I was going to buy an ENGL Savage, until I played one

[Faust2016]

What a big fucking letdown .

 

I played one two years ago and have always wanted one since then, but couldn't find one and ended up with a Framus Dragon. I was not too happy with it back then, but I've grown to love more and more in time .

Then a few weeks back I saw an add for an ENGL Savage for reasonably cheap, so I contacted the guy and we met up. He had had the thing for 5 years or so without changing the tubes and the head was about ten years old, with the original preamp tubes and EH 6550's I think. I played it with a homemade 2x12 with G12T-75 speakers and my own ibby with a duncan distortion in the bridge and his SG with an EMG 81.

 

I FUCKING HATED IT

 

It was so harsh, fizzy, bright, cold, overly tight and overall just not very much to my liking. My current amp is so much thicker, warmer and more appealing to my ears. I couldn't believe it. I guess my idea of good tone just changed tremendously.

Oh and the EMG 81 made it all even worse. That thing made it sound even thinner.

[freehandarson]

when comparing a savage to a dragon, i would probably have the same opinion as you

[twistofcain]

Gotta mess around with the EQ man. They can be a bitch to dial in, but once you do, I find they sound great. Every one of the voicing switches makes a huge difference (Contour in is very cold, more emphasis on upper mids, contour out is warmer with emphasis on low mids. With rough/smooth in "rough" mode you get your regular tone, but on "smooth" it over saturates the amp and sounds like {censored} for rhythm, but great for leads. Depth switch gives you huge low end while engaged, sometimes too much low end so you might have to back the bass off a bit)

 

You really gotta mess with all the voicing options, and find an EQ setting that sits well with whatever voicing options you have going on. You also don't need a hell of a lot of gain for either of the last 2 gain channels... Gain at like 11:00 or 12:00 sounds like most amps with the gain at 11:00 or 12:00... AND an overdrive up front.

 

But yeah, don't judge the amp on first impressions. The guy I sold mine too hated it from his first encounter, but once I showed him mine and dialed in some settings that worked, he really liked it.

 

Took me a few days to like, I loved it. Not my thing at the moment, so I sold it, but if I were to go out and join a metal band that didn't have an "Orange Friendly" kinda sound... I'd definitely start saving up for another Savage.

 

To my ears, it was like bigger, clearer, less fizzy 5150, but with more low end, better lead tones, and a way better clean tone.

[sled]

you played it with his gtr, his homemade cab and speakers old tubes and you compared it to your setup. doesn't sound like a very good comparison to me.

[grunge782]

I can guarantee it was the homemade cab and the 75's. Play that thing through a Mills 4x12 with V30s or gk100's and you would have liked it much better.

 

I had the same exact problem with my 75's, it made even my Titan sound like {censored}. I put in some V30's and the amp shined.

 

Also those tubes were way overdue. That probably had a big effect as well, in fact even might have been the culprit. If I remember correctly, the Engls come stock with crappy tubes sometimes anyways. Throw in some JJ's or RFTS and that amp would have really shined.

 

And yeah, EMGs I have usually found to make your amp sound thinner... I am not an active guy.

[ROLDE DU'BAGE]

I play a Cobra, and was just checking out various Engl youtube vids last night to see which one I would ultimately want along side of it - going off of just the vids of course. My favorites were the Thunder and Steve Morse with the Savage and Blackmore very close in the running. I was honestly surprised at how well the Savage sounded with the downtuned brootz. Maybe that was your problem, not tuned low enough and the EMG 81. I really liked the Savage though, much more than the Powerball, Invader, Fireball, or even the SE. My biggest disappointment was in the Fireball 100. I am hoping its due to there not being enough quality vids/clips of it up yet. I did hear some potential in couple of them, but it had none of the warmth and girth of the Thunder, Savage, Morse, or Blackmore. And the Morse, what a killing machine that thing is! {censored}ing perfect brootz. And the Thunder? That one surprised me the most. I could put it next to my Cobra and be good to go (I am eating my words a bit from another thread in saying this). The same, or possibly even more so goes with the Morse. But at $700-$900 used, you can't fade the Thunder's value.

 

What I can't understand is all the Framus haters out there. The way I have my Cobra set up sounds better or MUCH better than ALL of the Engls, imo. People tend to think Framus Cobras or Dragons are not very versatile, and perhaps they aren't if you are looking to play jazz, blues, or jangly alternative (wtf you doing with a Cobra or Dragon then anyhow?). Yet the Cobra - and with the Dragon I assume the same - is extremely versatile in how you can tailor the tone with simple preamp and power tube changes - not to mention how different they sound from guitar to guitar, pickup to pickup, w/or w/out compression, etc.

[Father_William]

 

It was so harsh, fizzy, bright, cold, overly tight and overall just not very much to my liking. My current amp is so much thicker, warmer and more appealing to my ears. I couldn't believe it. I guess my idea of good tone just changed tremendously. Oh and the EMG 81 made it all even worse. That thing made it sound even thinner.

 

 

My thoughts exactly. Someone once posted it sounded like an MXR Distortion Plus plugged directly into a P.A., and that's what it sounds like to me.

[Killzone]

Yeah, most likely the old tubes were causing the harshness and if it was 10 years old, I dont think they they put noise gates in them that long ago. Its definatly not a harsh fizzy amp!!

 

 

All savage for rhythm guits in these videos....

 

 

[YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE]

 

[YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE]

 

[YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE]

[RussAnderson]

 

I play a Cobra, and was just checking out various Engl youtube vids last night to see which one I would ultimately want along side of it - going off of just the vids of course. My favorites were the Thunder and Steve Morse with the Savage and Blackmore very close in the running. I was honestly surprised at how well the Savage sounded with the downtuned brootz. Maybe that was your problem, not tuned low enough and the EMG 81. I really liked the Savage though, much more than the Powerball, Invader, Fireball, or even the SE. My biggest disappointment was in the Fireball 100. I am hoping its due to there not being enough quality vids/clips of it up yet. I did hear some potential in couple of them, but it had none of the warmth and girth of the Thunder, Savage, Morse, or Blackmore. And the Morse, what a killing machine that thing is! {censored}ing perfect brootz. And the Thunder? That one surprised me the most. I could put it next to my Cobra and be good to go (I am eating my words a bit from another thread in saying this). The same, or possibly even more so goes with the Morse. But at $700-$900 used, you can't fade the Thunder's value. What I can't understand is all the Framus haters out there. The way I have my Cobra set up sounds better or MUCH better than ALL of the Engls, imo. People tend to think Framus Cobras or Dragons are not very versatile, and perhaps they aren't if you are looking to play jazz, blues, or jangly alternative (wtf you doing with a Cobra or Dragon then anyhow?). Yet the Cobra - and with the Dragon I assume the same - is extremely versatile in how you can tailor the tone with simple preamp and power tube changes - not to mention how different they sound from guitar to guitar, pickup to pickup, w/or w/out compression, etc.

 

 

Have to agree yet to find a decent utube video of the newer fireball 100 head .I still went on and bought one and i'm glad i did because its a big step up from the older fireball 60 model inc some very useful features. Most importantly it sounds better than the older fireball 60 and has a way better lead ch now .Mid boost is really useful and of course the separate gain controls, switchable fxs loop and the noise gate works extremely well. For a simple high gain reasonable priced amp the fireball100 def fits into that category nicely. Very easy to dial in some decent tone and way better headroom this time around ,blackface looks deadly against the red glow of the 6l6's.

 

 

ps: can still use this amp at home because it still sounds very good at lower practice levels, very cool amp and highly recommended for the metal players .

[Wizard of Ozz]

What a big fucking letdown . I played one two years ago and have always wanted one since then, but couldn't find one and ended up with a Framus Dragon. I was not too happy with it back then, but I've grown to love more and more in time . Then a few weeks back I saw an add for an ENGL Savage for reasonably cheap, so I contacted the guy and we met up. He had had the thing for 5 years or so without changing the tubes and the head was about ten years old, with the original preamp tubes and EH 6550's I think. I played it with a homemade 2x12 with G12T-75 speakers and my own ibby with a duncan distortion in the bridge and his SG with an EMG 81. I FUCKING HATED IT It was so harsh, fizzy, bright, cold, overly tight and overall just not very much to my liking. My current amp is so much thicker, warmer and more appealing to my ears. I couldn't believe it. I guess my idea of good tone just changed tremendously. Oh and the EMG 81 made it all even worse. That thing made it sound even thinner.

 

Ughhh... since you played the Savage with 10 year old preamp & power tubes... thru some POS homemade cab... with GT75s... you still have no idea how good a new Savage sounds.

 

Your review = invalid

 

Also there have been at least 3 changes to the Savage circuit in the past few years, and the newer Savage 120s sound much better and far quieter than the original/earlier models.

 

:facepalm:

:facepalm:

[camer138]

as each day passes.. i miss my savage more and more.. but when my peters arrives this thirst for my old savage should be gone.

[Killzone]

Ughhh... since you played the Savage with 10 year old preamp & power tubes... thru some POS homemade cab... with GT75s... you still have no idea how good a new Savage sounds. Your review = invalid Also there have been at least 3 changes to the Savage circuit in the past few years, and the newer Savage 120s sound much better and far quieter than the original/earlier models. :facepalm: :facepalm:

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This!

[Hellaboogie]

Ughhh... since you played the Savage with 10 year old preamp & power tubes... thru some POS homemade cab... with GT75s... you still have no idea how good a new Savage sounds. Your review = invalid Also there have been at least 3 changes to the Savage circuit in the past few years, and the newer Savage 120s sound much better and far quieter than the original/earlier models. :facepalm: :facepalm:

 

PM'd

[magh8]

i wasnt aware the savage has been around 10 years and i'm with wiz on this one

[Eschatologist]

 

i wasnt aware the savage has been around 10 years and i'm with wiz on this one

 

 

Longer than that even, I think....when was its original release?

[Faust2016]

Hmm maybe you guys are right and it was the bad cab/old tube combination that made it sound crappy. I must say that it didn't even slightly compare to the sound I had in my head from my previous experience with the Savage, which was with the same guitar through an ENGL Pro cab with V30's or Greenbacks (I don't remember exactly).

 

@ twistofcain: The amp you describe in your last line sounds nothing like the amp I played, but sounds like an amp I would love to own

 

@ROLDE DU'BAGE: Framus amps are indeed very nice. I played a Cobra a few times too and absolutely loved it. I have been toying around with the idea of getting a Cobra sometime. It's like a more modern sounding Dragon with more versatility in the high gain compartiment.

 

@Wizard of Ozz: Interesting. I always got the impression that people liked the older ones better. Anyways do you know in what year approximately the changes occured?

[EdgeOfDarkness]

I liked the Savge SE we had at the ampfest, Vid of it in my thread.

[Faust2016]

 

I liked the Savge SE we had at the ampfest, Vid of it in my thread.

 

 

They're supposed to be pretty similar, but the Savage SE is running 6L6's right? And I liked the vid as well. What channel was that?

[EdgeOfDarkness]

 

They're supposed to be pretty similar, but the Savage SE is running 6L6's right? And I liked the vid as well. What channel was that?

 

 

Im not sure, You can ask Panzerdivision.

He had a big footboard with it and Im not sure what channel the had it on.

[panzerdivision]

I had it on the red channel Ch4 and Swampdonkey had it on CH3, oh and btw my eq and controls were set at high noon across the whole amp on every channel except the bass it was on 2 o'clock.

 

The Savage SE runs on 6l6's or EL34's (JJ 6l6's in mine) but I did have a Savage 120 and it was pretty close to how my SE sounds except it had a lil more punch from the 6550's.

[DEADBYDAWN]

I drove a 2010 vette with a blown motor and it had no ballz compared to my AMC Concord! WTF!!!

[Wizard of Ozz]

Hmm maybe you guys are right and it was the bad cab/old tube combination that made it sound crappy. I must say that it didn't even slightly compare to the sound I had in my head from my previous experience with the Savage, which was with the same guitar through an ENGL Pro cab with V30's or Greenbacks (I don't remember exactly). @ twistofcain: The amp you describe in your last line sounds nothing like the amp I played, but sounds like an amp I would love to own @ROLDE DU'BAGE: Framus amps are indeed very nice. I played a Cobra a few times too and absolutely loved it. I have been toying around with the idea of getting a Cobra sometime. It's like a more modern sounding Dragon with more versatility in the high gain compartiment. @Wizard of Ozz: Interesting. I always got the impression that people liked the older ones better. Anyways do you know in what year approximately the changes occured?

 

The first version had red light bulbs... not red leds... then sometimes after another circuit revision happened. On the latest models 2009+ there was another circuit change. No clue as to what years correspond to which models. Try to find a new one in a store and play it thru a decent cab before passing judgment. The newer models definitely sounded better (warmer) and much quieter.

[metalaxe]

 

It was so harsh, fizzy, bright, cold, overly tight

 

 

this describes the engl sound pretty well.

 

and the Savage is still the best Engl out there!

[Dr Wanker]

I never saw the appeal to the Savage, or the Powerball for that matter. Not my kind of tone, that's for sure.

Even my local Engl dealer says he sells the vast majority of his Engls over the net to people who don't seem to have ever heard one before. They've been out since at least the early 90s too.

[Tone_Master]

Have to agree yet to find a decent utube video of the newer fireball 100 head .I still went on and bought one and i'm glad i did because its a big step up from the older fireball 60 model inc some very useful features. Most importantly it sounds better than the older fireball 60 and has a way better lead ch now .Mid boost is really useful and of course the separate gain controls, switchable fxs loop and the noise gate works extremely well. For a simple high gain reasonable priced amp the fireball100 def fits into that category nicely. Very easy to dial in some decent tone and way better headroom this time around ,blackface looks deadly against the red glow of the 6l6's. ps: can still use this amp at home because it still sounds very good at lower practice levels, very cool amp and highly recommended for the metal players .

 

 

Ok I own the Cobra and the Fireball 100 and have played them both extensively. I also own a Diezel Einstein 100 a Dual Recto a Mark V, a Dual Caliber, a Peavey 5150 and a Koch Powertone (better than the Supernova in my opinion), and the Line 6 Vetta.

 

I have also owned in the past the ENGL Thunder the Screamer (would own again - great for what it is) the Savage (Killer however going to get the rare Savage SE now), the Powerball, the Orange Rockerverb (will own again best crunch tones in the world), the Mesa Express 5:50 (crap don't bother get the old DC or F series instead), the Koch Supernova (very good but prefer the Powertone), Peavey JSX, Peavey XXX, Hughes and Kettner WarpX (ok would own again), Hughes and Kettner Trilogy (crap), Hughes and Kettner Switchblade and the Coreblade (crap), Rivera Knucklehead (very good but the Dual Recto's still cut better) The Line 6 Spidervalve (great value for money).

 

Yes, I own or have owned all these amps stated and many more low wattage amps, combos preamps etc and probably a few other large heads I can not think of right now. My friends think I am an amp whore

 

The Cobra and the Fireball 100 are on par for the most brutal amps in the world (yet to try the Diezel Herbert though it could be the one exception).

 

The Fireball or any ENGL bar the Savage sound really good on low Volume but the Savage and the Cobra need to be opened up a bit more til they sound good but not as bad as a 5150 or Dual Recto.

 

The Fireball has heaps more sizzle to it and would be better for death metal or lead. It is still more of a rythum amp than a lead amp imho however the Cobra is a big fat cutting rythum amp.

 

The Cobra has more oomph heaps more oomph it has moves air more than any other amp I have owned! I love the feeling of standing in front of the speakers while playing it loud! It has a slight fizz but is nothing compared to the top end sizzle of the Fireball.

 

However the Fireball does lack the tight bottom end which the Cobra has but it is hard to tame the bass on the Cobra you can't have it maxed or it will just sound very loose and flubby on most settings Which is hard for me cause I always max the bass and the gain!

 

Ok so if you want bottom end brutality with a biz of fizz (good high gain fizz not nasty fizz) it will be the Cobra if you just want top end sizzle (extreme clear gain fizz) with a half decent bottom end go the Fireball.

 

Overall the Cobra is a little bit more brutal but harder to tame this beast. However it has many tonal possibilities the EQ knobs and presence knob etc do more on this amp than any amp I have ever owned so there are great tones in there you just have to be patient.

 

For clarity and no bs turn up and crank it tones the Fireball easily wins and sounds just as brutal everything the cobra can throw at it bar bottom end.

 

Unfortunately most the tones I like that I can get out of ithe Cobra are too dark or flubby and way too brutal to hear through the mix you would want to be the only guitarist if not the whole band LOL. So I can easily see why people think it is not that good but it certainly blows away all ENGL's bar the Savage, Savage SE and the SE.

 

Some prefer it over the Savage and the Dual Recto however I like them all just for different reasons.

 

If I had to chose one amp it would be very hard but it would probably be the Dual Recto as it sounds good with any guitar or tuning even 8 strings with Drop E which none of my other amps bar the Line 6 Vetta (digital no tubes) sound good one.

 

My fave 10 metal 50 watt or above amps would be:

1st any Diezel (bar the Schmidt),

2nd the ENGL Savage, Savage SE and SE (all on par for the best ENGL amps),

3rd the Framus Corba,

4th ENGL Fireball 100,

5th Koch Powertone or Supernova (both the same for brootz the Supernova just has heaps more setting you don't really need),

6th the Dual Recto,

7th the 5150/6505 (exactly the same amp),

8th the Mesa Mark V (not the most brut but very flexible and great for live)

9th Peavey Ultra Plus and JSX on par,

10th The Hughes and Kettner Triamp or WarpX.

 

Rock on!