Members NeloAngelo Posted May 31, 2008 Members Share Posted May 31, 2008 You really are simple aren't you?I'm not asking for what reason DT choose to write "complex" music. I'm asking you to explain in what way their music so complex and ingenious. So far, I get the impression you haven't got the faintest clue what you're talking about.You made it quite clear that anyone who doesn't like Dream Theater is a essentially a simpleton. So explain to us and help us understand why they're so amazing, so we can be elevated like yourself. "They're complex and technical" isn't at all a sufficiently detailed and valid argument I'm afraid. So far you've basically arguing that they're better because they're better. Are you capable of comprehending why that argument isn't valid? the dude just doesnt have his own opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members beno Posted May 31, 2008 Members Share Posted May 31, 2008 Well, I'm gonna stop being a cock for a second and try to be serious.Yes, I can't stand Rudess or the what DT have become since he joined. Sure, technically he's quite incredible, and clearly has quicker hands than the likes of Moore and Sherinian. But I've never heard a clip or seen live footage that made me think, "{censored} Moore/Sherinian really isn't keeping up". They're both incredible musicians too, just that Rudess has a stupid physical ability.That said, I think he has no musical taste whatsoever. SFAM to me is a waste of some good riffs. The whole thing is just a massive bundle of wank, although it's better than any of the albums that followed it.There's simply no cleverness in DT's music or lyrics anymore, no subtelty, no class. It's similar to the whole "bigger is better" style of thinking, where if they use more and more odd timings and play faster and faster in their wankery, it must instantly be better.Personally I'd rather listen to Falling Into Infinity than any of the Rudess-era garbage. Listen to Hell's Kitchen, Lines in the Sand, Trial of Tears... Labrie's horrible voice aside, there's memorable melodies, atmosphere, detail, sounds that can inspire mental imagery... Nothing I've heard since Rudess joined the band has anything like that. Since Rudess joined, it's just a wall of noises with no point at all.And that's Sherinian era... personally I prefer Moore even moreso. Speaking from one DT fan to another, I respect your opinion. I personally greatly dislike FII, it's my least favourite album (and Portnoy's too due to the record company controlling most of the recording sessions, but that's another story altogether). It's good DT is so diverse tho, different albums to please different tastes. I'm a bigger fan of post Moore and Sherinian stuff, and Rudess is easily one of my favourite members in the band. I find that he has pushed the band a lot, which can come off to be viewed like you see it, as a bunch of unecessary shredding and soloing and offtime sections, etc, but I see it in a different light. I appreciate it because it shows the band bettering themselves, and I personally do love Rudess' melodies more so than Moore or Sherinian's...But again dude, this is all personal preference, so take it as it is. Glad we can share opinions on DT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mavesicles Posted May 31, 2008 Members Share Posted May 31, 2008 So far you've basically arguing that they're better because they're better. When did I say they're better? And better than what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members beno Posted May 31, 2008 Members Share Posted May 31, 2008 Nice post tho lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members beno Posted May 31, 2008 Members Share Posted May 31, 2008 Bite me.:poke:Words can't describe The Dance of Eternity. Agreed, I would actually also have a hard time putting into words why they're so technical and complex, I would just have to show by example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeadNight Warrior Posted May 31, 2008 Members Share Posted May 31, 2008 Speaking from one DT fan to another, I respect your opinion. I personally greatly dislike FII, it's my least favourite album (and Portnoy's too due to the record company controlling most of the recording sessions, but that's another story altogether). It's good DT is so diverse tho, different albums to please different tastes.I'm a bigger fan of post Moore and Sherinian stuff, and Rudess is easily one of my favourite members in the band. I find that he has pushed the band a lot, which can come off to be viewed like you see it, as a bunch of unecessary shredding and soloing and offtime sections, etc, but I see it in a different light. I appreciate it because it shows the band bettering themselves, and I personally do love Rudess' melodies more so than Moore or Sherinian's...But again dude, this is all personal preference, so take it as it is. Glad we can share opinions on DT. Well, I guess it depends on your opinion of "better". Personally, I think they've degenerated into a mess of pointless widdling, which to me is in no way them "bettering" themselves. I'd rather hear good songs than a CD full of enless wankery. Sure, they're playing stuff that's faster and in stranger timings and whatever, compared to the older stuff, but IMO it's all just for show and has no real substance to it. IMO, Moore brought to the band a musical and lyrical cleverness and kind of wit. Sherinian brought with him his strange mix of rock star and fusion wiz. Jordan Rudess has brought with him silly rag-time piano that lost its humour after the first time he did it, and aside from that... lots of fast pointless notes. Even in his piano playing, he just can't back off for two seconds to let the overall sound breathe. For a "progressive rock" band, it sure does seem like they're heading backwards IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeadNight Warrior Posted May 31, 2008 Members Share Posted May 31, 2008 When did I say they're better? And better than what? Do you find you have to consciously think about breathing in and out in order to stay alive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members beno Posted May 31, 2008 Members Share Posted May 31, 2008 Well, I guess it depends on your opinion of "better". Personally, I think they've degenerated into a mess of pointless widdling, which to me is in no way them "bettering" themselves. I'd rather hear good songs than a CD full of enless wankery. Sure, they're playing stuff that's faster and in stranger timings and whatever, compared to the older stuff, but IMO it's all just for show and has no real substance to it.IMO, Moore brought to the band a musical and lyrical cleverness and kind of wit. Sherinian brought with him his strange mix of rock star and fusion wiz. Jordan Rudess has brought with him silly rag-time piano that lost its humour after the first time he did it, and aside from that... lots of fast pointless notes. Even in his piano playing, he just can't back off for two seconds to let the overall sound breathe. For a "progressive rock" band, it sure does seem like they're heading backwards IMO. I've heard a lot of people with the same complaint about Rudess about him playing too fast...People saying he should slow down, etc...But I dunno man, all that stuff that you dislike them for is the reason I think they're so great. If they were still putting out Awake and I&W I wouldn't be into them, b/c as much as I think those albums have their moments, they don't do much for me. Especially Awake, aside from a few tracks I find it somewhat bland and boring...A lot of John's guitar parts are very basic and that's not what appeals to me about their sound now. I guess I just like them more as a more "flashy" band, I dig it more and it gets my adrenaline going more...Opinions man, different strokes for different folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mavesicles Posted May 31, 2008 Members Share Posted May 31, 2008 Do you find you have to consciously think about breathing in and out in order to stay alive? br--ea-thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeadNight Warrior Posted May 31, 2008 Members Share Posted May 31, 2008 I've heard a lot of people with the same complaint about Rudess about him playing too fast...People saying he should slow down, etc...But I dunno man, all that stuff that you dislike them for is the reason I think they're so great. If they were still putting out Awake and I&W I wouldn't be into them, b/c as much as I think those albums have their moments, they don't do much for me. Especially Awake, aside from a few tracks I find it somewhat bland and boring...A lot of John's guitar parts are very basic and that's not what appeals to me about their sound now. I guess I just like them more as a more "flashy" band, I dig it more and it gets my adrenaline going more...Opinions man, different strokes for different folks. Well, it's quite apparent that we seek different properties in the music we each listen to. It's like freeform jazz. I can't stand it. A friend I once had listened to that stuff. {censored}, his whole family not only played brass, they lived and breathed the {censored}in music. Sounded to me like a bunch of musicians all playing completely different songs, with each one sounding like pure anus on its own anyway. To me, current Dream Theater means much the same thing to me as free jazz. Not in the slightest bit musical, just trying as hard as possible to be "complex", "technical" and "off-centre". Like you said, different strokes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members beno Posted May 31, 2008 Members Share Posted May 31, 2008 Well, it's quite apparent that we seek different properties in the music we each listen to. It's like freeform jazz. I can't stand it. A friend I once had listened to that stuff. {censored}, his whole family not only played brass, they lived and breathed the {censored}in music. Sounded to me like a bunch of musicians all playing completely different songs, with each one sounding like pure anus on its own anyway. To me, current Dream Theater means much the same thing to me as free jazz. Not in the slightest bit musical, just trying as hard as possible to be "complex", "technical" and "off-centre". Like you said, different strokes... Indeed friend It's good to agree to disagree Out of curiosity, what other bands are you into? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeadNight Warrior Posted May 31, 2008 Members Share Posted May 31, 2008 Indeed friend It's good to agree to disagree Out of curiosity, what other bands are you into? I can listen to just about anything that's not hip hop, techno, or free jazz really. A few of I guess my favourite artists... Pain of Salvation, The Flower Kings, Opeth, Scorpions, Blind Guardian, Eric Johnson, Queensryche, Camel, Queen, Spiral Architect, Andromeda, old Dark Tranquillity, Nobuo Uematsu... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Trauma_Luna Posted May 31, 2008 Members Share Posted May 31, 2008 osome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeadNight Warrior Posted May 31, 2008 Members Share Posted May 31, 2008 br--ea-thing? It's kinda funny, and at the same time disturbing... In the years I've been here, I think the only forumite I recall who was more ignorant than yourself was "Baw". Now the funny part is though, Baw was a troll... hilariously ignorant, but on purpose. You on the other hand, are an example demonstrating that the concept of "survival of the fittest" simply does not apply to our species in this modern day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MrVisual Posted May 31, 2008 Members Share Posted May 31, 2008 talent level of DT=best band to ever put me to sleep in less than 5 minutes. dream theater sucks the big one. the best uninspired sounding band with the least amount of energy in the music ever. And Metallica isn't boring? Try some Testament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jnurp Posted May 31, 2008 Members Share Posted May 31, 2008 {censored}ing more wah pedal...great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EdgeOfDarkness Posted May 31, 2008 Members Share Posted May 31, 2008 [YOUTUBE]UY1qYI3oY-0[/YOUTUBE] [YOUTUBE]2C7Jtkp5LnA[/YOUTUBE] [YOUTUBE]DMauyB8zaKQ[/YOUTUBE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Uncle_Milton Posted May 31, 2008 Members Share Posted May 31, 2008 im surprised that metallica can still generate this much discussion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vittra1 Posted May 31, 2008 Members Share Posted May 31, 2008 The crowd looks real enthused in the last video Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Voltaire Posted May 31, 2008 Members Share Posted May 31, 2008 i wish you could form an opinion. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NeloAngelo Posted May 31, 2008 Members Share Posted May 31, 2008 And Metallica isn't boring? Try some Testament. thanks for the suggestion. i already have all of testaments albums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Say Ocean Posted May 31, 2008 Author Members Share Posted May 31, 2008 "Sucking on their nuts"? Ok, I'm not lowering myself to your level. I never claimed they're the second coming, nor that they're the most complex music "evarrrr." Obviously there's way more complex bands out there (ie. Unexpect, that {censored} is messed up there's so much going on). And thirdly it is ignorant because it's a gross exaggeration...If something bores you, I'm sorry but in what world do you live in that you would stand it long enough for it to actually "put you to sleep?" It's an assesine statement to make. Period. Don't be such a bitch. I'm sorry you're getting butthurt cause someone described your favorite band as "putting them to sleep." It's the interwebz, and I know its super serious business, but seriously dude grow a pair. You weren't mad that he used a common expression to describe how your favorite band bores you, you were just pissed that someone doesn't like your favorite band. I think saying they put me to sleep is a pretty damn mild way of describing a band, and it could've been worse so STFU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mhr74 Posted May 31, 2008 Members Share Posted May 31, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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