Moderators Lee Knight Posted December 19, 2011 Moderators Share Posted December 19, 2011 Remember, this is a hard rock tune I'm writing for an old rock and roll buddy. Picture Paul Rodgers and Lou Gramm mixed with over the top 80's hair band histrionics. OK... so I have a nice solid basic track of drums, bass, and two guitars. Very TedNugeThinLizzyTieYourMotherDown-esque. I've sung a rough for him to learn the gist of the tune and then he'll go off vocally from there with me producing. And he'll add additional guitars. And I quite like the lyric, amazingly enough. Except that first line. It's content is there, but the wording is not cool enough sounding. It might be the rhythm of it... or the mention of the word "kids". I really don't know. But the idea of it does setup the whole lyric. Don't live in the past, and don't repeat the past's mistakes Fire and Whiskey V1Talkin' 'bout all the crap we pulled as kidsIt's lucky we're aliveBut you can't change history and even if you didWe woulda missed the rideC1Fire and whiskeySmokin' with a friendMemory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LCK Posted December 19, 2011 Members Share Posted December 19, 2011 Talkin' 'bout the crap we pulled as kids. To me, that's the most direct and economical set of syllables. I don't know if it fits the rhythm of the tune. Verse one, as written starts with a 10-syllable line. Verse two starts with a 14-syllable line. So it seems like you haven't really honed in on the underlying structure yet. Also, your first line echoes Paul Simon's "When I think back on all the crap I learned in high school..." Is that a + or -? A lift or an homage? LCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rsadasiv Posted December 19, 2011 Members Share Posted December 19, 2011 Talkin' 'bout the crap we pulled as kids. To me, that's the most direct and economical set of syllables. I don't know if it fits the rhythm of the tune. Verse one, as written starts with a 10-syllable line. Verse two starts with a 14-syllable line. So it seems like you haven't really honed in on the underlying structure yet. Also, your first line echoes Paul Simon's "When I think back on all the crap I learned in high school..." Is that a + or -? A lift or an homage? LCK I love Kodachrome! That's a great line (the repetition of the hard "c" really makes it), but I think it has more syllables than Lee has in his music, and if you can't get both "c" sounds the line doesn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted December 19, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted December 19, 2011 Talkin' 'bout the crap we pulled as kids. To me, that's the most direct and economical set of syllables. I don't know if it fits the rhythm of the tune. Verse one, as written starts with a 10-syllable line. Verse two starts with a 14-syllable line. So it seems like you haven't really honed in on the underlying structure yet. Also, your first line echoes Paul Simon's "When I think back on all the crap I learned in high school..." Is that a + or -? A lift or an homage? LCK I'm definitely aware of the similarity. since it first popped into my head. I thought it different enough and yet similar enough that the word "homage" would fit for a description. As I touched upon, I'm going the accent/stress route and not necessarily an exact syllable count. What I tried to do, as illustration, was fill in the missing syllables with either likely candidate lyrics or a place holder with the (a). They both then work out as 15 syllables. Straight 8ths right on through. We were runnin' like a motor racin' right between the lines (We were) talkin' 'bout (a) all the crap (that) we pulled as (a) kids And maybe that reading directly above ^ is what it should be. As you say, Lee, it is the most direct. It did feel sort of wimpy but maybe with the additions in ( )'s, that might be the ticket... no wait... ok: We were talkin' 'bouta all the crap we pulled as little kids Or let a breath/beat occur after 'bout. Here with the accents italicized, each landing on a down beat. Tapping your foot, each of the following italics lands on a downbeat. We were 1 talkin' 'bout... 2 all the crap we 3 pulled as little 4 kids That might do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LCK Posted December 19, 2011 Members Share Posted December 19, 2011 I'm going the accent/stress route and not necessarily an exact syllable count. What I tried to do, as illustration, was fill in the missing syllables with either likely candidate lyrics or a place holder with the (a). They both then work out as 15 syllables. Straight 8ths right on through.We were runnin' like a motor racin' right between the lines(We were) talkin' 'bout (a) all the crap (that) we pulled as (a) kidsAnd maybe that reading directly above ^ is what it should be. As you say, Lee, it is the most direct. It did feel sort of wimpy but maybe with the additions in ( )'s, that might be the ticket... no wait... ok:We were talkin' 'bouta all the crap we pulled as little kids Or let a breath/beat occur after 'bout. Here with the accents italicized, each landing on a down beat. Tapping your foot, each of the following italics lands on a downbeat.We were 1 talkin' 'bout... 2 all the crap we 3 pulled as little 4 kids . You lost me at "accent/stress route," primarily because there's no audio file to fill in the blanks. Also, I don't think the song is about what you guys did as "little kids," but probably as teenagers. LCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted December 19, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted December 19, 2011 you're right about the teens thing... hmmm... I'll post my demo later. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted December 19, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted December 19, 2011 Talk about the crap you pulled you'll never make it goodIt's lucky you're aliveBut you can't change history and even if you couldYou woulda missed the ride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhino55 Posted December 19, 2011 Members Share Posted December 19, 2011 You lost me at "accent/stress route," primarily because there's no audio file to fill in the blanks.Also, I don't think the song is about what you guys did as "little kids," but probably as teenagers.LCK This. In addition to the Paul Simon song now that LCK mentioned it, I also get kind of a Glory Days vibe. I don't really see either as a - what about this? Talkin' on the {censored} we pulled when we thought we'd live forever or Talkin' on the {censored} we pulled, we thought we'd live forever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted December 19, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted December 19, 2011 The word '{censored}' came to mind immediately but... I'd like to make this TV sync friendly. I love the live forever idea but the word has only clunky rhymes. And I love "even if you did/could". How about: Talkin' 'bout the crap you pulled you'll never make it goodIt's lucky you're aliveBut you can't change history and even if you couldYou woulda missed the ride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted December 19, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted December 19, 2011 Talkin' 'bout the mess you made you never made it goodIt's lucky you're aliveBut you can't change history and even if you couldYou woulda missed the ride I think I like that^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members oldgitplayer Posted December 19, 2011 Members Share Posted December 19, 2011 V2This line jumped out at me as being a bit 'proper' to come out of this character's mouth : We were runnin' like a motor racin' right between the linesTryin' to kill the light of dayWatch it, what you think about, what occupies your mind............. how about : Watch it, what you think about, what hangs out in your mindThe past is just a thought away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted December 19, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted December 19, 2011 Talkin' 'bout the mess we made when we were just kidsIt's lucky we're aliveBut you can't change history and even if you didWe woulda missed the ride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted December 19, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted December 19, 2011 V2This line jumped out at me as being a bit 'proper' to come out of this character's mouth :We were runnin' like a motor racin' right between the linesTryin' to kill the light of dayWatch it, what you think about, what occupies your mind............. how about : Watch it, what you think about, what hangs out in your mindThe past is just a thought away Yeah... I see that. Watch it, what you think about, what tangles up your mindor Watch it, what you think about, what's trippin' up your mind I think that might be easier to sing and grab hold of in this style. Thanks, good catch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members oldgitplayer Posted December 19, 2011 Members Share Posted December 19, 2011 Yeah... I see that.Watch it, what you think about, what tangles up your mindor Watch it, what you think about, what's trippin' up your mindI think that might be easier to sing and grab hold of in this style. Thanks, good catch. Yep - these are good. I prefer tangles up my mind but it is a Dylan line - but does it matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members oldgitplayer Posted December 19, 2011 Members Share Posted December 19, 2011 No - on 2nd thoughts - Dylan's line is .....and it strangled up my mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members oldgitplayer Posted December 19, 2011 Members Share Posted December 19, 2011 Talkin' 'bout the mess we made when we were just kidsIt's lucky we're aliveBut you can't change history and even if you didWe woulda missed the ride How about : How many times as kids we nearly hit the skidsIt's lucky we're alive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted December 19, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted December 19, 2011 Trippin' vs. Tangled. I do like tangled better but it doesn't sing as well in this machine gun delivery. I think I like this so far... Talkin' 'bout the mess you made you never made it goodIt's lucky you're aliveBut you can't change history and even if you couldYou woulda missed the rideC1Fire and whiskeySmokin' with a friendMemory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhino55 Posted December 19, 2011 Members Share Posted December 19, 2011 Trippin' vs. Tangled. I do like tangled better but it doesn't sing as well in this machine gun delivery. I think trippin' fits the mood better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LCK Posted December 19, 2011 Members Share Posted December 19, 2011 Yeah... I see that.Watch it, what you think about, what tangles up your mindor Watch it, what you think about, what's trippin' up your mindI think that might be easier to sing and grab hold of in this style. Thanks, good catch. Funny. I really like occupies. It depends on the tune, I guess. LCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LCK Posted December 19, 2011 Members Share Posted December 19, 2011 Also, I don't like your replacements for "crap we pulled when we were kids..." "You'll never make it good?" What does that mean? I say stick with your homage, just disguise it a little better. LCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rsadasiv Posted December 19, 2011 Members Share Posted December 19, 2011 Also, I don't like your replacements for "crap we pulled when we were kids...""You'll never make it good?" What does that mean?I say stick with your homage, just disguise it a little better.LCK Agreed. I say stick with your homage, just make it more explicit. The song is about a smart guy helping out his rocker friend. The tension between those two points of view is there in both the conception and the execution of the song - why not acknowledge that conflict right off the bat and make it work for you instead of against you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LCK Posted December 19, 2011 Members Share Posted December 19, 2011 How about going for perfect rhymes, a la Sondheim's dictum below? Talkin' 'bout the crap we pulled, before we hit the skids,man, how'd we make it out alive?But then the past was such a blast, back when we were only kids,too drunk to care, too young to drive. LCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted December 20, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted December 20, 2011 How about going for perfect rhymes, a la Sondheim's dictum below? Talkin' 'bout the crap we pulled, before we hit the skids, man, how'd we make it out alive? But then the past was such a blast, back when we were only kids, too drunk to care, too young to drive. LCK Maybe a little too Sondheim for the application? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members b_f_c_99 Posted December 20, 2011 Members Share Posted December 20, 2011 Hmm I have about 6 songs I wrote 20 years ago that are in this vein, let me get out my old lyric book and see if I got something that fits the bill. I think what is bugging you about the first line is just the suddeness of it kinda like you just ran into an old friend and he blurts out "I'm wearing new socks!" At least that is what is bugging me. Usually you would have a set up "I was talking to a friend the other day" or some sort of "Remember when we were kids/young ect" Without that setup it just jumps right out and seems out of place. But after then song gets going the setup is there and the rest of it flows out really nice. Something I wrote years ago: I remember back just out of High SchoolWe broke some hearts, I broke mine toAin't it funny how some hearts never heal?Guess it just isn't part of the deal. To me this sets up the rest of the song. Maybe you need to add another verse that sets up the original one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LCK Posted December 20, 2011 Members Share Posted December 20, 2011 Maybe a little too Sondheim for the application? Really? I thought that last line was pretty good. Too drunk to care, too young to drive. I think that's a pretty good line. Not dumb enough for the genre? LCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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