Members Marshal Posted August 9, 2012 Members Share Posted August 9, 2012 The more I listen to others, the more I realize we all stay within our comfort zone. Probably Lee Knight kept the closest to the feel of Jack's lyrics, on the verses. But even he lapsed into Lee Knight style on the chorus. Very nice for sure. But everybody sees things differently through their own lens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chriscarnucci Posted August 9, 2012 Members Share Posted August 9, 2012 For me it was the Chorus. To me it was about the human condition. I saw it as the moon was a witness to this guys life (good and bad). The verses set this up for me as the birds, cow and truck just plow on through life, just being what god or man intended, but humans struggle with meaning in everything.The Chorus kind of summed up , and came to terms with, the whole "human condition thing".I will add I'm not a huge fan for bluegrass or old thyme country music, so in my mind, I heard the chorus as folksy or more serious. What got me wondering, was if I could mold the melody to make the verses fit the chorus I heard in my head.I didn't spend time enough on the recording (actually I kept screwing it up) so i just pieced something together to get the idea across. (I know the recording sucks and if I get some time I might re-record it. ) I might reuse the melody in a future song too, cause I realy do like the melody and the chord progression.But, there is my chapter in this story... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Marshal Posted August 9, 2012 Members Share Posted August 9, 2012 . . . , but humans struggle with meaning in everything. . . , Tell me about it ! ! ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RickDieffenbach Posted August 9, 2012 Members Share Posted August 9, 2012 So my idea was that I'd have a sustained but multi-note melody for the word "moon". Lee - the above line intrigued me. Am I to understand you looked at the chorus and knew or thought that the multi note moon would work before strumming the first chord? I went back and relistened to your version and it certainly does. I got the sense from your post that you (perhaps sometimes) sketch out in your head what the key points are you want to drive home, and how that might be achieved, before the guitar is picked up? (I'm talking more in general rather than just this song.) Much like some water color artists sketch with pencil first. If so I never thought to do that. And I'm liken the idea. It tickles the engineer in me. (What little is left)... Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted August 9, 2012 Moderators Share Posted August 9, 2012 Lee - the above line intrigued me. Am I to understand you looked at the chorus and knew or thought that the multi note moon would work before strumming the first chord? I went back and relistened to your version and it certainly does. I got the sense from your post that you (perhaps sometimes) sketch out in your head what the key points are you want to drive home, and how that might be achieved, before the guitar is picked up? (I'm talking more in general rather than just this song.) Much like some water color artists sketch with pencil first. If so I never thought to do that. And I'm liken the idea. It tickles the engineer in me. (What little is left)... Rick Absolutely. I mean, I'm no Mozart writing the whole thing in my head or anything, but yeah, I heard the verses in my head pretty straight away and knew I wanted to break away pretty substantially for the chorus to get that effect of summing it all up. So yeah, I then heard that little melody all on "moo-oo-oo-oo- oo-n". That was in my head as was me wanting an interesting chord there. Once I "stumbled" on the bVI after picking up the guitar, it was almost done.I usually like to do it like that as much as possible. I like what comes out of my imagination more that what I can consciously wrestle out of a guitar or piano. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RickDieffenbach Posted August 9, 2012 Members Share Posted August 9, 2012 Epiphany time! Thank you Lee! "I like what comes out of my imagination more that what I can consciously wrestle out of a guitar or piano." Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rsadasiv Posted August 9, 2012 Members Share Posted August 9, 2012 Epiphany time! Thank you Lee! "I like what comes out of my imagination more that what I can consciously wrestle out of a guitar or piano." Rick Yeah, I just have a terrible time keeping that damn thing in tune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oswlek Posted August 9, 2012 Members Share Posted August 9, 2012 Yeah, I just have a terrible time keeping that damn thing in tune. LOL. What a fascinating discussion. Songwriting conversations are much more interesting when they are built around a framework and not talking too high level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members oldgitplayer Posted August 9, 2012 Members Share Posted August 9, 2012 I got the sense from your post that you (perhaps sometimes) sketch out in your head what the key points are you want to drive home, and how that might be achieved, before the guitar is picked up? (I'm talking more in general rather than just this song.) Much like some water color artists sketch with pencil first. If so I never thought to do that. And I'm liken the idea. It tickles the engineer in me. (What little is left)... Rick Rick - This is a useful process for those of us who aren't musical savants......I have spent more than 40 years in a design career, and often the problems to be solved require the coordination of great swathes of information. So before entering into the creative part of the design process, I have always made sure that the information has been sorted, prioritised, and filed into my sub-conscious. Creativity works at its best when there is already a clear conceptual vision of where you want to go - the detail will automatically follow.So I can't help but carry this with me into songwriting. I like to make a few notes to myself regarding what I want to achieve, where I want to take it, etc.... When the lyric ideas eventually start to flow, I often end up with 4 to 5 times more material than I eventually use. The sub-conscious is a mysterious beast, but it's useful to let it work this way.But when it comes to music, I'm in a blindfolded 3-legged race with myself..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bee3 Posted August 10, 2012 Members Share Posted August 10, 2012 When the lyric ideas eventually start to flow, I often end up with 4 to 5 times more material than I eventually use. I wish I had this issue. Every word is a battle with me... probably why I usually only have 2 verses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members oldgitplayer Posted August 10, 2012 Members Share Posted August 10, 2012 I wish I had this issue. Every word is a battle with me... probably why I usually only have 2 verses. Which is why some of the great songs of the 20th Century have been collaborations that balance out strengths and weaknesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rickidoo Posted August 10, 2012 Members Share Posted August 10, 2012 For me it was the Chorus. To me it was about the human condition. I saw it as the moon was a witness to this guys life (good and bad). The verses set this up for me as the birds, cow and truck just plow on through life, just being what god or man intended, but humans struggle with meaning in everything.The Chorus kind of summed up , and came to terms with, the whole "human condition thing".I will add I'm not a huge fan for bluegrass or old thyme country music, so in my mind, I heard the chorus as folksy or more serious. What got me wondering, was if I could mold the melody to make the verses fit the chorus I heard in my head. After reading this, I went back and relistened, specifically for the chorus because of your comments above. I wanted to understand what you were thinking when you created it. What I was most struck with concerning the chorus, was how your chorus melody and performance put an entirely new spin on the meaning, feeling/emotion of the chorus lyrics. I had heard other feelings/emotions in the chorus of other songwriter's versions too, but in my mind your chorus was among the best because it not only spoke these emotions, but made me feel them as well. Let me ask you a question - when you looked at the chorus, did this meaning/feeling come to you quite instantly, or was there some mental analysis you to arrive at that? (and could you share that if so). I'd really like to know. Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stickboymusic Posted August 10, 2012 Author Members Share Posted August 10, 2012 I have updated the first post to include all entries so far.... this will last til the end of the month if anyone else wants to join in (I know I haven't yet!) Like the discussion that has come from this.... its a whole new perspective to focus on when we are all starting at the same gate. Good to see all our paths are near but running in different directions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Marshal Posted August 10, 2012 Members Share Posted August 10, 2012 . . . , I saw it as the moon was a witness to this guys life (good and bad). . . . , Oooh. Good one! And good catch Rick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chriscarnucci Posted August 10, 2012 Members Share Posted August 10, 2012 After reading this, I went back and relistened, specifically for the chorus because of your comments above. I wanted to understand what you were thinking when you created it.What I was most struck with concerning the chorus, was how your chorus melody and performance put an entirely new spin on the meaning, feeling/emotion of the chorus lyrics. I had heard other feelings/emotions in the chorus of other songwriter's versions too, but in my mind your chorus was among the best because it not only spoke these emotions, but made me feel them as well.Let me ask you a question - when you looked at the chorus, did this meaning/feeling come to you quite instantly, or was there some mental analysis you to arrive at that? (and could you share that if so). I'd really like to know.Rick First, I 'm glad you liked it. Thanks... When I first saw the lyrics I breezed past them (again not a big fan of bluegrass or old country). It was when I saw LCK's version that the chorus jumped out at me. The "Don't matter where, don't matter when" part and the 'Damn, there's that moon again" part made me say wait a minute....maybe there is more here then I thought. So I re-read the song (still decided to stick very closely to LCK's version but tweeked it just enough to slow the meter and fit the verses to the chorus I heard in my head.) So to answer what I think is your question....As soon as I saw LCK's version, the melody formed in my head. The repetative lines...dont matter where...dont matter when...set up the tension to be released by the...Damn theres that moon again. Which also key'd me in to the human condition, which I then realized, was in the song all along. I hope that answers your question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Marshal Posted August 16, 2012 Members Share Posted August 16, 2012 Nothing new to add. Just wanted to say I'm continuing to work on my version. I'll try to get it in performance mode and play it out maybe. I expect I'll take it to a monthly song critique circle I attend frequently. (I don't have anything else new to bring. ) I need to settle on the cadence of some of the lines. And I've got to come up with another instrumental variation between verses and choruses. Can't do the same thing 8 times. I find just having as few as 2 variations to alternate between keeps it much fresher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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