Stereo Mod for Ventilator...DIY or Ashby?

[halluxone]

Hey ladies and germs...

 

I have just picked up a Neo Vent with remote for my Electro 3 and am pretty excited about the opportunity to hear what it can do to the raw Hammond sound form the NE-3. Although the organ signal coming from keyboard is mono, the leslie effect will throw it out in stereo as a true Hammond would. HOWEVER, it has dawned on me that if I want to use any other patches (i.e. E-pianos, clav, etc), they will not be in stereo when bypassed. Normally this wouldn't be a big deal if playing a dedicated clonewheel like the XK, CX, or VK series but I don't want to lose the ability to get those great tremolos or panning effects that really need to be heard in stereo for effect!

 

I saw that Ashby Solutions sells Vents with a stereo mod that allows the player to do just that...bypass in stereo. Has anyone done this mod themselves or would you rather trust a pro to do it? I am not comfortable taking this beauty apart and soldering for fear of mucking it up. I emailed them to see if/what they would charge to mod a unit that was not purchased from them and am awaiting their response.

 

Any Electro/Vent users out there with some suggestions?

 

Thanks in advance everybody,

Allen

[JeffLearman]

http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2419718/Neo_Ventilator_Stereo_Bypass_M

 

If you're not fairly good with a soldering iron, I suggest you find a friend who is and have the friend do it, or send it to Ashby. This is a fairly simple job; just cut one solder blob between two pins, and then join the solder blob between one of the pins and another pin. But if you're not reasonably confident with an iron, you could overheat the PCB, which would require a much more delicate fix (one I wouldn't be able to do).

 

Let the pictures and your judgment be your guide.

[Plink Floyd]

LJ, thanks for posting that. I don't even think cutting is necessary. There are already three separate copper pads, you just bridge the proper two together. This guy removed it from the center and "M" pads with Solder Wick (the copper stuff on the left in the 2nd pic), and bridged the center and "S" pads.

 

 

 

 

 

It's not hard to use, but there's a knack to it that comes with practice. So don't practice on a $500 Vent.

[Plink Floyd]

Now let me ask: if you bridge it to stereo and input a mono signal, does the Vent still simulate the stereo output? Does this "switch" only affect signals in bypass mode? If so, why is there even a choice? Why would you want to sum a stereo signal to mono in bypass mode?

[JeffLearman]

Thanks for clarifying.

 

In either mode, when in use, it ignores Left input and applies the sim to the Right input, sending the results to L and R outputs. The option affects bypass only.

In stereo mode on bypass, it's full bypass of both channels.

In mono mode on bypass, it sends the mono input to both output channels, so you don't have your sound coming from only one side. The Left input goes nowhere.

 

It doesn't sum L+R in bypass mode.

 

Too bad this wasn't a jumper, but maybe they didn't want a jumper in the audio path.

[halluxone]

Thanks for the info guys, I did see those mod pics before and although it seems pretty simple I can't justify doing this myself as a "first time job." I've got a guy here in Atlanta, Marty Gelhar, who runs a little business out of his house called Atlanta Vintage Keyboards. I think he is actually the keyboard tech for the E-Street Band! He did me right a few years back cleaning up a VK-7 that just blew up with glue beneath the keybed...I'm pretty sure he could do this job in 10 minutes and without having to send it to and from Ashby. I've already got the 1/4" TRS male to dual 1/4" TS female adapter, which I think I would have to use to maintain the stereo bypass. Just as an aside, does modifying the Vent negate the factory warranty? Pretty sure it's built like a tank.

[JeffLearman]

Sounds like a good plan.

 

I can wield an iron, but I've always been shaky (my wife cringes when she sees me soldering). I've developed techniques to steady my hands. But I can't do the really tiny stuff.

 

When I have touchy jobs, there are folks where I work who can do something like this in less time than it takes to tell them, since they do board level rework all day. God Bless those who are talented with an iron!

[ramkeys]

I have played B-3,C-3,M-3 since 1967 and I have NO experience with the Hammond/Leslie output in stereo.Who is advising you?

That being said, I have a Vent and I tried bypass and it was exceptionally noisy

at any level with Kurz,Korg and Roland boards, which when used in their own channel (mono or stereo) are quiet. You just need a dedicated organ board. Richard

[JeffLearman]

A Leslie gives a stereo effect in a room because of the sound bouncing off all the walls, among other things. In addition, Leslies are often stereo-miked (one mic on each side of the grille). The Ventilator emulates this effect, when using a stereo PA rig.

 

Something must have been wrong with the bypass on your Ventilator. I haven't heard this problem reported before. It's a relay bypass, so it's a direct connection: no active components in the signal path at all.

 

A Nord Electro 3 is one of the better Hammond sims (among other things). He doesn't need to replace it, especially not by anything made by Kurz, Korg, or Roland. IMHO it has a good Leslie sim built-in, but the consensus opinion is that the Ventilator is better.

[halluxone]

I did some research into what clonewheel to get for about 3 months...I've tried an older, analog Korg CX-3 and a Roland VK-7 and while both were very serviceable units, the Leslie sim was pretty awful and I wanted waterfall keys. The NE3-73 is a very fine clonewheel in its own right but again, the Leslie sim is shrill in the upper registers. This is most noticeable with higher drawbars full out. The overdrive is not really strong either so I figured the Vent would help this. I don't really want to lug around a Digital Piano, clonewheel and something good for epianos (which is why a Kronos may be in the future). Maybe upgrading to the NE-4 would have been smarter but hey, it's a helluva lot more than the Vent!

 

Ultimately, I want to be able to send bypass signals throught the Vent to take advantage of the other stereo samples in the nord, especially some in the sample library that sound great in stereo. The Vent is on the way and will probably make a stop at Ashby or a local guy for the stereo mod before I'd use it...

 

Oh, almost forgot...I use a JDI Duplex before the mixer or speakers, depending on the application. Would I still just put the Vent before the DI, then run as I normally do? Since it's a balanced signal, would I pan hard left/right or just at 10 and 2 to hear the leslie effect best?

 

Thanks in advance!

[JeffLearman]

You don't need the DI at all, if sending directly to your powered monitors, with Nord or Ventilator. But it should do little harm and provides isolation, if you always want to use the same setup.

 

When feeding a snake, definitely use the JDI between the Vent and the snake. I believe its outputs aren't balanced (the specs don't say), and you want the isolation too.

 

I would hard pan, and turn down a bit on the fader on the far side (if the keyboards should be panned to one side rather than centered). Hard panning gets the best image, IMHO. Some folks don't like such a wide image and do the 10 and 2 trick, which is also fine, but make sure your Electro piano sounds are good when summed to mono if you're doing that.

[halluxone]

So the Vent is arriving tomorrow and I am salivating at the prospect of hearing the NE-3 go through it! BUT, the more I think about trying to mod the Vent to allow for other patches to go through in stereo, the more I realize that the Nord "raw" B3 tone, coupled with relatively stiff action, may not make it the best combo to use...

 

I really want drawbars and a smoother/lighter action that would allow me to focus on using the Electro for Rhodes, Wurlis, Clavs, and the occasional sample library patch. Between the current clones out there (new and used), which do you think provides the best balance of action and raw B3 tone that would be best suited to use with the Vent? I know there are quite a few XK-1 and XK3© users here who love them. Does the CX-3, SK-1, or VK 7/8 provide the basic tone/feel enough to justify buying a dedicated clone rather than just using the Electro? Should I just suck it up and trade up to the NE-4?

 

Decisions, decisions....

[Outkaster]

Yes because the upper registers of a Nord don't sound like a Hammond. You should always have a dedicated clone for a lot of organ work. the Nord can get you part of the way. For an all in one keyboard they are not bad but I would not use one for a dedicated clone. The XK/SK series from Hammond are good but now everyone is going for the Mojo organs.

[JeffLearman]

Do you have an NE3 HP? The NE3 action is hardly what I'd call a "stiff" action! It's just about right for hammond and clav, a bit light but still great for wurli, but way too light for rhodes or piano.

 

VK8 is not in the same class with NE3 for Hammond, though with a Vent it would sound a lot better. XK1 is a great keyboard overall, but it has an action that feels more like a synth than an organ. I wouldn't let that bother me, but for feel alone, I prefer the NE. Of course, it does have drawbars rather than drawbuttons -- definitely a contender. XK3c is the best I've played for faithfulness to the original, in terms of look and feel. I can almost forget I'm playing a clone. I haven't tried CX3 or SK1.

 

What do you use for piano?

 

What's an NE-4?

[halluxone]

The Mojo looks and sounds like one bad mammajamma but when it does hit the local stores, I'd really like to get an idea what the keybed feels like. I've got the regular Nord Electro 3, not the HP...even with this light action, it's just not as buttery as my brain seems to think a Hammond clone should feel. I really love playing Rhodes, Wurlies, and Clavs on it and I've got a weighted digital piano (RD700GX with Supernatural (oooooh, supernatural) expansion so I never use the Electro for acoustic pianos at all. It's the action and damn drawbuttons that I don't like for organs and the Nord Electro 4-D (NE-4) has solved the drawbar issue but is the keybed the same? It's nice having the 73 key version of the NE-3 for non-organ sounds, don't know if they will get around to releasing a 73 key version of the NE-4.