Members Unfed Posted January 15, 2011 Members Share Posted January 15, 2011 Have you folks noticed that there's nobody screaming about how more awesome Maschine is over this? how about i be the first to scream about how much more awesome the Machinedrum is over this? pointless digital/analog argument aside, it can do pretty much anything this can do and plenty more. i'm really not quite sure what all the fuss is about. honestly, it looks like a great machine overall, but it sure isn't the "be all, end all" of drum machines. synthesis-wise, compared to a number of other devices, it seems pretty weak. it will NOT replace the 808 with this engine. the strength of something like the 808 is having almost completely different circuits for each sound/instrument. i don't think you'd be able to get anywhere near the types of claps, cymbals, and hats that you'd get from the 808. everyone sees "analog" and they don't realize how limited (in some ways) that this structure can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sad Darwin Posted January 15, 2011 Members Share Posted January 15, 2011 how about i be the first to scream about how much more awesome the Machinedrum is over this? pointless digital/analog argument aside, it can do pretty much anything this can do and plenty more. QFT This is exactly what I've been saying on the effects forum. I'd much rather have a Machine Drum. And it's waaaaaay cheaper, even new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MuzikB Posted January 16, 2011 Members Share Posted January 16, 2011 how about i be the first to scream about how much more awesome the Machinedrum is over this? pointless digital/analog argument aside, it can do pretty much anything this can do and plenty more. i'm really not quite sure what all the fuss is about. honestly, it looks like a great machine overall, but it sure isn't the "be all, end all" of drum machines. synthesis-wise, compared to a number of other devices, it seems pretty weak. it will NOT replace the 808 with this engine. the strength of something like the 808 is having almost completely different circuits for each sound/instrument. i don't think you'd be able to get anywhere near the types of claps, cymbals, and hats that you'd get from the 808. everyone sees "analog" and they don't realize how limited (in some ways) that this structure can be. I agree with you there. The thing with me is that I'm happy that the Tempest IS unlike past analog drum machines and gives a much better performance dynamic than any other analog machine out there. Also, the introduction of green noise alone will make new and unique percussion sounds possible. It also appeals to me more than the Machine Drum because of Analog warmth. Especially with its' inclusion of an analog compressor. I think a Machinedrum and Tempest combo would be great though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members liliththekitten Posted January 16, 2011 Members Share Posted January 16, 2011 very cool. do want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bruto Posted January 16, 2011 Members Share Posted January 16, 2011 Nice. Very cool indeed. I'd really like to hear the it connected to a midi controller. With the sub-oscillators, it might be the best DSI poly to date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chando Posted January 16, 2011 Members Share Posted January 16, 2011 The Machinedrum's interface is great... but when it comes to analog and 12 bit sounds ... it isn't all that great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chando Posted January 16, 2011 Members Share Posted January 16, 2011 ugh... i don't think the Maschine is any less 'serious' than this is for making beats/music. I understand your point... but it let me be a dickface for a second. What does Maschine do that makes it so unique? In the grand scheme of having a sampler and a sequencer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cresshead Posted January 16, 2011 Members Share Posted January 16, 2011 this vid from namm has the audio plugged into the camera so decent sound quality [video=youtube;QQE97OmN-84] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Unfed Posted January 16, 2011 Members Share Posted January 16, 2011 What does Maschine do that makes it so unique? In the grand scheme of having a sampler and a sequencer? well, i don't think i said it was unique, but based on the way the hardware end of it interfaces with the software i guess it is. i'd definitely rather have Maschine and a laptop over the Tempest. ten years ago i would have crapped myself seeing the Tempest, but i think a bit differently about these things now. and still, $2000 is a lot of money for something so relatively limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bernard Posted January 16, 2011 Members Share Posted January 16, 2011 Check this out, Chris Hector in action via Gearwire:http://www.gearwire.com/dave-smith-tempest-analog-drum-machine-winter-namm-2011.htmlSeems like Dave is holding back on ''sustain'' Chris is push for it... Until we here it in synth mode, lets not raise too many hopes.If they can make it as fat as the Mopho (when Mopho has sub OSC and feedback etc) then this is really interesting.Does anyone know if its all encoder or are there pots on most like the Mopho KBD...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bernard Posted January 16, 2011 Members Share Posted January 16, 2011 ''I will add MIDI sequencing of external gear in the first version of the software. It may be rather simplistic in nature compared to what I want to do, but will basically be done as follows in OS 1.0:Instead of a sound on any pad you can assign it to a MIDI channel. The steps will then be able to control velocity, pitch, note duration and 4 assignable CC #s per sequence.See? I do listen!More answers: 1. The envelope time is extremely quick. 1ms increments at first (or less, honestly I haven't timed them). More than snappy enough for great drums. Also we added a peak hold time (holds the max amount between attack and decay time) on all 5 envelopes, which also starts at 1ms increments and goes to about a 3second gate at 127 2. No ring mod, sadly this is a limitation of the Curtis chip architecture 3. You probably will not be able to do wavetable sequencing ala. Evolver due to us using a different chip for digital playback. At least not in version 1.0. We'll look into this after the initial release 4. The LEDs aren't going across the pads because I didn't have time to put that into this version of the OS. It'll all be cleaned up by release 5. Just to keep clarifying... if I add things like bit crush and sample reduction, it will ONLY affect the digital sounds. The audio path is fully analog except for the digital oscillators being mixed in. Because of this and the fact that we cannot rely on samples due to the small amount of sample memory and limited digital capabilities, it is not high on the priority list. 6. The samples are limited, as we are focusing on the analog side, but have a good variety. We focused on sounds that are difficult to create using only the analog side. That includes things like wooden thumps, cymbals and hats, rimshots, claps and classic synth drum sounds that we don't have the correct circuitry to emulate well enough for our tastes (808 and 909 mostly) 7. To echo what someone else quoted, Roger's LinnDrum II will not have analog circuitry and you will hear more later this year 8. The number of tracks on the sequencer and the number of steps will be limited by the amount of fast memory we have. To do 16 beats mode where you can load up 32 new sounds AND a sequence in realtime we have to stick all 16 beats (so all 32*16 sounds and 16 sequences) in the fast memory. If we add MIDI control on the sequencer that adds quite a bit to the amount of memory it would take to store so we have to be careful how it's implemented. In version 1.0 we are focusing on making 16 beats, so the MIDI implementation may be a bit of an afterthought until version 2.0. I am keeping it in mind however and will do what I can. 9. In regards to the OLED. I'm the one who selected the part and pushed to get it in there, otherwise we would have used an LCD, so you're all welcome =). The lifetime in their spec sheet is ~20K hours, but we won't know in practice what that means until we have had them out for longer than that. Bottom line: If we find them dying, we'll replace them. If you're way out of warranty, unless something major changes it will just be our typical 25$ repair fee. You won't be out an instrument, just a few days shipping for me to fix it up. Also if you ask nice and I have one lying around I may give you a yellow or white one instead. 10. In regards to ppqn: I have been running it at 384ppqn simply because people expect it to have that resolution minimum. The processor is handling things far faster than that and the effective ppqn is probably closer to 4 times that. It just doesn't make much difference in the swing timing.__________________Chris aka. PymDave Smith Instruments '' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bernard Posted January 16, 2011 Members Share Posted January 16, 2011 '' slightly different wording and a couple extra details, from roger linn's website: Here are some of the main features of Tempest: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bernard Posted January 16, 2011 Members Share Posted January 16, 2011 ''1. Yes of course, leads, bass pads, weird stuff, etc. 2. Evolver has a lot more flexibility in the voice structure: 2 curtis chips per voice gives you separate left/right lowpass filters, individual oscillator volume control since only one is playing on either chip, etc. It also has a digital chip in the audio path, which gives us the digital highpass filter and digital effects (output hack, distortion, etc). The voice chip is slightly less powerful and limits resolution for things like the LFOs, sequencer, and envelopes. Tetra is almost the same voice structure, but has feedback gain control (Tempest is locked to a single gain) and 2 sub oscillators rather than one. The voice chip on the Tetra is focused more on synth sounds so it has 3 envelopes and 4 LFOs vs. the Tempest having 5 Envelopes and 2 LFOs per voice. The Tempest has a few things geared towards drum sounds, but none of them limit the functionality of the synth engine in any way, they simply add new options: * You have higher resolution on the envelopes and LFOs, so you have a higher frequency FM modulation possible using LFOs on the oscillators, specifically to help get good analog noise textures. Obviously this is just as useful as a synth effect. * Each of the Envelopes adds a 'peak hold' variable which holds the time between the end of the attack phase until the beginning of the decay phase to help shape the typical AD envelope and give more control over the transients. It also allows some really cool gate effects when the Attack and Decay are 0. * The analog highpass, distortion and compression are all extremely useful for drum sounds, but also can be used to create some very neat synth sounds. Honestly I think compression is underrated as a synth effect because most sound designers don't quite understand what it's capable of when you're doing some wild modulations... it's VERY powerful. I'll program some examples of this at some point to give you more of an idea of what I'm talking about * The interface on the Tempest is geared towards live drum playback, so it's fun to play in realtime. In reference to those old bumper stickers... we wanted to give this drum machine a little bit of soul. Since you can swap the envelopes from ADSR and AD, plus with the 16 tunings mode where you can assign each pad to a different note, there's no reason you couldn't tweak the interface to be a very intuitive and fun synth playback setup. You could setup the two touch faders to mimic a pitch and mod wheel setup for example, and add an additional parameter on each assigned to their pressure... that's a lot of power for performance * The Tempest is fully multitimbral and very flexible (eg., you could have 1 3 voice synth, a 2 voice synth, and a 1 voice synth comprise the 6 voices). That's something that is hard to program on any of our other synths right now. On Tempest you'll just pick the number of voices to assign to a sound and the MIDI channel to control it There will probably be more details and possibly some changes that I'll talk about closer to release Chris aka. Pym Dave Smith Instruments '' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bernard Posted January 16, 2011 Members Share Posted January 16, 2011 ''I think the bottom line on the synth/lead/bass/pads vs. drum sounds is we didn't remove anything from the engine of the Tetra/Mopho/Prophet from the voice structure... we only ADDED functionality that makes drums easier to make. With the single exception of 5 Envelopes and 2 LFOs... we took out 2 LFOs because they're not as useful in drum sounds as an additional 2 Envelopes. If we add additional curves for attack and decay for the final release (which we are talking about but all of the sounds you've heard so far have used the same envelopes as the Prophet with higher resolution) then we will have the option of selecting those curves instead of the curves on the Prophet Envelopes. The same way we added a toggle from AD to ADSR envelopes... best of both worlds!!__________________Chris aka. PymDave Smith Instruments '' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chando Posted January 16, 2011 Members Share Posted January 16, 2011 well, i don't think i said it was unique, but based on the way the hardware end of it interfaces with the software i guess it is. i'd definitely rather have Maschine and a laptop over the Tempest. I just don't see how they compare. I don't think anyone's setup is gonna be just a Tempest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sad Darwin Posted January 16, 2011 Members Share Posted January 16, 2011 Not excited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chando Posted January 16, 2011 Members Share Posted January 16, 2011 If the thought of having something equal to 6 Pearl Syncussion's in one box doesn't excite you... then yeah I can understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sad Darwin Posted January 16, 2011 Members Share Posted January 16, 2011 If the thought of having something equal to 6 Pearl Syncussion's in one box doesn't excite you... then yeah I can understand. Maybe there's something I'm not catching here, but I honestly don't see why I'd buy this over Machine Drum. At least for the type of stuff I write. I feel like a drum machine should have a deeper effects section. I'm really into heavily processed drums. A mix of Battery 3 and Machine Drum seems more the ideal for my approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chando Posted January 16, 2011 Members Share Posted January 16, 2011 I just simply don't like the sound of the Machinedrum. It's failed me live in the past.. almost everytime at soundcheck I had to tweak my patches.. sometimes you don't get a soundcheck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sad Darwin Posted January 16, 2011 Members Share Posted January 16, 2011 I just simply don't like the sound of the Machinedrum. It's failed me live in the past.. almost everytime at soundcheck I had to tweak my patches.. sometimes you don't get a soundcheck. I'm not really sure I'd rely on ANY drum machine live. When I play out I generally have the loops coming off an iPod, with all other instrumentation being played by me and my wife. If I want to process the drums further at that point to give the rhythm section a bit more of an improvisational element, I'll just run them through my pedal array. In the studio I'd prefer to actually have a bit more control over the raw sound of every drum, this would include filters and internal/external effects. The effects and sound manipulation capabilities on this machine don't seem that great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chando Posted January 16, 2011 Members Share Posted January 16, 2011 hmmm.. too each their own. I have pedals and samplers for such things.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chase Posted January 16, 2011 Members Share Posted January 16, 2011 Not excited. Yeah, we got that the first two times. Next track, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bernard Posted January 16, 2011 Members Share Posted January 16, 2011 I played the Tempest yesterday at NAMM. The demo unit was in "arrange" mode (i.e. you had to hit the "play" button, then the pads were assigned to different sequences) and I was running late so I didn't have time to switch it out to try individual sounds. However... Arrange mode is awesome and it responds really well to fast playing. I'm rather amazed that they can get the 6 voices to switch so quickly. Anyways, I'm not so jazzed about the click encoders (I was hoping one could double its use as a midi controller, but for my purposes I'd like 16 knobs without clicks) used for some parameters, but compared to the rest of its awesomeness it's really a small issue. My GAS is intact. Re encoders.. looks like your saying all are, so its not like a Mopho KeyBD with most pots and encoders only where parameters suit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sad Darwin Posted January 17, 2011 Members Share Posted January 17, 2011 Next track, please. Zing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Unfed Posted January 17, 2011 Members Share Posted January 17, 2011 If the thought of having something equal to 6 Pearl Syncussion's in one box doesn't excite you... then yeah I can understand.that's exactly what baffles me about this thing - Pearl/Tama/Simmons (simple subtractive) percussion sounds don't excite me too much at all. to an extent maybe, but i'd get bored with them eventually. the same way that something like a Juno 6/60/106 bores me, there's only so much you can do with that parameter set.you're correct in saying that most people wouldn't try building an entire live set around the Tempest, though it could probably be done (for minimal electro/techno/etc). for $2000 though, i'd hope it'd be more than 6 Pearl Syncussions in a box. i understand that the sound of the MD doesn't jive with you, but it's odd that everyone assumes that they'll love the sound of the Tempest (a number of people have complained about the sound of DSI stuff).it's great that you and others are happy with the Tempest, i just don't understand it myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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