Is a 2x12 loud enough?

[dennis138]

My current set-up is a 200 watt, 2x12 combo solid state Randall. Even when on 10, you still have trouble hearing the thing over the drums.

 

I plan on getting a Marhsall DSL50. I'd rather have the 50 watt than the 100 as I want really get the power tubes working. I'm sure through a 4x12, this would be cool. BUT, will a 2X12 cut it?

[TheEsupremacy]

Sure will!

[newholland]

i'd say probably, yes. i'm a little shocked that your randall would be barely audible... but that could have to do with the speakers and their relative efficiency.

[Sandman31774]

indeed !

[dennis138]

Here are my calculations. Tube watts are 3 times louder than solid state watts. My 200 watt solid state is not loud enough. A 50 watt tube amp would be 150 solid state watts, 50 watts less than the amp that isn't loud enough.

[abecon5]

hell yeah it will!

[cvogue]

 

i'd say probably, yes. i'm a little shocked that your randall would be barely audible... but that could have to do with the speakers and their relative efficiency.

 

 

Agreed... a 200 watt amp should be able to compete with the drums and more...

[thinkpad20]

A lot of the perceived volume comes not as much from the number of speakers (which actually make arguably little to no difference) but rather the projection of the speakers. If you have a 2x12 which is sitting on the floor pointing at your calves, it might sound a lot quieter than a 4x12 which is more at hip level, or an angled 4x12 where the top two speakers point more or less at your head. So, to make a long story short, if you're worried about getting heard over a drummer, 2x12 vs 4x12 probably won't make the difference, but raising it off the floor and/or angling it backwards a bit will help a lot. Also remember the all-important mids for cutting through the mix.

[dennis138]

 

Agreed... a 200 watt amp should be able to compete with the drums and more...

 

 

That's what I thought. Still, my drummer is always asking me turn up. He is a monster of a drummer but still, I thought it would be plenty loud.

[newholland]

 

Here are my calculations. Tube watts are 3 times louder than solid state watts. My 200 watt solid state is not loud enough. A 50 watt tube amp would be 150 solid state watts, 50 watts less than the amp that isn't loud enough.

 

 

watts are watts-- especially if you're running it full out.

 

but that's an absurd equation, because there's a lot of other factors afoot. look into other speakers that are more efficient, and your equation will really seem even more absurd.

[Badside]

If the combo is open-back, that changes a few thing

Open back actually helps to get more spread, but it's hard to get a solid low-end, so you end up over compensating.

 

I have to sell my 4X12 right now, so I'll be using my DSL with a Traynor 2X12 cab (speakers have been swapped) for a while. Did it a few times in the past, definitely loud enough, but sounds a bit different of course.

 

Actually, what's fun about 2X12 is you get to crank the amp a bit more

[Exocaster]

Volume has a lot more to do with speaker efficiency and the components and design of your amp's power section than wattage or number of speakers. There's no hard and fast rule. AC30s are plenty loud, old (JCM 800 and earlier) 50 watt Marshalls are louder still.

[Exocaster]

 

but that's an absurd equation, because there's a lot of other factors afoot. look into other speakers that are more efficient, and your equation will really seem even more absurd.

 

 

It was a pretty common myth around these parts some time ago. I haven't heard it in a while, but I've definitely heard that one before here.

[dennis138]

 

It was a pretty common myth around these parts some time ago. I haven't heard it in a while, but I've definitely heard that one before here.

 

 

HA! That's where I learned it! Right here in Harmony Central!!!!

[hecticone]

If I wanted my Tre at 120 watts with my 212 mesa would blow everybody off the stage.

[dennis138]

 

Volume has a lot more to do with speaker efficiency and the components and design of your amp's power section than wattage or number of speakers. There's no hard and fast rule. AC30s are plenty loud, old (JCM 800 and earlier) 50 watt Marshalls are louder still.

 

 

I've wondered about the speaker. Their big selling point was that they were "real Celestians" bought it's some obscure model that's not listed on the website.

[Kenny Powers]

lets put it this way:

 

 

that little 85w with that 2x12 on 3 will keep up with drums

 

EDIT:

HUGE PICTURE IS {censored}ING HUGE

[PlayboyChris]

It's a question that must be asked: you got any midrange dialed in?

[newholland]

yeah-- not trying to be a dick or anything-- but they may well be WAY inefficient speaks meant for max power handling over efficiency. if you were to put in something upwards of 100db/w... you'd see outrageous gains in sheer volume!

[thinkpad20]

Like I said before and no one seemed to notice: angle/raise your cab, boost your mids. Any response to this?

[NotDead]

Try putting in some eminences in there.

[cobrahead1030]

a good 2x12 with good speakers will be loud enough for most people, but not for everyone...you'll have to play one yourself before you really know, people will argue about this all day long here

 

some guys will tell you a 10w combo is the loudest amp you ever need, and others will play no less than a 150w half stack

 

BTW, tube amps in my experience sound louder than solid state amps do...i don't think there's really an equation to compare one to the other, but they do

 

and not even all tube amps are created equal...my 60w deliverance is about as loud as my 100w framus cobra

[schecterc1lh]

listening to you myspace songs, it is most likely you dont sound loud because you have the mids very scooped, try putting some mids and i think you will find your randall will be plenty loud, and the marshall will be even louder.

[Sixtonoize]

 

It's a question that must be asked: you got any midrange dialed in?

 

 

My thoughts exactly. If you've got no mids in your tone, all the wattage and speakers in the WORLD won't compete with drums. Before you go and upgrade all of your gear, make sure your mids are above 12:00

[Exocaster]

 

I've wondered about the speaker. Their big selling point was that they were "real Celestians" bought it's some obscure model that's not listed on the website.

 

 

If it's some random-ass speaker, whether Celestion-made or not, that's probably the quickest and cheapest fix. If you have some random speaker with a sensitivity of, say, 96dB @ 1w, and pop a Vintage 30 in there instead, which has a sensitivity of 100dB @ 1w, you've just added a pretty significant amount of volume. The decibel scale isn't linear, it's logarithmic; an increase of 10 dB (someone correct me if I've got the numbers wrong here) doubles the perceived volume of the sound. So that 4dB difference in speaker sensitivity is pretty significant.

 

Part of it's frequency content, too. For example, I replaced the V30s in my Marshall cab with WGS Green Berets. Though the Green Berets, unlike true Greenbacks, have the same sensitivity as a V30 (proper Greenies are less efficient) I noticed a decrease in volume at the same amp settings because they're a smoother sounding speaker without the big upper mid spike V30s have, and a guitar signal is primarily midrange content.

 

I know Eminence makes some super-efficient speakers that are somewhere in the 103-105dB range that will probably solve any volume issue with any amp unless there's a physical problem with the amp itself!