I really want a primo amp

[lexavier]

hello,

I have been saving up, and due to lots of overtime being christmas and all, I will be able to buy good stuff very soon.

 

I need you guys to direct me on the right path for finding a great tube amp, that handles pedals extremely well. Now I am not a noob/dumbass when it comes to tubes, I know a few things. It just seems like everytime I tell someone about something I am considering, they shoot it down. A couple of days ago I had my heart set on a carvin master tube series, and I was told i would be retarted if I paid more than $400 for it. . . its getting quite irritating.

 

I was looking at mesa boogie's dual rectifier, and I was reading comments and someone complained about the fixed bias, and how it kind of limits the amp. Apparently there is a mod to change it, which I'd be willing to do . . . . I have just looked at so many goddamn amps that I dont even know where to try anymore. The only music store in my town doesn't let you turn these things passed 3, like usual, the douche bag ratio to cool people is 5,000,000,000 : 1 there.

 

anyways, What appealed to me about the carvin was the comments on how the cleans are amazing as well as the distortion. Basically : Great cleans, good distortion and can it take effects well are my main concerns . . . which I guess is everyones concern when they're looking for an amp . . . .lol.

 

Also, do you think its better to get an analog distortion pedal over a distortion pedal like the radial plexi distortion with the preamp tube in it? I had my hopes on getting that pedal, but someone told me when you mix a tube pedal with a tube amp, it wouldn't sound good . . . . .

this person may not have a goddam clue as to what hes talking about also, but I consider everyones opinion until they're actually backed up.

thanks guys!

 

Dan

[JackBootedThug]

hard to go wrong with a boogie, unless you just dont like them.

[Marc Roy]

Well, I'm completely happy with running good OD boxes through my Dr. Z, but then again, I prefer using clean amps with pedals. Dr. Z amps are really touch sensitive as well, so that takes some getting used to.

[blargh]

Tubes are not analog?

Fixed bias is not that big of a deal. Let your ears be the guide, not morons on the internet.

[HCadvisor]

You really have to think about it this way, what kind of people are writing those reviews? Are they beginners who just got something big, or is it someone whos actually played a lot of amps. My assumption would be, if your talking about a primo amp, anything is going to be better than what you have, just make sure you get a good cab.

Its hard to go wrong with a boogie.

[lexavier]

Originally posted by blargh
Tubes are not analog?

yea . . . I can follow amp talk but I honestly thought if it had a tube built in, it wasn't analog . . . sorry .

Well I was looking at the reviews on here, and you know the players would say whether or not they had experience. the ones I listened to were ofcourse the people who said they had experience with 30+ amps.

The mesa seems like it would be kick ass. Does the dual rectifier handle pedals well though? how much should I expect to pay for the head alone. should I get the mesa cab with it?

another side question. One thing im worried about is if there is "generic" V30's. if its vintage 30, its celestion I take it right? I know these are dumb questions, but these are what I consider gaps in my knowledge . . . heh, sorry.

thanks for the replies !

[blargh]

What kind of music are you playing?
What kind of tones do you go for?

[lexavier]

Originally posted by blargh What kind of music are you playing? What kind of tones do you go for?

 

 

jeff buckley type cleans with smashing pumpkins/meat puppets/ alice in chains distortion (I also like the cleans from meat puppets . . I gotta figure out what Curk kirkwood used for his neck pickup!!)

[HCadvisor]

Originally posted by lexavier jeff buckley type cleans with smashing pumpkins/meat puppets/ alice in chains distortion (I also like the cleans from meat puppets . . I gotta figure out what Curk kirkwood used for his neck pickup!!)

 

 

hmm.. fender twin and a big muff?

[lexavier]

unfortunatley I have a crate blue voodoo with the stock tubes in it . . . . from like 5 years ago , who knows, I bought it used. I dont want to put anymoney into it because I am just going to sell it anyways. . . . . IT SOUNDS SOO HORRIBLE. . .but I shouldn't complain, some people dont have any amplifiers to play out of.

[lexavier]

pertaining to the recto cabinet, with a few comments on mesa heads

"Totally unnatural one trick pony. This is a follow-up to my prior review from 2003. I see some players agreed to subjectively review the cabinet and considered the limitations of the V-30 Celestion in their reviews. I am amending my review to include some further V-30 bashing. The cone doping and resultant damping in the volumetric Recto cabinet work but only as a the aforementioned one trick pony. IMHO the V-30 is a pre-Celestion G30H abortion project. Celestion spent too much money and time trying to design a "modern-vintage" driver and it failed. They tried to pull the plug but had to sell the unwanted motherload of crap to Mesa who had the marketing muscle to hype it in the Recto product, mainly nu-metal one hit wonders, appealing to teen-agers with deep wallet parents. Black Shadows did not a MESA make. Neither do V-30s.

I'm sure some of you are offended now my apologies. BTW the mids I speak of are unnatural due to the doping. The freqencies I measured with a meter and tone generator were off the 4-6khz that you hear in every great guitar recording ever made from the beginning of time. It is a very artificial mid and not WARM at all. Think of it as a Solid State tranistor tone that is accurate at some frequencies (like "doped" bass and edgy mids) but sterile. Using Mesa's unmusically overpowered flat sounding heads with scooped out mids works. Using anything else and you will not like it.

Good, Bad & Ugly depending on how used. For new metal (full of Bass and deafening drop B notes or barred chords) it's good. For rock (drop D and standard tuning)it is bad sterile. Listen close to the doping you dope and stop smoking it. For old school rock it is just plain ugly and unmusically related to anything guitar-god produced in the last 30 years. That is why my guitar gods will never use this speaker for anything relevant but "noise" reinforcement.

I keep this around until I decide on G30H or Greenbacks for it. Heck the 75 which is popularly criticized still sounds warmer to me but can get as boring."


This is what deter's me. Before one of you says "dude, why do you go out and try it" I am on it! lol, asap. but from what I have been reading, some people say its great and then some people will say its not even dynamic.

what are your thoughts on the carvin MTS3200 ?

[blargh]

Originally posted by lexavier pertaining to the recto cabinet, with a few comments on mesa heads "Totally unnatural one trick pony. This is a follow-up to my prior review from 2003. I see some players agreed to subjectively review the cabinet and considered the limitations of the V-30 Celestion in their reviews. I am amending my review to include some further V-30 bashing. The cone doping and resultant damping in the volumetric Recto cabinet work but only as a the aforementioned one trick pony. IMHO the V-30 is a pre-Celestion G30H abortion project. Celestion spent too much money and time trying to design a "modern-vintage" driver and it failed. They tried to pull the plug but had to sell the unwanted motherload of crap to Mesa who had the marketing muscle to hype it in the Recto product, mainly nu-metal one hit wonders, appealing to teen-agers with deep wallet parents. Black Shadows did not a MESA make. Neither do V-30s. I'm sure some of you are offended now my apologies. BTW the mids I speak of are unnatural due to the doping. The freqencies I measured with a meter and tone generator were off the 4-6khz that you hear in every great guitar recording ever made from the beginning of time. It is a very artificial mid and not WARM at all. Think of it as a Solid State tranistor tone that is accurate at some frequencies (like "doped" bass and edgy mids) but sterile. Using Mesa's unmusically overpowered flat sounding heads with scooped out mids works. Using anything else and you will not like it. Good, Bad & Ugly depending on how used. For new metal (full of Bass and deafening drop B notes or barred chords) it's good. For rock (drop D and standard tuning)it is bad sterile. Listen close to the doping you dope and stop smoking it. For old school rock it is just plain ugly and unmusically related to anything guitar-god produced in the last 30 years. That is why my guitar gods will never use this speaker for anything relevant but "noise" reinforcement. I keep this around until I decide on G30H or Greenbacks for it. Heck the 75 which is popularly criticized still sounds warmer to me but can get as boring." This is what deter's me. Before one of you says "dude, why do you go out and try it" I am on it! lol, asap. but from what I have been reading, some people say its great and then some people will say its not even dynamic. what are your thoughts on the carvin MTS3200 ?

 

For any amp, there's a thousand people who absolutely hate it; whether it's a Mesa, a Bogner, a Diezel, etc. If you keep reading bad reviews, you will never decide on an amp. Seriously, just don't even bother with reviews, go out and play some amps, or find some clips here.

I have no idea about the MTS3200, I stay away from all things Carvin.

[HCadvisor]

Dude I hate to say it, but your being a little overboard.

If you want clean and decent dist get a fender and a pedal.

I you want an all around good amp look at the roadstars.


If v30's sucked ass so much why would we still be using them? If you want something balanced look at eminence speakers.

If you want something thats going to cover you all around get a custom amp, if not the market restricts you to buying whats out there. Carvin? How many people use carvin? How many people have used mesas, marshalls, fenders on the road without a problem on reliability. The reviews are for you to see what others like, its not what you like. Just go out and try the stuff.

Some people say.... its because they use it for different things?

What did buckley use? Mesas and fenders.

[lexavier]

you are right. Thanks for giving me that kick in the ass. I'll post back and let you guys know how the search is going!

[Majai]

What's your budget? Who are you favorite bands/guitarists?

[starsnuffer]

My recommendation is to go through an experimentation stage.

Buy used, and try to buy things that retain their value. If you don't like it, sell it for what you paid for it and try something else.

You're never going to figure it out by reading about amps. Go play through them.

-W

[rushtallica]

Originally posted by lexavier hello, I have been saving up, and due to lots of overtime being christmas and all, I will be able to buy good stuff very soon. I need you guys to direct me on the right path for finding a great tube amp, that handles pedals extremely well. Now I am not a noob/dumbass when it comes to tubes, I know a few things. It just seems like everytime I tell someone about something I am considering, they shoot it down. A couple of days ago I had my heart set on a carvin master tube series, and I was told i would be retarted if I paid more than $400 for it. . . its getting quite irritating. I was looking at mesa boogie's dual rectifier, and I was reading comments and someone complained about the fixed bias, and how it kind of limits the amp. Apparently there is a mod to change it, which I'd be willing to do . . . . I have just looked at so many goddamn amps that I dont even know where to try anymore. The only music store in my town doesn't let you turn these things passed 3, like usual, the douche bag ratio to cool people is 5,000,000,000 : 1 there. anyways, What appealed to me about the carvin was the comments on how the cleans are amazing as well as the distortion. Basically : Great cleans, good distortion and can it take effects well are my main concerns . . . which I guess is everyones concern when they're looking for an amp . . . .lol. Also, do you think its better to get an analog distortion pedal over a distortion pedal like the radial plexi distortion with the preamp tube in it? I had my hopes on getting that pedal, but someone told me when you mix a tube pedal with a tube amp, it wouldn't sound good . . . . . this person may not have a goddam clue as to what hes talking about also, but I consider everyones opinion until they're actually backed up. thanks guys! Dan

Sorry to hear about some of the crap you've been told. That said, I wasn't at all impressed with the MTS by Carvin -- and that's coming from a major fanboy of the Carvin X100B (the older 6L6 version, anyway). Then again, that's just my opinion of the amp.

Regarding fixed bias, most of the modern amps and even a good number of vintage ones have fixed bias, which in my opinion is a good thing. Unless the amp's biased extremely cold, I wouldn't worry about trying to rebias it. The 5150 is notorious for that, but I can't say I've seen many threads around about rectos being that way. That said, I'm not sure the recto's clean channel will be the best.

You might be better off with an amp that can get the majority of the sounds you want without having to pay for an expensive tube pedal. Depending on your $-flow, the Mark IV might be great since it's got a couple different levels of gain and a nice clean channel. If you're more broke like I am, the Peavey Ultra Plus is similar in that it has a low to medium gain, a high gain, and a separate clean channel.

You could also look into an F-series Mesa, though I don't have any personal experience with them. I'd recommend Marshalls, but I'm not sure you're going to get a great clean on those; maybe a DSL or TSL series, but I'd want to try one out first. Good luck.

[rushtallica]

Originally posted by HCadvisor ... If you want something thats going to cover you all around get a custom amp, if not the market restricts you to buying whats out there. Carvin? How many people use carvin? How many people have used mesas, marshalls, fenders on the road without a problem on reliability. The reviews are for you to see what others like, its not what you like. Just go out and try the stuff. Some people say.... its because they use it for different things? What did buckley use? Mesas and fenders.

Vai, Zappa, Starship's guitarist, and a number of others have used the X100B. I've spent the majority of the last 17 years playing one. They kick a lot of @ss, IMO. When boosted with a tubescreamer, the gain can get pretty mean and had my band I normally used a 5150 with impressed with how huge it sounded for gain when I wanted to bring in something with a good clean channel. That said, I didn't like the 212 MTS I tried and don't have any experience with the Legacy or V3.

I'll agree on the going out and trying them out recommendation, in any case. I can see getting caught up into biasing info, trying different speakers, etc., but only after figuring out the amp sounds at least somewhat good to begin with.

[whoop]

Originally posted by lexavier anyways, What appealed to me about the carvin was the comments on how the cleans are amazing as well as the distortion. Basically : Great cleans, good distortion and can it take effects well are my main concerns . . . which I guess is everyones concern when they're looking for an amp . . . .lol.

 

 

the cleans on the carvin MTS are excellent - clean to 10, although it doesn't have the shimmer of a fender twin. The distortion channel is good too, and it has a huge range from slightly distorted blues type sound to about 75% of the gain of a 5150. definitely an amp worth buying. i also like the carvin vai legacy, which also has a great clean channel and the distortion channel is great too - super smooth, where as the MTS is more raspy. oh yeah, the MTS loves pedals on both channels.

 

as far as rectumfriers go - they all sound like mud, but not just like mud rather like mud with a wet blanket thrown over the speakers. the 'clean' channel is not clean at all, and you can twist the knobs to extremes on the distortion channel and it all sounds pretty like ass. if you're going to get a recto, get the single recto cos some tube tone actually makes it thru to the speakers whereas the double & triple recto (& road king too) all sound like bad distortion pedals.

 

and as far as distortion pedals go, they're all pretty much analog. maybe you're confusing tube vs solid state? just cos a pedal is SS doesn't mean it's digital, and anything with a tube is analog. most digital pedals are used for other effects like delay, chorus, phasor, etc.

[deldgeetar]

If you are looking for a primo amp, I wouldn't be looking at Carvins. Looking at what you like for tones (and money allowing), why don't you look into some really nice stuff? Here's some suggestions:

Mesa Road King
Mesa Mark IV

These amps are both insanely versatile and will get you a ton of great sounds. The Road King has 4 channels, the Mark IV has 3 and a graphic EQ so it's really like 4 channels, 5 counting the graphic engaged on channel 2.

Another great company, although they cost quite a bit more than Mesa, is Bogner. Judging from your tastes, you would do well to check out:

Bogner Shiva
Bogner XTC

The Mesas are probably classified as the "high midrange" of amps, whereas the Bogners would be considered "high range." It all depends on your budget. If you are into more of a Marshall sound you should check out Splawn amps as well.

[lexavier]

wow thanks for all the replies guys.

Yea I am not really a marshall fan, But you are right , I am going to have to go out and try these. I guess I just try to be as knowledgeable as I can about an amp before I even try it.

The price range is kind of limitless, my parents Are taking care of it all . . . . . lol just kidding, no I have been busting my ass at my job, so If I have to save up five grand, then It has to be done. I am buying all my dream equipment right now, because when I have mega bills, Ill kill myself if I'm still stuck with that crate.

I guess I should factor out carvin I supppose. Yea I was looking at the road king, and it looked pretty sweet. If i get a mesa, I want it put through their custom shop! although I dont know how you would do that considering its nearly impossible to find an online dealer, how do they stay in business if they limit themselves to guitar stores?

[freaksho]

Originally posted by deldgeetar If you are looking for a primo amp, I wouldn't be looking at Carvins. Looking at what you like for tones (and money allowing), why don't you look into some really nice stuff? Here's some suggestions: Mesa Road King Mesa Mark IV These amps are both insanely versatile and will get you a ton of great sounds. The Road King has 4 channels, the Mark IV has 3 and a graphic EQ so it's really like 4 channels, 5 counting the graphic engaged on channel 2. Another great company, although they cost quite a bit more than Mesa, is Bogner. Judging from your tastes, you would do well to check out: Bogner Shiva Bogner XTC The Mesas are probably classified as the "high midrange" of amps, whereas the Bogners would be considered "high range." It all depends on your budget. If you are into more of a Marshall sound you should check out Splawn amps as well.

+1 on the Bogner Shiva if you have the money.

i heard one live a few weeks ago was simply blown away! then i went out to try one at a local store. {censored}ing unbelievable. it is exactly my style of amp but way out of my budget range right now.

two channels, both very full and refined sounding. clean is perfectly clean and warm to very high volumes. gain channel goes from gorgeous light crunch to very thick saturation and plenty of articulation.

now bear in mind, i'm huge a fan of Marshall tone so this may be Marshall voiced, but they make two versions of the Shiva: one with EL34's (marshall style) and one with 6L6's (modern american style). the one i played was the EL34 based 1x12 combo. it was the biggest sounding 1x12 i've ever heard - i don't know how they did it.

[Panopticon]

Bogner Shiva, I say.

[str8Angle]

Buy Mesa!