Members JoshuaLogan Posted May 4, 2008 Members Share Posted May 4, 2008 I posted up a metal drums test on soundclick for you to guys to check out. I used Steven Slate Drums 2.0 & Kontakt. The drums/cymbals levels might not be mixed that well, because I haven't got my monitors yet, but I wanted to test it out anyways. Let me know how you think it sounds. I think it's sounding pretty good. http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=832223&songID=6515206 Make sure to click Play Hi-Fi (the black play button, not the gray one) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Voltaire Posted May 4, 2008 Members Share Posted May 4, 2008 sounded fake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ben J Posted May 4, 2008 Members Share Posted May 4, 2008 Couple things: 1. There are other velocities besides 127. 2. What's with the chokes? That would be impossible to play. It sounds ridiculous. Other than that, it would probably sound awesome in a mix (as all SSD drums do). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zehn Posted May 4, 2008 Members Share Posted May 4, 2008 kick is too loud, everything is panned too extremely for my tastes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JoshuaLogan Posted May 4, 2008 Author Members Share Posted May 4, 2008 Couple things:1. There are other velocities besides 127.2. What's with the chokes? That would be impossible to play. It sounds ridiculous.Other than that, it would probably sound awesome in a mix (as all SSD drums do). Haha, the velocities are actually varying quite a bit, but yeah I could work on getting it sounding more realistic. The chokes I probably screwed up. I'm not a drummer at all. I was concentrating more on the kick and snare to be honest. hah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JoshuaLogan Posted May 4, 2008 Author Members Share Posted May 4, 2008 kick is too loud, everything is panned too extremely for my tastes Hmmm, I actually didn't mess with the panning at all. I've got everything set dead center, so that's how they came panned in Kontakt. I guess I could try sliding them left and right to narrow it a little bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JoshuaLogan Posted May 4, 2008 Author Members Share Posted May 4, 2008 Okay, I uploaded a new version (replaced the first) with the chokes fixed and messed with the velocity a little bit (although it still might be a little too machine-like depending on your tastes). How's it sound now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thinkpad20 Posted May 4, 2008 Members Share Posted May 4, 2008 Sorry, I could definitely tell it was fake, particularly when it goes fast in the hands. I'm sure you'd be able to fool many, but I've listened to a lot of drum machine stuff and done a fair amount myself, and I've gotten pretty good at being able to tell when there's a drum machine involved, especially when there's blasting, complicated fills, or pretty much anything involving dynamics or "feel." Though there have been times where I've been fooled, one direction or another. For example with Anaal Nathrakh's Eschaton I could not BELIEVE that was programmed... I can hear it now but it's still incredibly convincing; of course the fact that is buried in effects and who knows how many layers of guitar etc helps. And when I first heard The Berzerker's Dissimulate, I was sure it was a drum machine until I learned otherwise - and it's pretty obvious that that's what they were going for (don't ask me why...). Just because I can tell it's programmed doesn't mean it doesn't sound good though. The endless slow-breakdown-with-constant-quarter-note-crash-hit-and-doublebass-patterns ()style is not one I'm particularly fond of, but it still is one of the better drum machines I've heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JoshuaLogan Posted May 4, 2008 Author Members Share Posted May 4, 2008 Sorry, I could definitely tell it was fake, particularly when it goes fast in the hands. I'm sure you'd be able to fool many, but I've listened to a lot of drum machine stuff and done a fair amount myself, and I've gotten pretty good at being able to tell when there's a drum machine involved, especially when there's blasting, complicated fills, or pretty much anything involving dynamics or "feel." Though there have been times where I've been fooled, one direction or another. For example with Anaal Nathrakh's Eschaton I could not BELIEVE that was programmed... I can hear it now but it's still incredibly convincing; of course the fact that is buried in effects and who knows how many layers of guitar etc helps. And when I first heard The Berzerker's Dissimulate, I was sure it was a drum machine until I learned otherwise - and it's pretty obvious that that's what they were going for (don't ask me why...). Just because I can tell it's programmed doesn't mean it doesn't sound good though. The endless slow-breakdown-constant-quarter-note-cymbal-hit style is not one I'm particularly fond of, but it still is one of the better drum machines I've heard. Well, I'm not trying to fool anybody. I'm not a drummer, and the song I programmed is in a style that sounds slightly robotic. I was just trying to get something together to hear how the samples sound fully together. I'm sure I could get it more realistic sounding if I messed with the velocities more and moved the drum hits so they aren't perfectly in time... Plus it'd be even harder to tell when it's in a full mix. But yeah, I was just throwing something together and seeing how good I could get it sounding on a first try here, because I already decided that for my band's demo material I'm going to take the same approach as Bulb (Periphery) and just program the drum tracks, because it'll be a lot easier (and cheaper) than micing up a set. I can deal with a little loss of realisticness, because the sound quality is so good. Plus, the heavy stuff we're into kinda has that synthetic/robotic kinda style anyways, and then the chill/ambient stuff I want to do on my own is all pretty slow paced and not too complicated drum-wise, so it won't be too hard to get that stuff sounding realistic. P.S. Has anybody else noticed that soundclick's player seems to make your stuff play slightly louder than the original file you uploaded? Kinda weird... I was trying to get the level up so it has some impact, but then the one on soundclick is sounding probably a little bit too loud lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thinkpad20 Posted May 4, 2008 Members Share Posted May 4, 2008 I didn't mean "fool" in some sort of sinister way, I just meant that I think there would probably be a lot of people out there who wouldn't notice that it's a drum machine, particularly those who don't pay much attention to drums (OTOH, I often pay more attention to the drums than the guitars in the music I listen to... even though I'm a guitarist ). The point is if you want it to sound like real drums, you have to get a real drummer. Except in very rare circumstances, the nuances that come completely naturally to human on the kit are all but impossible to achieve with a machine. That said, if you don't mind it sounding overly robotic or just don't want to deal with finding a drummer that's good enough and/or deal with the hassle of recording drums, or particularly if you want the "drum machine" sound in your music, then go for it. The drums for my brutal death project (http://www.myspace.com/kuroiband) are programmed for the second of the three reasons I listed, and I don't mind as it's just a one-man project with no intentions to play live. But if I wanted to make it a serious project, there's no question that I would try to find a real drummer to handle the duties - in my view it just sounds better no question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rear Naked Posted May 4, 2008 Members Share Posted May 4, 2008 snare hit velocities are a big problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cobrahead1030 Posted May 4, 2008 Members Share Posted May 4, 2008 snare hit velocities are a big problem +1 that snare screams DRUM MACHINE big time the hats and maybe toms could use a little more variation as well, but those will get covered more in a mix...actually you've got some cymbal crashes in there that have the same thing going on the kit itself sounds rather nice, but it's way too robotic sounding just listening to it on it's own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rear Naked Posted May 5, 2008 Members Share Posted May 5, 2008 dude are you using the Z4 ambiance {censored}? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JoshuaLogan Posted May 7, 2008 Author Members Share Posted May 7, 2008 dude are you using the Z4 ambiance {censored}? yeah a little, why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JBecker Posted May 7, 2008 Members Share Posted May 7, 2008 Snare sounds super fake, but I'd be pretty damn happy if I could program something like that. I'm not sure I have the patience. That being said, I've always hated the "triggered" kick drum sound that this has (sounds fake, definitely too on time, but in a mix I'd probably just say it was triggered), but I think that's what you were going for. It was interesting. On it's own I can easily tell it's fake, even the perfect timing aside. I have no idea if I would have picked it up so well in a mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rear Naked Posted May 7, 2008 Members Share Posted May 7, 2008 yeah a little, why? i think it needs more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JoshuaLogan Posted May 7, 2008 Author Members Share Posted May 7, 2008 i think it needs more Alright I'll try adding more room sound. Do you have the SS2.0 drums? have you tried programming anything? just curious. trying to get some tips. I'm getting complaints about the cymbals... my other guitarist and a few guys online were all saying they sound too weak for this kind of music. you have any ideas how to get them sounding better for metal? there's not a whole lot of choices that came with it so it's not like I can just pick different cymbals to use haha. I don't know. I like the sound of certain drums, but I'm having a hard time getting them sounding good for metal, and now the cymbals are bothering me too. I'm kinda wishing I just bought drumkit from hell superior instead since I've heard really nice results with it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JoshuaLogan Posted May 7, 2008 Author Members Share Posted May 7, 2008 Snare sounds super fake, but I'd be pretty damn happy if I could program something like that. I'm not sure I have the patience. That being said, I've always hated the "triggered" kick drum sound that this has (sounds fake, definitely too on time, but in a mix I'd probably just say it was triggered), but I think that's what you were going for. It was interesting. On it's own I can easily tell it's fake, even the perfect timing aside. I have no idea if I would have picked it up so well in a mix. lol well I'm not interested in it sounding like a real kit in the room. I just want it sounding like the final product in a mix... after being fully processed and sounding nice and powerful, you know? and those are two completely different things.... especially when it comes to heavier rock and metal. heh. by the way, there's a bunch of other snares in there you'd probably love. it's hard to get one sounding how I like for metal though. I hate snares with a lot of ring... you know that "boing" sound. haha. I can't stand that for heavier music... I want the snare to have a lot of crack. a sound I like that I keep going back to is the snare sound on a lot of Bulb/Periphery's tracks... nice tight bright crack with a little reverb tail on it. having a hard time trying to get something similar... oh and I've started paying more attention to drums on my favorite albums. i started listening to some of my favorite bands just to see what the drums and particularly the kick and snare sound like, and such a huge difference on a lot of stuff..... on between the buried and me's Colors the drums are mixed sooooo low... I was surprised how quiet they are. you can just faintly hear them under the guitars heh anyways, enough rambling. I just want to get the cymbals and snare sounding better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cobrahead1030 Posted May 7, 2008 Members Share Posted May 7, 2008 you REALLY can't judge overheads very well without hearing them in a full mix...very often they'll sound thin/weak on their own, but if they occupy the proper space once you get some guitars and bass in there, they become a whole different animal i know the SSD package had a snare that was modeled after one of the deftones albums, i've used that before with pretty good results...i also like a snare with a lot of crack instead of ping Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rear Naked Posted May 7, 2008 Members Share Posted May 7, 2008 yes i do have the Slate 2.0 but i havnt used them, so im of no value to you :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JoshuaLogan Posted May 8, 2008 Author Members Share Posted May 8, 2008 yes i do have the Slate 2.0 but i havnt used them, so im of no value to you :-) Hmm? Just haven't got around to using them yet or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ENdtime Posted May 8, 2008 Members Share Posted May 8, 2008 I'm not a big fan of the Steven Slate Drums.. They work better reinforcing live drum recordings.. They are just too clean to really work well on their own.. Like others have said, I think the snare is not working very well and the cymbals definitly dont feel part of the overall drum track. Too seperate.. I think there are WAY better sample sets for delivering a powerful yet "live" sounding drumkit.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members B Money Posted May 8, 2008 Members Share Posted May 8, 2008 sounds great to me. That sounds like {censored} ton of programming work, I think the final product sounds great. I'd be happy with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members glenecho Posted May 8, 2008 Members Share Posted May 8, 2008 With better drum software like BFD and Ezdrummer you don't have to worry so much about drum velocities. It makes it sound more realistic because it doesn't trigger the same exact sample every time even if the velocity is the same. My recommendation isn't what you'll want to hear, but I'd pick up BFD 2.0 or if you can't afford it, ezdrummer. And honestly, I just don't think those are very good sounding drums as well...sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rear Naked Posted May 8, 2008 Members Share Posted May 8, 2008 With better drum software like BFD and Ezdrummer you don't have to worry so much about drum velocities. It makes it sound more realistic because it doesn't trigger the same exact sample every time even if the velocity is the same. My recommendation isn't what you'll want to hear, but I'd pick up BFD 2.0 or if you can't afford it, ezdrummer.And honestly, I just don't think those are very good sounding drums as well...sorry. the Slate stuff does the same thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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