Members -groovatious- Posted March 21, 2011 Members Share Posted March 21, 2011 Hey guys Well my XP30 has finally given up the ghost (due to a careless bride) and I need a B&B replacement for gigs. I normally use an Electro or S90 for Piano/Rhodes/Wurly/Clav etc so this would just be for brass/strings/pads/synths etc. The Korg M50 seems to fit the bill (I'd like a Motif XF etc but too $$$ and already have Yamaha sounds in an S90) but I can't find any stores around me with the 61/73 key versions in stock. I tried the PS60 and the action felt pretty horrible (these cheaper boards seem to be sprung in a way that the keys are harder to press the further you move up a key - good quality keys are easy to press right up until you hit the body above the keyboard) - anyway, it sucked pretty bad compared to my XP30 action. The M3 action was pretty nice, but I don't need all the extra features and it's more $$ than I can afford at present. How does the M50-73 action compare? Is it like the PS60? Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zzzxtreme Posted March 21, 2011 Members Share Posted March 21, 2011 yup, equally disgusting key action like the PS60 B&B brass/strings/pads/synths - hmmm must it be new ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members -groovatious- Posted March 21, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 21, 2011 Well that's very disappointing news I'd prefer to buy new if possible - have had some bad experiences in the past buying used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members McHale Posted March 21, 2011 Members Share Posted March 21, 2011 I like my M50-73's keybed. For some reason, I didn't like the M50-61's action thought they are identical keybeds (felt much cheaper - again, I know for a fact they are identical). I do have the Triton Pro (with Yamaha's best semi-weighted keybed ever) and the M3-73. All three are obviously different but all three have their strengths. The M50 is very solidly built (the only thing plastic is the end caps and the bottom - the rest is steel). Just my .02 but I've gigged my M50-73 since it was released and I've had zero problems with it or the keybed. Here's a shot of the keybed I took when I tore mine apart: -Mc edit: if you go the M50 route, be sure to do this: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zzzxtreme Posted March 21, 2011 Members Share Posted March 21, 2011 groov, so I guess your budget would be around $1200well it sux that u have had bad experience buying used. rolands have good keybed, even their low end ones. The low end PCR500 I thought have good touch, firm and not light like the M50's. So I guess you may want to try Juno G/Di/Gi and Yamaha MO series. Hell, the cheapo yamaha KX series controller have thousand times better touch than the M50s. what bout the Kurzweil PC361. I think they are now less than 1.5K. oh you're in OZ, good luck : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DJ RAZZ Posted March 21, 2011 Members Share Posted March 21, 2011 I don't agree with that statement. The PS60 has some kind of semi-weighted action that is unique to that board. They designed it that way for better or worse. The M-50 is closer to a synth action, not as stiff as the new Roland Junos and I do believe the M-50's keys are in fact longer (nearly full size). IT IS NOT as smooth as the M3, light to medium synth action. You need to try it for yourself. It is not going to feel like your XP-30 or a Triton, but it is not horrible. I personally like the action on the PS60 as well. However, I have not spent enough time on the PS60 to hyper judge it and yes it would be annoying if the upper register got harder to play and not easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DJ RAZZ Posted March 21, 2011 Members Share Posted March 21, 2011 McHale so you think the 61 and 73 versions are different somehow, hmmm, that is strange. I forgot that you were the one who did the power supply mod. Very cool. I would personally give up my M-Audio Keystation 88ES, if I could afford an M-50 73. I would take it over an M3 or SV-1. Why? It is lighter, still sounds great, and may be the last unit we see that goes C to C which I personally love. It is better than having the black keys hanging on the ends or some 76 keyer in my opinion. Not even the Kronos follows this format. Wonder why they changed, to be like everyone else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members -groovatious- Posted March 21, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 21, 2011 Thanks for the responses guys. McHale: Why did you take yours apart? To install the IEC connector? Also, where is the spring in the keyboard mechanism? That little bit of plastic at the back of the key, holding it to the chassis looks a little flimsy! Wouldn't it wear out with use and potentially snap? zzzxtreme: My budget is around $1800AU tops. I've had the opposite experience with the newer Roland keybeds - Had a PCRM50 and each key died a slow death til 90% didn't work! Will look into the Kurz. DJ Razz: I guess I'll have to try one in person. Also, by ''stiffer action higher up the key'' I meant higher up each ''individual'' key as you move your finger TOWARDS the keyboard chassis, not higher up the octave range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members McHale Posted March 21, 2011 Members Share Posted March 21, 2011 McHale: Why did you take yours apart? To install the IEC connector? Also, where is the spring in the keyboard mechanism? That little bit of plastic at the back of the key, holding it to the chassis looks a little flimsy! Wouldn't it wear out with use and potentially snap? I took it apart to mount the power supply inside the case and install the IEC connector. While I was there I snapped a couple pics of the keybed. I don't believe the back of the key is the spring mechanism as I believe that is done by the thing in the middle of the key. I'm not gentle with my keys and do palm smears and glisses WAY too much and I've never had a problem. I also don't think the back of the key is going to snap due to anything close to normal use as it barely moves when pressing down on the key and because of the way the keybed is designed, the key doesn't twist. Obviously YMMV as far as whether you like the action or not but I like it and I play my M50 like an organ player, not a pianist and after 2 years have had zero problems. If I snap a key they are very cheap and super easy to replace. Considering how often I replace guitar strings, I don't consider a broken key much of an expense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zzzxtreme Posted March 21, 2011 Members Share Posted March 21, 2011 i know what u mean groov, those ps60 keys, like, when u press all the way down, you will feel like there's a big hole underneath. near zero weight. difficult to play softly and slowly. the M50 feels the same way I would still buy it if I need a portable gigging keyboard though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DJ RAZZ Posted March 21, 2011 Members Share Posted March 21, 2011 Gotcha. My bad but try one. The sounds are way better than the PS60 as well. The PS60 is a joy to edit but just does not cut it sound wise. I also know that Korg and Sweetwater are both doing awesome things with the M-50, even with it's Piano and Hammond sounds. Also many third party sound programers are out there. I am not saying that you are not fully capable of this yourself, just saying. I have a Korg Microstation and if you can live with many keys it is wonderful. I don't know what you set up needs to be exactly so here are a few more suggestions. #2 I cannot believe that I am saying this but the Motif MO and MM are both pretty cool as well. With some tweaks even the MM can ROCK; ugly as can be but you can't beat the price. #3 The Kurzweil PC-361 is on sale for $1495 US. Pretty good deal for a great sounding board. Good brass, awesome strings, and a VA section for synths. Even a B3 emulator. Will take some time to set it up but worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChristianRock Posted March 21, 2011 Members Share Posted March 21, 2011 On Saturday I had a little time to kill and I was next door to my fave mom-and-pop music store, so I went in and played with some synths. The M3-61 has got to have the very best synth-type action I've ever seen, and I like my Fusion's action well enough. They had a PS60 which I thought was truly horrible in comparison, and the M50-88 which was also an absolute joy. So, if the M50-61 is like the PS60, I think I'd hate it. But the surprise to me was that the Roland Juno-Gi had very good action, or so I thought - not like the M3-61, but it wasn't put to shame by it or anything. I also skimmed through some presets (kept going back to the M50-88 so I didn't spend a lot of time on it) but there's a TON of bread and butter sounds and other than the grand piano sound being insufferable, I thought it was actually a pretty cool board. If you don't need your b&b to do acoustic grand pianos, the Juno-Gi might actually be worth considering... it's about the same price as the M50-61 if I recall correctly... So, the tl:dr version of this all is... you might want to consider the Juno-Gi, I thought the action was pretty decent on it and the sounds aren't bad, and should be an improvement over your XP30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DJ RAZZ Posted March 21, 2011 Members Share Posted March 21, 2011 That is cool about the Juno GI. I do like the screen and the fact it has BOSS BR recording and effects are on board. Great for writing if you play guitar and sing or just want to get ideas down. I think the sounds are based on the Fantom G for what it is worth. I do think the KOrg is better for bread and butter, which the XP-30 did so well with the right SRX boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NuSkoolTone Posted March 21, 2011 Members Share Posted March 21, 2011 I've always felt the M50 responded admirably to a good beating. Though I noticed you mentioned using this board for brass. Let me warn you, THE BRASS ON THE M50 SUCKS! I mean like pitifully bad. The rest are fine, but the brass is a real sore spot for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Randyman Posted March 21, 2011 Members Share Posted March 21, 2011 Personal opinion: the keybed on the M50-61 sucks big time. I was considering it as it has the advantage of being lighter and cheaper than the M3. But I couldn't live with the keybed. Another thing to consider: a lot of people are selling off gear to buy the new Korg Kronos, and you might be able to get a used M3 at a good price. I bought mine, new, b stock, for around $1,400. I anticipate that in the coming months they'll sell on ebay (if that helps you in Australia) for as little as $1,000- $1,000 used. The other big advantages with the M3 over the M50: you can load in new samples, so you could buy whatever sounds you needed that it didn't have, the pads, mic input. Hard to believe you can get a workstation for this kind of money! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Strenge Posted March 21, 2011 Members Share Posted March 21, 2011 I was leaning toward a new m-50 but the keybed and general build quality screamed "going to break soon". I ended up getting an orginal motif 6, it has great action and is a tank. Of course it is older and heavier (not necessarily bad) but I didn't think the sounds were that much better on the m50. And I saved about $400 bucks. A couple years later and I'd probably try to get a newer Motif but I've been very pleased with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrcpro Posted March 21, 2011 Members Share Posted March 21, 2011 I tried the PS60 and the action felt pretty horrible (these cheaper boards seem to be sprung in a way that the keys are harder to press the further you move up a key - good quality keys are easy to press right up until you hit the body above the keyboard) Yeah that's exactly what you will find on the Korg M50-73. McHale was good enough to put up a pic of why. See how the keys are short hinged right at the end of the playing surface? On good synth actions, the keys will extend past the playing part of the key and into the chassis, which gives you consistent velocities no matter where you strike the key. On an M50 61/73 the only way to get consistent velocities is to play the keys on their end tips only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ekeys Posted March 21, 2011 Members Share Posted March 21, 2011 On Saturday I had a little time to kill and I was next door to my fave mom-and-pop music store, so I went in and played with some synths. The M3-61 has got to have the very best synth-type action I've ever seen, and I like my Fusion's action well enough. They had a PS60 which I thought was truly horrible in comparison, and the M50-88 which was also an absolute joy. So, if the M50-61 is like the PS60, I think I'd hate it.But the surprise to me was that the Roland Juno-Gi had very good action, or so I thought - not like the M3-61, but it wasn't put to shame by it or anything. I also skimmed through some presets (kept going back to the M50-88 so I didn't spend a lot of time on it) but there's a TON of bread and butter sounds and other than the grand piano sound being insufferable, I thought it was actually a pretty cool board. If you don't need your b&b to do acoustic grand pianos, the Juno-Gi might actually be worth considering... it's about the same price as the M50-61 if I recall correctly...So, the tl:dr version of this all is... you might want to consider the Juno-Gi, I thought the action was pretty decent on it and the sounds aren't bad, and should be an improvement over your XP30. CR, as a roland fan, I'm glad you have not lost all your love for Roland. I'm glad you can still be objective even though you kicked your roland module to the curve. :poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members McHale Posted March 22, 2011 Members Share Posted March 22, 2011 I was leaning toward a new m-50 but the keybed and general build quality screamed "going to break soon". For some reason, when playing the M50-61, I had that feeling too. I wish I could explain why the 73 doesn't feel the same way. But with a mostly steel case, I have no idea what would break. If he's looking for 73/76 keys, my choice would be M50-73 or Triton-76. But that shouldn't surprise anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AnotherScott Posted March 22, 2011 Members Share Posted March 22, 2011 this would just be for brass/strings/pads/synths etc. ...I tried the PS60 and the action felt pretty horrible (these cheaper boards seem to be sprung in a way that the keys are harder to press the further you move up a key - good quality keys are easy to press right up until you hit the body above the keyboard) In my brief experience with the PS60, I thought the keyboard would probably be fine for brass/strings/pads/synths etc., but terrible for piano, largely for the reason you explain. Piano dynamics require more control and more even response over the depth of the key, compared to playing typical strings/pads/etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members -groovatious- Posted March 22, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 22, 2011 What I don't understand, is why the front of the M50 is made of metal, and the sides and bottom (that are likely to suffer the most wear and tear) are made of plastic? Also, why do Korg make a ''pro'' keyboard with great sounds and features, and then make the keyboard action (the way the player interfaces with the instrument) terrible and uninspiring? I understand they're trying to make it more affordable, but ''affordable'' keyboards back in the day (from Roland etc) had great actions that are a delight to play and still going strong today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrcpro Posted March 22, 2011 Members Share Posted March 22, 2011 They're just carrying on the tradition of the Triton LE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members McHale Posted March 22, 2011 Members Share Posted March 22, 2011 What I don't understand, is why the front of the M50 is made of metal, and the sides and bottom (that are likely to suffer the most wear and tear) are made of plastic? I don't see a problem. End caps have been plastic on Korg's high end stuff for quite a while - Entire Triton Line, Trinity, Kronos, etc. The end caps on the M50 aren't cheap or thin. The bottom isn't an issue. But one of the reasons is it significantly cuts down on weight and makes the M50 one of the lightest fully functioned workstations on the market. As far as keybeds, it's not that bad. And when you compare the action of the M50 to some of the keybeds on older gear, it's as good if not better. Like I said, I've been gigging mine for 2 years or so and haven't had a problem with it. It's good enough for me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members -groovatious- Posted March 22, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 22, 2011 Just had a look at the local 2nd hand market. People are selling the Motif XS6 for $1800 so think I might just risk it and go with one of those. I daresay it will hold up better to life on the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zzzxtreme Posted March 22, 2011 Members Share Posted March 22, 2011 1800 aud ? that's not too bad considering you're in OZ. snap it quickly. hard to come by there. ex XS-6 owner here. PS : Don't update the firmware if you don't need to. there's a 0.01% chance that you may brick it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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