Members neptune1bond Posted February 1, 2011 Author Members Share Posted February 1, 2011 I like the idea of keeping up trying to learn from some of the vocalists you like, as others have suggested. It's probably obvious, but listen to their phrasing, the way they let texture into their voice (don't trash yourself trying to sound like Tom Waits of course ), their rhythm emphases, etc. Actually, for learning guitar, sheet music is fine -- as long as it has simple chord charts above the staff... that brings the 'chord instruction' right to where you need it and keeps you from having to look up chords, etc. You're going to want to strum. (Although some very basic fingerpicking might also be an early thing to look into. But baby steps first... learn to strum with basic chords.) Tab is more about writing guitar melodies -- and it's inadequate for the job unless it's accompanied by rhythmic information -- and that pretty much means a standard notation staff along with it. Chords are typically called by name among guitarists; it's sort of expected that you can call a G7 or Am6 to a journeyman guitarist and he'll be able to take it from there. So, unless there's a lead to communicate, a fake book might be as over-simple as a staff template with bar lines and chord names over them. (Regular guitar oriented fake books do typically have the melody written in them in standard notation, with the chord name over.) Speaking of chords... keys. On the guitar, the capo is your friend. It will allow you to transpose (to some extent, since putting the capo way up on the 10th fret may not be convenient ) without going through the mental gymnastics. (It's like using a MIDI keyboard's transpose function in that sense.) With regard to beginner books, honestly, I think you can mostly skip that, since you already understand your musical fundamentals. Learn the basic chords, learn how to use a capo to transpose when you find yourself confronted with a guitar-unfriendly key. (And do learn to do basic barre chords; they don't feel natural at first, which is precisely why they give tyros such a hard time. Take it easy, no sense stressing your fingers (some finger warm ups before practice or just some simple guitar warm up exercises may help get your fingers loosened up), but keep at it in a slow, steady fashion; take it easy, and you'll slowly get your left (assuming you're right handed) index finger used to laying down flat as a barre. The 'E' shape chord is easiest. The "A" shape barre is harder, since you have to get your ring finger flattened across three strings... give it plenty of time. You'll probably need the E shape barre first, since it's hard to get a full F with a low bass any other way. (You can 'cheat' when you need to -- Fmaj7 (what you get when you lift the barre on a barred F) is a pretty chord -- but just don't give up. You'll get there.) BTW, I was just listening to big, randomized Rhapsody (my on-demand subscription music service) playlist and I heard this slightly awkward, 'classical' style vocalist doing the Beatles "Yesterday" (on a whim one day, I collected like 20 versions of "Yesterday and 20 versions of "Yesterdays" and through them in there)... I didn't recognize the vocalist but I immediately flashed back to this ongoing conversation and flipped to Rhap to see who it was. I was pretty drop-jawed to find it was 60's model/chanteuse Marianne Faithful, probably from back in the 60s. Someone had obviously put her through singing lessons and the seams were definitely showing. Like I said, awkward. Neither fish nor fowl. But if you flash forward to 1979 and her breakthrough 'comeback' album (lots of folks would suggest she didn't really have anywhere to come back from -- the song Mick Jagger wrote for her in the mid-60s, "As Tears Go By" had been a flash in the pan in her career)... it really shocked a lot of people -- not just because of her extremely mature song writing (and I mean that in many ways) but because her voice was just raw, sounding like a million cigarettes washed down by way too much whiskey. People who had completely written her off were riveted by the transformations that a decade plus out of the spotlight had wrought. Overnight she gained credibility as a serious artist and writer. Not sure what the point of that observation is, except that significant change can be accomplished. (I do not recommend trashing your voice to do so, mind you. ) I almost forgot to say. This was extremely helpful. Thank you very much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members neptune1bond Posted February 1, 2011 Author Members Share Posted February 1, 2011 Your perfume is the everything in your personality its play an important rule I'm sorry, but I'm not sure if I understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members honeyiscool Posted February 3, 2011 Members Share Posted February 3, 2011 I'm a classical pianist by training, studied under a pupil of a pupil of Franz Liszt. But for the past many years, I've been playing pretty much exclusively rock and pop music. The best way to not sound like a classical blowhard who is a wannabe rock star is to switch instruments. Try playing with a Fender rhodes sound or a Hammond organ sound. It will give you dynamics and tone that is very rock and pop friendly, yet classy. I like the Rhodes sound a lot because you can play it very busy, taking advantage of all that great classical training, and have it still not take up too much space, and not have that annoying ping ping ping that acoustic piano can often have. Plus, it gets you not sounding like Ben Folds, and that's a good thing. It's really hard to play rock piano in a fashion that doesn't get extremely cheesy and elevator sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted February 3, 2011 Moderators Share Posted February 3, 2011 The best way to not sound like a classical blowhard who is a wannabe rock star is to switch instruments..It's not working with your posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members honeyiscool Posted February 3, 2011 Members Share Posted February 3, 2011 It is what it is. When it comes to my other instruments, my songwriting, or singing, I'm as humble as they get. But when it comes to the things I am excellent at, I probably border on being arrogant because I do happen to be excellent at these things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted February 3, 2011 Moderators Share Posted February 3, 2011 It is what it is. When it comes to my other instruments, my songwriting, or singing, I'm as humble as they get. But when it comes to the things I am excellent at, I probably border on being arrogant because I do happen to be excellent at these things. More and more, I'm strangely attracted to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members honeyiscool Posted February 3, 2011 Members Share Posted February 3, 2011 I'm just trying to get more posts in so when I post, I'm not the guy with 8 posts who posts a crappy song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted February 3, 2011 Members Share Posted February 3, 2011 I almost forgot to say. This was extremely helpful. Thank you very much! Now... just don't go out and drink a bunch of whiskey and start smoking like a chimney, because that's not really the lesson of Marianne Faithful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted February 3, 2011 Members Share Posted February 3, 2011 I'm just trying to get more posts in so when I post, I'm not the guy with 8 posts who posts a crappy song. Hey, if those 8 posts were good, helpful comments or observations about songwriting craft, that guy would be 7 points ahead of a lot of folks we welcome anyhow. I try to make sure folks understand that the best way to get helpful feedback is to be known as someone who gives it -- but, let's face it, a lot of times folks go out looking for a forum like this right when they've got a new song they're unsure of. What's nice is when they get it but then stick around, giving back and becoming a member of the community. (And what makes me go reaching for the facepalm icon is when they post a song for feedback on their first post here, wait an hour or two and then start whining about how no one is giving them feedback. But, you know, people... can't live with them, can't eat them for breakfast. At least, not in this jurisdiction.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted February 3, 2011 Moderators Share Posted February 3, 2011 ditto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted February 3, 2011 Members Share Posted February 3, 2011 More and more, I'm strangely attracted to you.It's the kitty picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Matximus Posted February 3, 2011 Members Share Posted February 3, 2011 By reading this post and the one that you posted before, I get the idea that you think that I'm a much better vocalist than I probably really am (sorry if that's an incorrect assumption). .....glad that you might assume that, but I don't want people to get the wrong idea because they might be quite disappointed when I actually try to post a song to get some opinions. I'm also not necessarily going to change everything I do to sound like a poor imitation of one of my favorite singers. I just want to learn how to sing in the pop/rock style, and after I can sound like I belong in pop/rock to a reasonable degree, then I want to incorporate my other training and create an individual sound that's completely my own (or at least try to). ... . It comes across as kinda strange and uncomfortable and like some bizarre mismatch of style. I really want it to sound like it fits. And I also want to find a way to be versatile to the point where I could sing a variety of songs in these various styles and make them not merely passable, but actually really good. I do understand what you mean about not damaging my voice to create the "rock sound", though. And that's another thing that I'm trying to work through. I have a hard time finding a sound that's believable in rock (even though I go for the softer types of rock) and not tearing my voice up with some fake "soulful" sound that just isn't part of my voice naturally. And trying to manufacture that sound makes it sound all the more ridiculous and unnatural, not to mention that it's probably never going to end up sounding all that great no matter how much I practice it. But there are some rockers (I'm probably using that term somewhat loosely according to most people who wouldn't consider soft rock and pop rock as any type of rock at all) who do not tear their voice to shreds trying to sound "soulful" and still are extremely believable in what they do. What is it that makes their sound "work"? I just don't know. I think that maybe the best thing is for me to actually post myself singing a pop or rock song (I'll do it in the singers forum, blue2blue ) and get some opinions on how I can improve. I think that it's gonna be hard for people to give me any more specific advice than they already have without having heard me actually sing something. ANyone who says they aren't good at something - is probably better than they're letting on. But I was talking about you and singing and general - it sounds like you have your head on straight about the whole situation. Although don't under-rate the the draw of a "bizarre mismatch of style..." It can be awful - but freaking awesome too. Take Reggea. Add Disco: Rap!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted February 3, 2011 Members Share Posted February 3, 2011 Although don't under-rate the the draw of a "bizarre mismatch of style..." It can be awful - but freaking awesome too. Take Reggea. Add Disco: Rap!!!I always thought the equation was: (dub + toasting) * funk / (talking blues / (Subterranean Homesick Blues + The Revolution Will Not Be Televised)) = rap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members honeyiscool Posted February 4, 2011 Members Share Posted February 4, 2011 I try to make sure folks understand that the best way to get helpful feedback is to be known as someone who gives it -- but, let's face it, a lot of times folks go out looking for a forum like this right when they've got a new song they're unsure of. What's nice is when they get it but then stick around, giving back and becoming a member of the community. (And what makes me go reaching for the facepalm icon is when they post a song for feedback on their first post here, wait an hour or two and then start whining about how no one is giving them feedback. But, you know, people... can't live with them, can't eat them for breakfast. At least, not in this jurisdiction.)Yeah I get you. I'm a message board vet, I know how they work. I've always found that when it comes to internet communities and well, life in general, the love you take is equal to the love you make. You gotta give to receive. This place seems like a sane group of people with a common interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oswlek Posted February 4, 2011 Members Share Posted February 4, 2011 This place seems like a sane group of people with a common interest.You might want to wait until your post count hits triple digits before passing judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted February 4, 2011 Members Share Posted February 4, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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