Members simbasa Posted February 16, 2008 Members Share Posted February 16, 2008 Fail. I'll let you figure out why. Hint: it has to do with "a couple thousand years".Fail...I will tell you why- does not really matter the exact date. Why don't you go over there and educate them yourself, since you're so passionate about 'understanding' the Islamic mind. You'll probably find out that you would be wasting your time. The Middle East is bull{censored}, surrounded by bull{censored} and wrapped in bull{censored}. Bull{censored} is part of their life. It's how they survive- by blaming their failure on everyone else. Mainly Jews. Or the next village over the hill from theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fxrs Posted February 16, 2008 Members Share Posted February 16, 2008 :blah:... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BrendanO Posted February 16, 2008 Members Share Posted February 16, 2008 I don't need no book larnin' about those Islams to know that they're anti-Amer'cuh and we should kill all of 'em. You're just tryin' to indocrinate me with those books. "They're nothing but a bunch of ignorant savages!" "Funny you should mention ignorant...check out this steaming pile of learning!" "{censored} learning! I know they're evil when I see them!" "But, you see," "{censored} THEM. Kill 'em all and make the world a better place. Living's too good for their kind." "...yessss. You're right, ignorant savages." "See? Like I said, you don't need no book learning." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rememberduane Posted February 16, 2008 Author Members Share Posted February 16, 2008 Fail...I will tell you why- does not really matter the exact date. Why don't you go over there and educate them yourself, since you're so passionate about 'understanding' the Islamic mind. You'll probably find out that you would be wasting your time. The Middle East is bull{censored}, surrounded by bull{censored} and wrapped in bull{censored}. Bull{censored} is part of their life. It's how they survive- by blaming their failure on everyone else. Mainly Jews. Or the next village over the hill from theirs. What's hilarious here is that you are advocating being like that by rejecting what I provided and refusing to educate yourself.Self fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members VH5150 Posted February 16, 2008 Members Share Posted February 16, 2008 Can't you just tell us? What can i do as an Evil American to not make them hate us.Wait i know become one of them,believe what they believe.Sorry ain't happening. Way too much to read and for what? Meh! just kill me.I'd like to be more educated but not on how to understand Islam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rememberduane Posted February 16, 2008 Author Members Share Posted February 16, 2008 Can't you just tell us? What can i do as an Evil American to not make them hate us.Wait i know become one of them,believe what they believe.Sorry ain't happening. Way too much to read and for what? Meh! just kill me I shouldn't even bother replying to this but... Nowhere did I call Americans evil. I'm an American. Nowhere did I say "become one of them". I'm an atheist. If you can't understand something without being indoctrinated, you have a problem. The only way to defeat something is to understand it. And... do you still have that G&L I traded you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members VH5150 Posted February 16, 2008 Members Share Posted February 16, 2008 I shouldn't even bother replying to this but... Nowhere did I call Americans evil. I'm an American. Nowhere did I say "become one of them". I'm an atheist. If you can't understand something without being indoctrinated, you have a problem. The only way to defeat something is to understand it. And... do you still have that G&L I traded you? No...and i never said you said those things its what they believe.Like my Ma use to say "forget i even said anything" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rememberduane Posted February 16, 2008 Author Members Share Posted February 16, 2008 No...and i never said you said those things its what they believe.Like my Ma use to say "forget i even said anything" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members VH5150 Posted February 16, 2008 Members Share Posted February 16, 2008 :phil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BrendanO Posted February 16, 2008 Members Share Posted February 16, 2008 If you can't understand something without being indoctrinated, you have a problem. The only way to defeat something is to understand it. I think that's actually a fairly serious issue, Islam aside. I see it expressed all the time, where people do not want to learn about something. Religion (of others, or the history of their own), politics, ethnic and sexual minorites, body modification...it's like if they have knowledge about it, it'll somehow convert them. Like, if they know, they have to believe. It's actually rather frightening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rememberduane Posted February 16, 2008 Author Members Share Posted February 16, 2008 I think that's actually a fairly serious issue, Islam aside. I see it expressed all the time, where people do not want to learn about something. Religion (of others, or the history of their own), politics, ethnic and sexual minorites, body modification...it's like if they have knowledge about it, it'll somehow convert them. Like, if they know, they have to believe. It's actually rather frightening. I agree. It really worries me. I'm always curious, about everything. Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ScreaminSaint Posted February 16, 2008 Members Share Posted February 16, 2008 I know a man who was raised as a muslim in Egypt. Moved over here several years ago after converting to christianity. He's one of the few men around who is trying to make an accurate english translation of the Koran. He came to my church last easter and gave a series of lectures on radical islam. I thought some of it was more schtick than substance. He sent us a letter about a phone call to Sen Barrak Obama's church. Here's the transcript. A Truth To Know I called The United Church of Christ in Chicago, Illinois, where Senator Obama is a member. I doubted that he was indeed a Christian for if he were Muslim and left the religion of Islam, according to Islamic law, he would be subject to a death warrant by Islam itself. Many such murders take place around this world to Muslims who have left Islam. However in this case the Muslims are joyously happy to think that we would have a Muslim President in the White House. Obama is deceiving America. Muslims would not be endorsing a Muslim who left Islam to become a Christian. It is important to note that I had four witnesses to this conversation with Obama's church on the phone. The dates and time and the length of conversation can be verified by phone records. The following is the conversation I had with the church regarding membership in the church. "My name is Usama, and I am from Egypt. I want to join the church." "I need to ask you some questions please." They connected me to the membership department. I proceeded to ask questions that only a Muslim would ask. "What is the difference between Baptist and your church?" She answered, "We believe exactly what Baptists believe." My second question was, "How big is your church and what kind of church is it?" Her answer was, "We are a Black African American church and we have 6000 members. I asked her, "Do I have to attend Sunday school classes and other meetings to be a member?" She said, "No, that is not necessary." I asked, "Do I have to be baptized to join the church?" Her answer was "NO." I asked, "Do I have to give money to join the church?" She answered "NO." I went on to ask her how do I join the church?...she replied, " You need to attend two Sunday school membership classes in a row and then you need to walk the aisle." I said, "That sounds easy." "Now one last question please." "IF I AM A MUSLIM AND I BELIEVE IN PROPHET MOHAMMED, PEACE BE UPON HIM, AND I ALSO BELIEVE IN JESUS, PEACE BE UPON HIM, DO I HAVE TO GIVE UP MY ISLAMIC FAITH TO BE A MEMBER IN YOUR CHURCH?" SHE REPLIED, "NO, WE HAVE MANY MEMBERS IN OUR CHURCH WHO ARE MUSLIM."I ASKED HER, "IS THAT HOW SENATOR BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA BECAME A MEMBER OF THE CHURCH?" THERE WAS A DEAD SILENT MOMENT. AND THEN I SAID THAT I KNEW HIS FATHER AND STEPFATHER ARE MUSLIM: HIS GRANDFATHERS AND GRANDMOTHERS ARE MUSLIMS: HIS UNCLES AND AUNTS, NEPHEWS AND NIECES AND COUSINS ARE MUSLIM. EVERYONE IN HIS FAMILY IN KENYA ARE MUSLIMS. She replied to me, "I am sorry I cannot answer this question for you." I could sense she was uncomfortable to go on further with me. I ended the conversation by saying to her, "YOUR CHURCH HAS DONE GREAT HARM TO THIS COUNTRY BY COVERING A WOLF IN SHEEPS CLOTHING, AND THAT WOLF IS SENATOR BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA." End of phone call........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 17 Tubes Posted February 16, 2008 Members Share Posted February 16, 2008 I wonder which Islamic people are sitting around with computers and books trying to get a better understanding of us? ("The West"/Americans/etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BrendanO Posted February 16, 2008 Members Share Posted February 16, 2008 I wonder which Islamic people are sitting around with computers and books trying to get a better understanding of us? ("The West"/Americans/etc.) Some of are, yes. Just like some of us are trying to understand them. Meanwhile, many of them just hate us, regardless of what anyone does, says, or tells them. Just like here. The numbers of the former probably pale compared to the latter. Just like here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rememberduane Posted February 16, 2008 Author Members Share Posted February 16, 2008 I wonder which Islamic people are sitting around with computers and books trying to get a better understanding of us? ("The West"/Americans/etc.) For all our problems... who cares man? Don't you want to be better than them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rememberduane Posted February 16, 2008 Author Members Share Posted February 16, 2008 I have no idea wtf ScreaminSaint's post was about... but then again I'm drunk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 17 Tubes Posted February 16, 2008 Members Share Posted February 16, 2008 Some of them, yes. Just like some of us are trying to understand them. Meanwhile, many of them just hate us, regardless of what anyone does, says, or tells them. Just like here. Understood. Unfortunately....part of the group that hates us...hate everyone. One of the biggest problems there is Muslims blowing other Muslims to goo. Not hateful Americans killing Muslims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BrendanO Posted February 16, 2008 Members Share Posted February 16, 2008 I have no idea wtf ScreaminSaint's post was about... but then again I'm drunk. I'm sober, and it doesn't make any sense. The best I can make of it is that it's calling Obama a Muslim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rememberduane Posted February 16, 2008 Author Members Share Posted February 16, 2008 I'm sober, and it doesn't make any sense. The best I can make of it is that it's calling Obama a Muslim.lolz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 17 Tubes Posted February 16, 2008 Members Share Posted February 16, 2008 For all our problems... who cares man? Don't you want to be better than them? Of course I do. And I haven't read ALL of that yet....but will it really help us to understand them if they don't understand us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rememberduane Posted February 16, 2008 Author Members Share Posted February 16, 2008 Of course I do. And I haven't read ALL of that yet....but will it really help us to understand them if they don't understand us? I certainly believe so. At least from a tactical point of view. Understanding the nuances of the Islamic world allows us to recognize who our enemies are and maybe more importantly, who they are not. It also allows us to see beyond the superficial "religious" explanations and recognize the power politics that use religion, and then the popular beliefs derived from that top-down approach. Really, there is nothing more helpful than knowing your enemy, and especially being able to distinguish him/her from a similar group. Smart politics can yield very fast and very effective results. The problem is that most people don't care or don't bother, then elect people who don't know either. Obviously the ideal would be for both sides to understand each other and come to a peaceful agreement, but any sane person knows that will never happen. I'm not advocating knowledge and understanding of the Islamic world in hopes of a peaceful, hippy, kiss and make up session. I'm advocating it because it is the only way we can efficiently undermine and destroy this cancer of an ideology. Sure, it may be possible to do it other ways, but at what cost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Welladjusted Posted February 16, 2008 Members Share Posted February 16, 2008 I've toyed with reading A History of God by Karen Armstrong for some time. It plots the idea of a personal deity through old testament times to islam. She's written quite a bit on religion, upon further research, and is actually a former Roman Catholic nun. I haven't had a chance to read it though. It's too important an issue to not be educated on, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 17 Tubes Posted February 16, 2008 Members Share Posted February 16, 2008 I certainly believe so. At least from a tactical point of view. Understanding the nuances of the Islamic world allows us to recognize who our enemies are and maybe more importantly, who they are not. It also allows us to see beyond the superficial "religious" explanations and recognize the power politics that use religion, and then the popular beliefs derived from that top-down approach.Really, there is nothing more helpful than knowing your enemy, and especially being able to distinguish him/her from a similar group. Smart politics can yield very fast and very effective results. The problem is that most people don't care or don't bother, then elect people who don't know either.Obviously the ideal would be for both sides to understand each other and come to a peaceful agreement, but any sane person knows that will never happen. I'm not advocating knowledge and understanding of the Islamic world in hopes of a peaceful, hippy, kiss and make up session. I'm advocating it because it is the only way we can efficiently undermine and destroy this cancer of an ideology. Sure, it may be possible to do it other ways, but at what cost? Hmm. We may actually have some views in common. It's the first time I have realized you consider that we do have enemies, and that some things need...um...to be taken care of. I do have to learn how this violent expression of their hate manifested itself, and continues to do so. It's not just oil...obviously. Is it the hard life? Is it really religious dogma? I know I know...read the OP! I will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rememberduane Posted February 16, 2008 Author Members Share Posted February 16, 2008 Hmm. We may actually have some views in common. It's the first time I have realized you consider that we do have enemies, and that some things need...um...to be taken care of. I do have to learn how this violent expression of their hate manifested itself, and continues to do so. It's not just oil...obviously. Is it the hard life? Is it really religious dogma?I know I know...read the OP! I will. I play the devil's advocate a lot. Especially when I feel like there are approaches being taken for the wrong reasons. There are a lot of reasons why it happens. One really has to be familiar with late Ottoman history and then 20th century Middle Eastern history, along with late Mughal and colonial and post-colonial Indian/South Asian history. Even moreso with the ideological/philosophical history. It's a really intricate subject. I offer what I can, but to be honest I have a lot to learn before I can comfortably explain the subject. I can recognize when ideas are wrong/short-sighted, but I still have so much to learn. That's after two years of formal education in this subject and lots of time of informal education. I'm hoping once I'm done with both my undergraduate degree and my PhD I'll be able to really explain what's up -- I'm heading down a path of research in the philosophy and causes of violent religious fundamentalism, specifically Islam in South Asia but also in a broader context. Either way... I guess yeah, read the original post... but if you want any more info on it, I'd be glad to share things I find. Of course I recognize there is a problem that needs to be taken care of. I've never said otherwise, only argued when I felt there was invalid rationale for approaches. Take care man, glad to see we agree on some things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Voidhanger Posted February 16, 2008 Members Share Posted February 16, 2008 There are a lot of reasons why it happens. One really has to be familiar with late Ottoman history and then 20th century Middle Eastern history, along with late Mughal and colonial and post-colonial Indian/South Asian history. Even moreso with the ideological/philosophical history.Oh come on...how about just reading this and everything will be explained http://www.amazon.com/Israel-Lobby-U-S-Foreign-Policy/dp/0374177724That's all you need folks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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