Members Mark Blackburn Posted July 12, 2012 Members Share Posted July 12, 2012 Because of you and your link (above) I've been lost for fully half an hour in the quoteinvestigator; not a complete loss, mind you, as it provided my much-needed "laughter of the day." As that famous philosopher-turned-comedian-turned-actor Steve Martin used to say, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Folder Posted July 13, 2012 Members Share Posted July 13, 2012 but one thing that was good back then was that much of the lower quality songs were filtered out by the record executive process, and only the cream floated to the top. I knew what the best songs were because that's what they told me. There was a time when record companies were run by people who were in the record business because they liked music and knew something about it. Radio stations were owned and run by people who liked music and knew something about it. That world doesn't exist anymore. There are only three major record companies left in this world and they are not much interested in nurturing artists or promoting quality music. They are aiming for the lowest common denominator, mostly teen pop and hip-hop. But even if they were interested it wouldn't really matter because there is no place for creative or inovative music on the radio today. Since the nineties most major radio stations have been bought up by one of the big telecommunications companies and are being programed from corporate headquarters using faulty research methods. Radio has always been the driving force of the music business. Every generation's musical taste's were formed mostly by what they heard on the radio. This generation's taste's are being developed while listening to non-melodic, computer generated music and aggressive rock. Both genres that are not known for great songwriting, IMHO. For the last thirty years the hypothetical question has been "If the Beatles were to come out today would they be successful?" Until very recently my opinion was always that they would be successful because the cream always rises to the top. I no longer believe that. They might sell a couple hundred thousand records and have a devoted internet following but they would only be considered a hip cult band . I doubt that they would get much promotion and I don't think there is any radio format today that would play them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Canvas Posted July 13, 2012 Members Share Posted July 13, 2012 And what's the problem with that, Folder? Why are musicians entitled to making a living from their music? I mean, I love playing video games, but I don't get angry because no one wants to pay me to do it; there are a handful of people who make it into tournaments and make it out with wads of cash, but where's the fun in that? In general it works the other way around. If you like doing something, typically you pay to do it. If you can do something you love and just break even, that's pretty damn good! When people get paid, usually it's because they're doing a job no one else wants to do. Yes, if I was to look at the top 40 right now I wouldn't be particularly proud, but I'd be hard pressed to say the music people listen to nowadays is objectively "better" or "worse"; those distinctions seem to be made mostly to distinguish ourselves from social groups we don't want to belong to (in our case, the crude masses) and to reinforce our belonging to an opposite group (in our case, "true" artists). I don't think it's fair to say, "the music business forms tastes and I don't like what's on the radio, so the music business is creating a world in which terrible taste rules! That's terrible!"... What's happening is that you and I don't like what's on the radio, that's all; it sucks, but it's very subjective. In an objective sense, the world is changing, not getting worst. That being said, I understand payola and its Youtube equivalent are very dishonest practices and I'm not saying we should just deal with that. What I'm saying is, maybe because I don't have the same fascination with the radio as some of you guys, as a musician I've grown up with the idea that making it is not possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mark Blackburn Posted July 16, 2012 Members Share Posted July 16, 2012 What a wonderful reflection from the "junior member from Ottawa" (my home town!). Nice to see that song writing ain't dead, and nor is this thread. (I feel a song coming on.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Folder Posted July 20, 2012 Members Share Posted July 20, 2012 as a musician I've grown up with the idea that making it is not possible. Depends on what your idea of making it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Canvas Posted July 21, 2012 Members Share Posted July 21, 2012 I think we essentially agree on the topic of songwriting, but I just don't think it's our business to tell people what to listen to. The fact that the masses listen to music which we don't like doesn't mean there's an issue so long as we can listen to what we do like. Besides, our tastes are formed early on. This seems to me like a much less subjective way of understanding your distancing yourself from top 40 radio stations. Your taste could have remained virtually the same, and those criteria you use to define good and bad music no longer apply to people who actually like those radio stations. I'll keep from making the claim that this is true for you, but it surely is for others; just take a good look at any comment section on Youtube.To say those who like what you don't have terrible taste is close-minded; anyone with diametrically opposite taste would be equally justified in making that statement about your own (that is to say, not at all). "I don't like this music", however, is perfectly fine. Folder, I don't know who you are and I can't tell what your aspirations as a musician look like (though from your last sentence I take it you just want to make some tunes), so it wasn't really you I was talking about. What I was saying was that it didn't really bother me that Rebecca Black was such a big deal, because I don't care about most of Youtube. I'm not interested on being on the radio either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rsadasiv Posted July 21, 2012 Members Share Posted July 21, 2012 What I was saying was that it didn't really bother me that Rebecca Black was such a big deal, because I don't care about most of Youtube. I'm not interested on being on the radio either. How about HC forumite micwalt's Hair Metal Version of Friday: [video=youtube;Fms1MUKYAcU] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Folder Posted July 21, 2012 Members Share Posted July 21, 2012 I think we essentially agree on the topic of songwriting, but I just don't think it's our business to tell people what to listen to. The fact that the masses listen to music which we don't like doesn't mean there's an issue so long as we can listen to what we do like. Besides, our tastes are formed early on. This seems to me like a much less subjective way of understanding your distancing yourself from top 40 radio stations. Your taste could have remained virtually the same, and those criteria you use to define good and bad music no longer apply to people who actually like those radio stations. I'll keep from making the claim that this is true for you, but it surely is for others; just take a good look at any comment section on Youtube.To say those who like what you don't have terrible taste is close-minded; anyone with diametrically opposite taste would be equally justified in making that statement about your own (that is to say, not at all). "I don't like this music", however, is perfectly fine. Folder, I don't know who you are and I can't tell what your aspirations as a musician look like (though from your last sentence I take it you just want to make some tunes), so it wasn't really you I was talking about. What I was saying was that it didn't really bother me that Rebecca Black was such a big deal, because I don't care about most of Youtube. I'm not interested on being on the radio either. Whenever I hear people complain about the quality of today's music (which is quite often) what I infer is that they are really complaining about the music they are hearing on the radio. The music business of today is not the same music business of 40 years ago or even 20 years ago. The music being played on the radio most vividly demonstrates this change. The idea of teen pop stars becoming super stars and continuing their careers into adulthood by producing the same disposal teen pop music that they made when they were teenagers is a relatively new business model. But that is another topic for another thread. I have always prided myself in that I've always tried to keep up with what's going on in the world of popular music. There has always been a lot of music that I like and a lot of music that I don't like in a variety of different styles and genres. If I didn't like one song I could flip the station and find a song I did like. Maybe you've never listened to the radio but playlists have been reduced and formats are more restricted than ever before. The fact that I and others in my age group no longer have top 40 stations in our dials demonstrates this. Top forty used to be a varied format. Pop, rock, soul, jazz, country whatever happened to climb the charts and crossover to the top 40. Now it is mostly teen pop and hip-hop oriented. I like some teen pop and some hip-hop but I don't like enough of it to warrant having it in my radio dial. When I read the comments on YouTube I often see comments from teenagers who complain about the sorry state of their generations music. What they are really complaining about is the sorry state of todays music business and todays radio. They have to search for good music on the internet because they are not as likely to find it on the radio as my generation was. There is a lot of great music being made today if you know where to find it, but it is much more difficult it not near impossible for good bands to make it on the radio these days. Like I said in an earlier post I no longer think the Beatles would be successful if they came out today. For most of the last 40 years I would have thought they would be. The art of songwriting is not dead but the music business model of the past is unfortunately dead. But that is another topic for another thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members espec10001 Posted July 22, 2012 Members Share Posted July 22, 2012 Whenever I hear people complain about the quality of today's music (which is quite often) what I infer is that they are really complaining about the music they are hearing on the radio. The music business of today is not the same music business of 40 years ago or even 20 years ago. The music being played on the radio most vividly demonstrates this change. The idea of teen pop stars becoming super stars and continuing their careers into adulthood by producing the same disposal teen pop music that they made when they were teenagers is a relatively new business model. But that is another topic for another thread.I have always prided myself in that I've always tried to keep up with what's going on in the world of popular music. There has always been a lot of music that I like and a lot of music that I don't like in a variety of different styles and genres. If I didn't like one song I could flip the station and find a song I did like. Maybe you've never listened to the radio but playlists have been reduced and formats are more restricted than ever before. The fact that I and others in my age group no longer have top 40 stations in our dials demonstrates this. Top forty used to be a varied format. Pop, rock, soul, jazz, country whatever happened to climb the charts and crossover to the top 40. Now it is mostly teen pop and hip-hop oriented. I like some teen pop and some hip-hop but I don't like enough of it to warrant having it in my radio dial. When I read the comments on YouTube I often see comments from teenagers who complain about the sorry state of their generations music. What they are really complaining about is the sorry state of todays music business and todays radio. They have to search for good music on the internet because they are not as likely to find it on the radio as my generation was. There is a lot of great music being made today if you know where to find it, but it is much more difficult it not near impossible for good bands to make it on the radio these days. Like I said in an earlier post I no longer think the Beatles would be successful if they came out today. For most of the last 40 years I would have thought they would be.The art of songwriting is not dead but the music business model of the past is unfortunately dead. But that is another topic for another thread. Tune in to college radio stations if you can. They are more open to unknown artists and play new things, good and bad. I've had to sit through some stinkers on college radio for a while, but then there's that ONE song by some unknown artist that makes it all worth it and you're clamoring to find out who the artist is and to hear it again. Commercial radio, though, stinks. I'm guessing they have to satisfy their advertisers so they stick to the tried and true songs, which ironically might be harming them more if people stop listening because they're sick of it. I've already heard the Rolling Stones hits so many times and I've "Gotten the Led Out" enough already I don't want to hear it anymore! Come on! I think commercial radio is shooting themselves in the foot doing this! At least they could get a guy to listen to college radio for the gems and then play the good ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Folder Posted July 22, 2012 Members Share Posted July 22, 2012 Tune in to college radio stations if you can. They are more open to unknown artists and play new things, good and bad. I've had to sit through some stinkers on college radio for a while, but then there's that ONE song by some unknown artist that makes it all worth it and you're clamoring to find out who the artist is and to hear it again. The first time I ever heard "Smells Like Teen Spirit" by Nirvana was on a college radio station. I still remember exactly where I was and the car I was driving at the time. I wanted to hear it again immediately. It was another week or two before I finally heard it on commercial radio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members HoboSage Posted July 22, 2012 Members Share Posted July 22, 2012 Yes. Songwriting is dead. Welcome to Purgatory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Canvas Posted July 23, 2012 Members Share Posted July 23, 2012 @rsadasiv: oh boy@Folder: fair enough. I think we pretty much agree that songwriting and business are two different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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