Members Chordptrn Posted April 22, 2008 Members Share Posted April 22, 2008 We often see the advice - "Practice, Practice, Practice" - when refering to improving songwriting skills. Do you believe that there is a limitation to the quality that comes naturally when songwriting? How much does talent or god-given gift apply when it comes to songwriting? Not evryone can be a gifted writer, like say your favorite writer....(pick your fav). There's bound to be a certain amount of improvement in one's writing over time. You hit your stride. But then does it not "level off" becoming somewhat consistent (be that good or just so-so). So basically, do you think that your "natural" skill or talent is limited and that you can only get "so good" at songwriting before you just end up on a plateau? (again be that good or mediocre). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jonas20 Posted April 22, 2008 Members Share Posted April 22, 2008 i think everyone has a natural ability that falls within a 'range' - practice, experience, influence can all affect your ability to get to the top of the range, but you can never pick-up the preset range and move it higher. imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stackabones Posted April 22, 2008 Members Share Posted April 22, 2008 It's an interesting question ... seems a bit similar to the nature/nurture debate. Is it nature? Is it nurture? Both?!?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BinaryMe Posted April 22, 2008 Members Share Posted April 22, 2008 ...'lil of both man. I was in sales for a couple of years when I was 19... fascinated by it because I sucked at it! I wanted all the skills that came along with it. I grew considerably in the challenge but had I wanted to make it a career choice, it certainly didn't fit my personality and so the "glass ceiling" that I would have would be far lower than this hot-shot, natural sales rep that just GETS PAID doin' his thing. Not everyone has the creative mind, or rather the high capacity for creativity and so their "glass ceiling" is low for the sake of song-writing. I don't have a lot of talent but 10 years of songwriting has gone by and I'm very pleased with where I am when I reflect on where I started. When you plateau, you can continue to grow. I think you just have to force yourself to grow in a different direction... even if you don't particularly want to. When you "come back" to where you plateaued... you won't regret it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chicken Monkey Posted April 22, 2008 Members Share Posted April 22, 2008 I would expect that laziness, poor lifestyle choices, and adult responsibilities will limit your growth as a songwriter far more than any lack of natural capacity could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kennychaffin Posted April 22, 2008 Members Share Posted April 22, 2008 I don't know, ask Van, Bob, or Paul (Simon or McCartney). Me, I think there is always capacity to learn and get better and in most cases once an "acceptable" threshold is reached it's a matter of drive and competing with past work. KAC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members King_For_A_Day Posted April 22, 2008 Members Share Posted April 22, 2008 I think it was Matisse who said something like, "I feel like I'm finally learning how to paint" when he was in his 90's.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members eddieboston2 Posted April 22, 2008 Members Share Posted April 22, 2008 There is a limit, but the problem is the limit keeps changing. In other words, the goal is not necessarily to be a "good" songwriter, but to be a "better" songwriter. When framed that way, it's an infinite quest, but one with many successes along the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted April 22, 2008 Members Share Posted April 22, 2008 I would expect that laziness, poor lifestyle choices, and adult responsibilities will limit your growth as a songwriter far more than any lack of natural capacity could. Ah... you guys who can't afford poor lifestyle choices are always hiding behind adult responsibilities. Sheesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted April 22, 2008 Members Share Posted April 22, 2008 There is a limit, but the problem is the limit keeps changing. In other words, the goal is not necessarily to be a "good" songwriter, but to be a "better" songwriter. When framed that way, it's an infinite quest, but one with many successes along the way. There is a limit -- but no one can say where that limit is for anyone-- certainly not the artist himself. It's not a responsibility I would foist off on other artists, but I feel like I have a responsibility to whatever force of the universe or beyond allowed me to defy everyone's expectations, including, increasingly, my own, in order to learn how to play something vaguely recognizable as music. I try to wake up everyday (that won't happen forever) thanking the powers that are for life: for joy and sorrow, for friends and family, and, always, for music. [cue outro music... fade ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bluesway Posted April 22, 2008 Members Share Posted April 22, 2008 no way... there's absolutely NO limit. why would there be? if there were some kind of limit, i wouldn't do it. now, there IS a tapering off of quality, but i think that has more to do with CM's lifestyle choices comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members meandi Posted April 22, 2008 Members Share Posted April 22, 2008 as long as one continues to pursue lifereguardless of agecontinues to seek & learnthere will always be new & exciting things to put to words & music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Liam Nixon Posted April 23, 2008 Members Share Posted April 23, 2008 There is most definitely a limit to everything. Even the amount of knowledge you can gain has a cap, though it's virtually infinite. My advice, don't be lazy, but don't push yourself too hard either. I often wonder if that's why so many of Black Flag's songs had the same structure. In the end, you just have to do your thing, and if your skill is evident, then it'll show. Limits don't really matter. They make you more creative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members King_For_A_Day Posted April 23, 2008 Members Share Posted April 23, 2008 "...No {censored}ing around now-no 119-no 121-gimme the ol' 120 'n turn up the goddam hand claps! Ow! Ow! Ow! I'm dancin'! I'm dancin'!" --Frank Zappa OT - FANTASTIC book! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members smallbutmighty Posted April 23, 2008 Members Share Posted April 23, 2008 There is most definitely a limit to everything. Even the amount of knowledge you can gain has a cap, though it's virtually infinite. Human knowledge expands every day. There are things to learn about today that didn't even exist 50 years ago....10 years ago....last week. "Have you ever wondered how much there is to know?" - Robert Plant. A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BryanMichael Posted April 23, 2008 Members Share Posted April 23, 2008 IMO most of us never really know what our limits TRULY are because we stop so short of those limitations long before we reach them because of time, fear, doubt, etc... The biggest limitation I see in creative people is their total resistance to education, formal or otherwise regarding their chosen art/craft. When it comes to creative endeavors people really tend to believe you either "have it" or you don't and no ammount of educating oneself is going to change that, so why bother? ANd that is incredibly limiting. Creative folks are also so wrapped up in the idea that everything surrounding anything creative is an OPINION, so what makes learning worth anything if it's just another opinion? All of these things tend to limit people in my experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members smallbutmighty Posted April 23, 2008 Members Share Posted April 23, 2008 IMO most of us never really know what our limits TRULY are because we stop so short of those limitations long before we reach them because of time, fear, doubt, etc...The biggest limitation I see in creative people is their total resistance to education, formal or otherwise regarding their chosen art/craft. When it comes to creative endeavors people really tend to believe you either "have it" or you don't and no ammount of educating oneself is going to change that, so why bother? ANd that is incredibly limiting. Creative folks are also so wrapped up in the idea that everything surrounding anything creative is an OPINION, so what makes learning worth anything if it's just another opinion? All of these things tend to limit people in my experience. Great post Bryan. A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AudiLikeA4 Posted April 25, 2008 Members Share Posted April 25, 2008 The only limit to songwriting is how open your mind is, if you can feel emotion without reacting to it you can write songs that touch the very being within. People don't write songs, songs write themselves. The people writing them are merely a medium present enough to hear the song manifest itself. Next time you want to write a song just be still and listen/feel the music that wants to be born. I sound like a hippy, I know. I've had some humbling experiences in the last couple months that have shaken my foundation and brought forward my beliefs. I'm a lot more open to the situations at hand, and this has lead me to songwriting. I use to write, but always got stuck/frustrated. Now I don't try, I just listen and the songs are constantly coming. I've gone as far as buying a digital recorder so I can sing the songs as they come along and pick them apart later, sometimes writing things down takes too much time and loses the melody. Now I'm working on learning guitar/piano/singing as well as some composition programs so I can put my music together. I have realized my dreams, I believe in them, and I intend to follow them to succession. When it comes to what you want it doesn't matter what others believe, you have to believe in yourself, then the others will believe in you;) All my best to you in writing,August Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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