that no such instrument exists, and to truly achieve quality sampled sounds (ie piano, organ, strings, brass, etc.), the price tag needs to approach four digits. Keyboarding is an expensive occupation. When we share this information with our guitarist-crossover colleagues, we are often met with a "YOU GUYS ARE SNOBS. IT SHOULD NOT BE THAT MUCH MONEY" kind of attitude. This is where our tendency to poke fun of guitarists comes from.

 

Just FYI.

[Umbra]

Where do I get a 1960's gibson for around $400?

[Thorhead]

This thread is completely asinine. Each instrument brings a variety of strengths and limitations to the art and craft of making music. I'm a collaborator-- pure and simple. By nature (and training), I'm a keyboardist. I add piano and keyboard to any sort of collaborative music process. There are things I can add to a mix that a guitarist can't; there are things a guitarist can add to the mix that I can't. I don't understand the point of this argument. . When I lived on the east coast, my favorite collaborator was a guitarist. I couldn't play his instrument; he couldn't play mine. The goal was to make music...not have a pissing contest over who was more technically proficient. Frankly, anybody who advocates avidly that either the guitar or keyboard are without substantial merit, probably isn't good enough at his/her own instrument to really even appreciate somebody else's instrument. To the OP: here at KSS, we get a lot of guitarists who ask which $400 keyboard they should purchase for their first keyed instrument. Typically, they want it to do EVERYTHING, and sound great . We try to explain that no such instrument exists, and to truly achieve quality sampled sounds (ie piano, organ, strings, brass, etc.), the price tag needs to approach four digits. Keyboarding is an expensive occupation. When we share this information with our guitarist-crossover colleagues, we are often met with a "YOU GUYS ARE SNOBS. IT SHOULD NOT BE THAT MUCH MONEY" kind of attitude. This is where our tendency to poke fun of guitarists comes from. Just FYI.

 

 

Would a microKorg do?

[rhat]

 

Where do I get a 1960's gibson for around $400?

 

 

at any music store in 1969

[Purity_Control]

This thread is completely asinine.

 

Only at face value.

 

The real idea is that guitarists and keyboard players troll each other. On a keyboard forum

[akliner]

Only at face value. The real idea is that guitarists and keyboard players troll each other. On a keyboard forum

 

 

I've trolled AMPS. But only because of the douchey attitude of the forumites-- not out of disrespect for the GUITAR as an INSTRUMENT.

[pogo97]

 

at any music store in 1969

 

 

thank you; made me smile

[SynthEnthusiast]

 

 

 

That was extremely bad

 

I don't know what was worse,the singing or the pathetic keyboard player...