Is it possible to use seventh chords in a song these days without it sounding dated?

[Mr Songwriter]

I play in a covers band some of the time, nothing serious just a bit of fun and a lot of the songs are from the 60's (Beatles, Kinks etc) and I really enjoy a lot of the chord sequences, many of which involve seventh chords, and now that I'm writing a bit more original material I'm thinking of using a few of them in my own songs, I don't know if it's just me though, but whenever I hear a seventh chord I immediately think of either 60's music, Blues or country and western, whereas what I'm playing is a bit more indyish and modern sounding than that. Any thoughts?

[tamoore]

My thought is; Play what you like, and don't worry about what other people may or may not care for, or may think sounds dated. Make the 7th chords sound modern in your context.

[Dubb]

Sure it's possible. You may have to get a bit more creative than the old V7-I cadence in order to make it sound fresh, but it's possible and modern bands do it. The trick, I think, is to use them in unexpected ways. When you hear a 7 chord, your ear wants/expects it to resolve up a 4th... but doing so sounds very very "familiar," perhaps even dated. Try making it move somewhere else, or something unexpected along those lines. Also, using a 7 chord on a degree other than the V (the only diatonic 7 chord) will sound a little more interesting or hip.

 

Also, I think minor7 and major7 chords sound significantly less "bluesy" (a major contributor to the "dated" sound) than dominant7 chords, so you might experiment more with those.

 

Another thing you can use seventh chords for is creating some nice chromatic movement or melodic lines in a progression. For example:

C | Cmaj7 | C7

 

What this all basically boils down to is that if you don't use 7 chords in dated ways, it won't sound dated.

[Todzilla]

7th chords make music more interesting, as do 9th chords, 11ths, so on.

 

All the top 40 music has seventh chords, as do experimental cool stuff like TV on the Radio, Flaming Lips, Beck...

 

Come to think of it, only straight ahead 3 chord rock doesn't...

[eddieboston2]

Certain styles of composition seem to come in and out of fashion. In the nineties with the grunge movement, there was definitely a "back-to-basics" trend in rock music, where anything more complex than a power-chord was considered pretentious. These days, I think you can do a little more, as there isn't that anti-snob attitude as much. I still wouldn't go throwing a Bb augmented ninth chord and such into a pop-rock song without a good reason, but I think today's listeners can handle seventh chords.

[Chicken Monkey]

My thought is; Play what you like, and don't worry about what other people may or may not care for, or may think sounds dated. Make the 7th chords sound modern in your context.

 

+1. If 7th chords sound dated now, then 1-3-5 chords will sound dated as soon as 11th chords come in to style next year. Direct your energy into making your music great, not fresh-sounding.

[Mr Songwriter]

 

Sure it's possible. You may have to get a bit more creative than the old V7-I cadence in order to make it sound fresh, but it's possible and modern bands do it. The trick, I think, is to use them in unexpected ways. When you hear a 7 chord, your ear wants/expects it to resolve up a 4th... but doing so sounds very very "familiar," perhaps even dated. Try making it move somewhere else, or something unexpected along those lines. Also, using a 7 chord on a degree other than the V (the only diatonic 7 chord) will sound a little more interesting or hip. Also, I think minor7 and major7 chords sound significantly less "bluesy" (a major contributor to the "dated" sound) than dominant7 chords, so you might experiment more with those. Another thing you can use seventh chords for is creating some nice chromatic movement or melodic lines in a progression. For example: C | Cmaj7 | C7 What this all basically boils down to is that if you don't use 7 chords in dated ways, it won't sound dated.

 

 

Thanks, there's a lot to think about there, I like that C | Cmaj7 | C7 progression too, though it's hard to use it without sounding like you're ripping off Burt Bacharach!

 

I suppose I was thinking about them being used in pop music, mainly on guitar where I'm used to hearing them played in that really emphatic way and, as you say, being resolved to the I chord, whereas if you play them on keyboards they're maybe not as obvious. I haven't really been paying much attention to the charts lately, so maybe they are more common than I thought. Minor seventh chords have never really gone out of favour, in fact they were being used a lot fairly recently by bands like Coldplay, Oasis and Travis.

 

And yes, point taken about not trying too hard to be trendy, that kind of thinking can make music very boring.

[kurdy]

Chords don't date. Use what's appropriate for the song.

[blue2blue]

There was a time when I thought anything that swung or had a dom 7 chord in it was hopelessly cornball... in all fairness, it was the end of the 60s and we'd just gone through an era when camp was hip... Whether it was "Winchester Cathedral" or Country Joe's "Feel-Like-I'm-a-Fixin'-to-Die Rag"... I just wanted to submerge myself in the cool, transcendent waters of acid rock and psychedelica and move on into that future paradise I knew was waiting right around the corner of the underground revolution... I'm sure that magic door is still around here... somewhere...

[elsongs]

I never thought of chords getting dated. I don't think they can.

Certain rhythms, however get dated.

[samtrips]

 

I just wanted to submerge myself in the cool, transcendent waters of acid rock and psychedelica and move on into that future paradise I knew was waiting right around the corner of the underground revolution... I'm sure that magic door is still around here... somewhere...

 

 

Hey, that sounds like me now, only I was born in 1982! Still, at least the 60s and 70s records are still here for me to dream with. I heard the magic door was in Germany for a while...Can and Neu! were seen staring intently at it, tuning their beards to E major.

 

In answer to the thread topic, I still use 7th chords in my writing. I think a lot of things, rhythms, chords, sound gimmicks eg. the vocoder a few years back, may float in and out of fashion, but a good groove is still a good groove and a good tune is still a good tune. The fact I hear 'Superstition' by Stevie Wonder every Saturday night proves this!

[les_rokr]

After hearing "Fly me to the moon" by Frank Sinatra a few months ago for the first time, I absolutley fell in love with all of those snazzy seventh chords. I am an oldies fan, as well as an indie artist myself, though I don't think that seventh chords paired with my voice sound bad at all.

[Li Shenron]

I think there is no problem with 7 chords, but don't write a blues progression.

[Dtob]

Direct rebuttal --

 

Latin music uses 7th chords up the wazoo, for instance (i -V7 - V7 - i). It's very modern to borrow from latin music in the pop world. An obvious example is "Smooth" by Santana and Rob Thomas, but there's tons of examples in the current pure pop teen music world.

 

Also, anything blues based is going to use 7th chords and I don't hear that as 60s or dated. I hear it as blues.

[Kendall]

Do note that the term "dated" is very subjective, and sometimes there can be some degree of nostalgia associated with "dated" sounding music that can potentially attract new audiences.

[rhat]

 

I play in a covers band some of the time, nothing serious just a bit of fun and a lot of the songs are from the 60's (Beatles, Kinks etc) and I really enjoy a lot of the chord sequences, many of which involve seventh chords, and now that I'm writing a bit more original material I'm thinking of using a few of them in my own songs, I don't know if it's just me though, but whenever I hear a seventh chord I immediately think of either 60's music, Blues or country and western, whereas what I'm playing is a bit more indyish and modern sounding than that. Any thoughts?

 

 

 

7chords hold the same relationship as salt or sugar to cooking ......Its hard to make anything taste good without them. If you start out trying to write a song and tell youself ,,, i wont use 7th chords because they have been using those for years .. chances are really good your song is going to be very lame. U use the chords it takes to do the song ... when you start trying to write songs by avoiding certain chords, because you think you will be ahead of the pack ....and somehow be discovered as a song writing wizard ,,,, it sounds like a goofie idea. ITs like saying i am going to ingore the circle of fifths. rat