JCM2000 DSL 50 - What a piece of crap

[blackba]

Originally posted by danbronson I really do doubt that was the problem. Both the DSLs I tried had the exact same tonal faults, and my friend assures me that it was very recently retubed with good tubes.

Let's be a little more vague, what tube brands?

You have been pretty vague with details the whole time, you use 1 guitar. Don't check the tubes. Don't explain the style of music you are testing with. Let's get some more details. Otherwise its just a bitch fest.

So you think your JCM800 is much better than the DSL, we get it. Many people agree with you, many don't. Not sure what the point of this thread is other than to have a long flame fest.

BTW I have never owned a DSL, TSL or JCM800 and you can knock my silver jubilee all you want.

[danbronson]

Originally posted by blackba Let's be a little more vague, what tube brands? You have been pretty vague with details the whole time, you use 1 guitar. Don't check the tubes. Don't explain the style of music you are testing with. Let's get some more details. Otherwise its just a bitch fest. So you think your JCM800 is much better than the DSL, we get it. Many people agree with you, many don't. Not sure what the point of this thread is other than to have a long flame fest. BTW I have never owned a DSL, TSL or JCM800 and you can knock my silver jubilee all you want.

Jubes are great amps.

I'm really just explaining that I found the 2000 to be a crappy amp and my 800 was better. It's an amp forum, we talk about amps here right? One post should have been enough, but of course, all these people have to disagree when I am certain that it's just not as good an amp, period (subjectiveness aside). And I'm going to defend my points.

And I'm sorry I can't tell you about every single capacitor and resistor in the amp, I did a test that I considered to be very thorough and that's what I found. My friend didn't tell me what kind of tubes he'd installed in the amp, except to say that they were new and they were good.

[Ryan Turner]

Originally posted by danbronson I was pretty disappointed by the 2203Xs I played. Just get an original used, they sound better and are way cheaper.

 

 

They sound the same to me and I A/Bed old ones and new ones and they sound the same.

 

 

I don't know why guitarists get their panties in knot over an amp they like or don't like. Why get angry if the DSL doesn't sound like you think it should sound, is anyone making you buy it? No. So take a chill pill and cool down. You can use whatever amp you want. Same goes for the fanboys, just because someone doesn't like the amp you use, it's not the end of the world.

 

I happen to like the DSL. Does it sound like a JCM800 or Plexi? No. But it's a good way to get a high gain Marshall tone for a cheap price (at least used). I think the amp is far from crappy and it seems ALOT of other people feel the same way.

 

And anyone who says the JCM 900 sounds way better than a DSL needs to get their ears checked. They are a hair's difference between each other, distortion wise. The DSL has a better clean and more tonal options and that's about it.

[YK13]

MARSHALLS SOUND GOOD ONLY CRANKED!

[TomCTC]

I used to play a DSL 50, it was my first tube amp.

I thought it sounded pretty good then, and listening back to recordings of it now I can still hear the qualities of it and like how it sounded.
+1 on throwing good tubes in it, though.

Would I buy another one, however? No. After hearing what other amps could do, I'm not convinced a DSL would fit what I need out of an amp, distortion-wise.

Whatever works for you, use it!

[Rodimus Prime]

i dunno, guys. Amps are like pants, right... or shoes. You've gotta find your fit. I never had a problem sounding good with my DSL, but plug me into a rectumfire and I (me of all people) don't sound as good.

I've heard so many guys playing amps that people swear by around here, and to me they all sound like right {censored}e.

It has so much to do with expectations and matching how you play. Marshall makes some great amps and there are alot of amazing professional recordings that have been made with the DSL.

[YK13]

another thing is that on most festivals BIG gigs etc. you see DSLs sometimes peaveys and older 900 and 800 (but I heard promoters prefer the DSLs anymore as they are newer)

[JamesPeters]

Originally posted by danbronson The tubes are brand new and quality. The bias should be fine and even if it isn't, it won't cause the tonal problems I'm hearing.

Such large assumptions for someone who presumed his own JCM800 was shrill sounding until I changed a few 12AX7s in it. And if I recall correctly, you assumed the existing preamp tubes were "good" too.

That amp may not be my favorite, but you absolutely cannot judge it adequately until you tube it well and bias it properly.

[Rich]

Originally posted by JamesPeters Such large assumptions for someone who presumed his own JCM800 was shrill sounding until I changed a few 12AX7s in it. And if I recall correctly, you assumed the existing preamp tubes were "good" too. That amp may not be my favorite, but you absolutely cannot judge it adequately until you tube it well and bias it properly.

Yepper!

[Pigsinzen]

Originally posted by blackba I have yet to see amps killing each other either.

Me either! No killing, no raping, no eating for breakfast. NONE OF THIS!?

Do they need to be biased a certain way to get them to do this?

[Guest Anonymous]

My DSL50 sounded like ass until I began experimenting with tubes, bias settings, and speakers. I can get some good sounds out of the red channel, but my favorite setup is the green channel in clean mode, with the gain set to 1 and the volume set to 6. I control the gain and the volume with a Maxon Distortion Master. I played on it for two hours tonight and had an absolute blast.

[Pigsinzen]

Originally posted by danbronson All you guys claiming your DSLs sound good have never put a JCM800 in their place, have you?

 

I have. I like the DSLs better. Some don't like 800s as well has the 900-->2000 models.

 

I don't understand why this is such a big deal to people

 

Tone is subjective.

 

Originally posted by Chudanez The 6100LM owned the JCM800 though.

 

Did you have to set the bias differently for it to be able to own another amp?

 

Was this like slave owning, or bought at the store owning?

 

Originally posted by Chudanez Problem is, it was the opposite for me with the TSL and the 800. The TSL sounded fatter and rounder whereas the 800 just sounded chainsaw'y

 

Same deal with my 900 compared to my 800 I sold.

 

Originally posted by FuelGTRX I don't know why guitarists get their panties in knot over an amp they like or don't like. Why get angry if the DSL doesn't sound like you think it should sound, is anyone making you buy it? No. So take a chill pill and cool down. You can use whatever amp you want. Same goes for the fanboys, just because someone doesn't like the amp you use, it's not the end of the world.

 

BINGO!!! I never understood this at all either.

 

And anyone who says the JCM 900 sounds way better than a DSL needs to get their ears checked. They are a hair's difference between each other, distortion wise. The DSL has a better clean and more tonal options and that's about it.

 

I think they sound about the same as well. That is why I never upgraded to a DSL. I am not so sure about the DSLs cleans sounding better. They sound pretty much the same to me.

 

The real trick and magic to make these cleans work is to put some light compression in the front. You can really get that clean Fender sound.

 

Originally posted by YK13 MARSHALLS SOUND GOOD ONLY CRANKED!

 

No, Marshalls sound BETTER cranked. Mine sounds good at any volume.

[danbronson]

Originally posted by JamesPeters Such large assumptions for someone who presumed his own JCM800 was shrill sounding until I changed a few 12AX7s in it. And if I recall correctly, you assumed the existing preamp tubes were "good" too. That amp may not be my favorite, but you absolutely cannot judge it adequately until you tube it well and bias it properly.

Grrr... You suck.

Okay, I'm making an assumption because the two 2000s I played had different tubes in them and the exact same low midrange problem and fizzy high end. I think it's relatively safe to assume it's the amp, not the tubes when you hear it regardless. I can't speak for the bias.

So yeah, I'm PRETTY SURE I think the JCM2000 is a terrible sounding amp. Is this alright with everyone??? Or am I not allowed opinions anymore at all?

[JamesPeters]

Originally posted by danbronson Grrr... You suck. Okay, I'm making an assumption because the two 2000s I played had different tubes in them and the exact same low midrange problem and fizzy high end. I think it's relatively safe to assume it's the amp, not the tubes when you hear it regardless. I can't speak for the bias. So yeah, I'm PRETTY SURE I think the JCM2000 is a terrible sounding amp. Is this alright with everyone??? Or am I not allowed opinions anymore at all?

I'll put it to you this way--the last JCM2000 I heard was at an ampfest, and it held up quite well among all the high gain amps there. Lots of people gave it credit.

Yes, it's very possible both those amps you heard had tubes which weren't the best, just as your JCM800, with MARSHALL BRANDED ECC83 in them (as other JCM800s shipped) sounded that way. That isn't hard to understand, is it?

[SuperStrat]

Originally posted by danbronson Grrr... You suck. Okay, I'm making an assumption because the two 2000s I played had different tubes in them and the exact same low midrange problem and fizzy high end. I think it's relatively safe to assume it's the amp, not the tubes when you hear it regardless. I can't speak for the bias. So yeah, I'm PRETTY SURE I think the JCM2000 is a terrible sounding amp. Is this alright with everyone??? Or am I not allowed opinions anymore at all?

How loud were you playing it? Mine absolutely loved a hotplate.... the fizz went away when properly biased and played at volume.

But hey..... if you hate it, you hate it. There are a lot of amps out there, good luck finding one that floats your boat.

[1big1]

+1 on the right tubes.. proper biasing.. and playing them cranked up a bit. done all three of those with mine and i'm happy with it.
i'm running jj e 34 l's biased at 36 mv.. i put an rft in v-1.. and play it on at least three on the master.. though the sweet spot seems to be around four. the jj's help tame that bright.. thin sound and beef up the low mids and lows. i don't use the deep or tone shift bottons at all. once you crank it to a certain point it doesn't make any difference. that's how i found the sweet spot. when the deep switch does nothing.. i'm golden. i add bass and mids to taste and roll the treble back down. if i want the notes to have edge without being piercing i add presence.
i will probably continue to tweak using different pre amp tubes in v-2.. but i have a good base tube compliment right now and can always go back to it if my experiments head in the wrong direction.

[xbryanx]

Originally posted by batotman I changed a few preamp tubes to high gain JJ's. One of my favorite amps. The Deep Switch makes that amp for me.

 

 

yes i now own this amp and i concer that changing the preamp tubes helps A LOT. i played a gig last night with 9 other bands, 3 of them also had DSL50 half stacks. one kid actually used the exact same set up as me, les paul studio into a dsl50 and i was sittinging in the back thinking "wow does that kid just suck cause hes 12 or does his amp sound like {censored}?" same with all the other kids who used a dsl50, it seriously didnt cut through at all. but my dsl50 with the high gain JJ's is like butter, cuts through my bandmates TRIPLE RECTIFER like nothing

[1big1]

the stock marshall labeled pre amp tubes appear to be sovteks. at least the ones in mine looked very similar to a sovtek. i compared it to a sovtek wb that i have and they both sound grainy to my ears. the rft on the other hand seems to fit quite well in v-1. it gives the amp that classic marshall tone and bite without any fizz.
the plate voltage on the mains is around 440-445 volts. do the math at 60% dissipation and + or- 5% because of the way the circuit is constructed and you should come up with a bias range of around 32 to 40 mv.. not the 45 the factory bulletin states. say goodbye to that brittleness.
i've also got a low milage amperex bugle boy i could try in v-1. they don't get talked about much on here.. but they are damn near as good as a mullard.. imho.

[Slaytallica]

DSL 50 Vs Dual Rec


The Dual rec is twice as loud thats why. The DSL is a 50 watt head the dual is a 100 watts which is why he get covered on stage. DSL 100 are the {censored} they sound pretty good IMO.

[blackba]

Originally posted by danbronson Jubes are great amps. I'm really just explaining that I found the 2000 to be a crappy amp and my 800 was better. It's an amp forum, we talk about amps here right? One post should have been enough, but of course, all these people have to disagree when I am certain that it's just not as good an amp, period (subjectiveness aside). And I'm going to defend my points. And I'm sorry I can't tell you about every single capacitor and resistor in the amp, I did a test that I considered to be very thorough and that's what I found. My friend didn't tell me what kind of tubes he'd installed in the amp, except to say that they were new and they were good.

I am just trying to get information from your posts that would be useful. Knowing the type of tubes, music being played, exact guitar or guitars used, would help me. This is an amp forum to share information about amps, all you have shared is that you think the JCM800 is better than the DSL50.

Obviously clips would have been nice, but just more information in general. I am not attacking your opinion, just that you didn't come with much information I could use if I were going to buy a DSL/TSL or JCM800, which I have considered in the past.

BTW, I was wrong about not owning a DSL, I owned the DSL401 combo. Sometimes I like to forget about that amp:D And if someone asks me about the DSL401 I can clearly tell you the best speakers/tubes/guitars for that amp, IMO of course.

[1big1]

maybe the jubilee suits you better.
if you have a grainy sounding pre amp tube compliment and add the over-bias factor into the mix you're going to get something that sounds like poo.

[xbryanx]

Originally posted by Slaytallica DSL 50 Vs Dual Rec The Dual rec is twice as loud thats why. The DSL is a 50 watt head the dual is a 100 watts which is why he get covered on stage. DSL 100 are the {censored} they sound pretty good IMO.

oh my GOD dude... :freak: :freak:

i hope that was sarcastic, or else put your flame suit on.

[Chudanez]

Originally posted by Slaytallica DSL 50 Vs Dual Rec The Dual rec is twice as loud thats why. The DSL is a 50 watt head the dual is a 100 watts which is why he get covered on stage. DSL 100 are the {censored} they sound pretty good IMO.

[1big1]

the difference between 50 and 100 watts is 3 db's. your ear probably isn't going to notice that.

[Knut E Evenmo]

Originally posted by Rich "sounds good" is very subjective.

Very, and always
Tone that sounds good to the owner, is good tone.
If it sounds bad, it is time to try something else.

FWIW, a buddy of mine had a dsl2000, and he used to have the best rock sound I`ve heard from a big stage. I used to borrow his FX IN for my preamps when we played the same gigs