OT: How long is long enough for unemployment benefits?

[Shask]

 

I'm not suggesting it can be done and keep your standard of living. But when it comes down to it you gotta be an adult and take responsibility for yourself. If it means giving up the car, the house, or anything else, well, do you survive, or starve? I mean, sure, nobody in the western world really wants to pool resources and have to have housemates (purely as an example) when you've had your own home for five, ten, twenty years even, but if it's what it takes to survive, then no I don't believe it's the government's job to protect people from having to make the

 

So now you assume people can just sell their cars and homes when nobody is selling anything? Who will buy anything when no one has any money?

 

Not to mention take children out of schools and wreck the future generations?

 

That is quite a fantasy you live in...

[Say Ocean]

who knows. Most of the people I see whine about "paying for people's free vacation", don't make as much as they lead you to believe. They're also parasitic drains on various other forms of social reform, but like to focus in on one single group that they feel they can talk down to. I've never been laid off or fired from a job. I've never received disability, unemployment, welfare, or any other form of income aside from collecting a salary for doing my job. However, I've seen too many good people in this economy suffer and end up collecting benefits because they simply cannot find work. These are people that planned, scrimped and saved for years, that simply were let go or laid off for various reasons. I know I've learned a valuable lesson, because I too used to complain and whine about unemployment. Then I woke the hell up and actually got my story straight. Take for instance a head of household, making $70k a year supporting a spouse and two children. This person gets laid off, and has to seek unemployment. Do you expect this person to stop looking for comparable jobs, so they can go flip burgers at Wendy's for $8/hour, part time? Sure they'll lose that uber sweet $400 a week unemployment check( ), so they can go flip burgers for $240 a week. In the mean time, they won't have time to search/apply for other jobs, they still can't pay their $1500/month mortgage, they don't have health insurance, etc. Oh?? But the wife can work too, so now she can go handle the fryer at $8/hour for 30 hours a week. Yeehaw, we're up to dang near $500 a week in income!! except, now they can add $800/month per child in childcare costs, they still have no insurance, they still need transportation to/from work... So now, instead of ~$1800 a month in unemployment, you've broken up a family, added another property to the Foreclosure mess, created 4 new Medicare users, they will now require welfare/WIC to survive, and... you have set this family up to never leave this financial situation again. Yet some loser making $30k a year as a single person with a 1 bedroom apartment will feel better knowing his hardly earned dollars aren't supporting the above family's "free vacation". Here's the lesson I had to learn. Everyone's variables are different, and you don't fully appreciate another man/woman's plight until you've walked in their shoes. Since that's all but impossible, it's easier to show compassion off the bat and not focus on trying to humble someone further than they already have been. Sometimes that means giving the benefit of the doubt to an "undeserving" person, but in the meantime compassion has been shown to the 9/10 people that would absolutely change their situation if they could. Life is not black and white, so answers to life's questions can't be black and white either. People that say otherwise, are sheltered and have a bit of growing up left to do.

 

One of the better posts I've seen lately. It's easy for people to get high and mighty on others because it's easy to lump people into groups like "lazy" and "leeches" than it is to consider the bigger picture.

[pioneerprogress]

So now you assume people can just sell their cars and homes when nobody is selling anything? Who will buy anything when no one has any money? Not to mention take children out of schools and wreck the future generations? That is quite a fantasy you live in...

 

 

No, i live in the depressingly vacant world known as taking responsibility.

i never suggested a person should take such drastic measures willy-nilly just because they had a bad month. And i never offered a suggestion that promised warm fuzzies.

youll also notice that i stated that i support a system of helping people who are in need, though i feel our current system to deal with this problem is broken.

i also feel that if we all got serious about this problem and could fund a solution without the government getting in the way, and if organizations like the church got serious about their place in society instead of having bake sales to send their kids to the skating rink and committee meetings to address landscaping, we could make some real progress.

hey, maybe if schools and universities taught information that was useful like how to balance a checkbook, to start with, instead of feel good bull{censored} and useless academia, and if brainless morons quit pimping our education system thoughtlessly without considering what kind of practical return on investment it provides before indoctrinating future generations about its infallibility, then we could have a market that is productive and creative enough to power through bumps in the road like what we are experiencing.

maybe if we quit being afraid of government andquit allowing them to run over us and permitting them to continue creating laws, policies, and precedents that only benefits insiders, we could prevent many of our problems.

 

None of that is happening.

So, here we are. People dont all have reliable sources of income.

perhaps its time to get off our lazy, entitled asses and change the way we do things.

help those in need. I seriously support that.

But we have grown into a mindset that we somehow inherently DESERVE certain things.

i am simply suggesting that after an amount of time that its clear things arent going to change, that we ask that person or family to make some adjustments so they can lift themselves out of a financial pit. Its not going to be comfortable, but who are we to demand that we get exactly what we want out of the world? I dont want a single person to have to go through what so many have, but when the old way doesnt work its time to make a change.

i have unfortunately had to make tough decisions.

ive been in foreclosure, and the retarded part of it is it was due to my own stupidity, not even a real financial crisis. Facing reality can make you take stock of your life and force some change. But because of that, when the time came that i was out of work and no opportunities were presenting themselves, i was mentally equipped to do whatever it took to make it. And i am not claiming to know exactly what its like for each and every person. That would be arrogant of me.

 

Maybe i am living in a twisted fantasy but i dont see how we can keep reacting to age old problems witg tired old answers and expect we will be better for it.

 

/book.

[grumphh]

.

This post has just convinced me that even people who actually like JCM900's can actually be decent human beings

[charveldan]

MSNBC just announced unemployment benefits will be extended for 13 more months in exchange for the the Bush tax cuts being extended as well.

[rambleon223]

Damn....that's pretty much it in a nutshell. Great post!

/thread?

who knows. Most of the people I see whine about "paying for people's free vacation", don't make as much as they lead you to believe. They're also parasitic drains on various other forms of social reform, but like to focus in on one single group that they feel they can talk down to. I've never been laid off or fired from a job. I've never received disability, unemployment, welfare, or any other form of income aside from collecting a salary for doing my job. However, I've seen too many good people in this economy suffer and end up collecting benefits because they simply cannot find work. These are people that planned, scrimped and saved for years, that simply were let go or laid off for various reasons. I know I've learned a valuable lesson, because I too used to complain and whine about unemployment. Then I woke the hell up and actually got my story straight. Take for instance a head of household, making $70k a year supporting a spouse and two children. This person gets laid off, and has to seek unemployment. Do you expect this person to stop looking for comparable jobs, so they can go flip burgers at Wendy's for $8/hour, part time? Sure they'll lose that uber sweet $400 a week unemployment check( ), so they can go flip burgers for $240 a week. In the mean time, they won't have time to search/apply for other jobs, they still can't pay their $1500/month mortgage, they don't have health insurance, etc. Oh?? But the wife can work too, so now she can go handle the fryer at $8/hour for 30 hours a week. Yeehaw, we're up to dang near $500 a week in income!! except, now they can add $800/month per child in childcare costs, they still have no insurance, they still need transportation to/from work... So now, instead of ~$1800 a month in unemployment, you've broken up a family, added another property to the Foreclosure mess, created 4 new Medicare users, they will now require welfare/WIC to survive, and... you have set this family up to never leave this financial situation again. Yet some loser making $30k a year as a single person with a 1 bedroom apartment will feel better knowing his hardly earned dollars aren't supporting the above family's "free vacation". Here's the lesson I had to learn. Everyone's variables are different, and you don't fully appreciate another man/woman's plight until you've walked in their shoes. Since that's all but impossible, it's easier to show compassion off the bat and not focus on trying to humble someone further than they already have been. Sometimes that means giving the benefit of the doubt to an "undeserving" person, but in the meantime compassion has been shown to the 9/10 people that would absolutely change their situation if they could. Life is not black and white, so answers to life's questions can't be black and white either. People that say otherwise, are sheltered and have a bit of growing up left to do.

[C-4]

3 months. Anything over that is getting a paid vacation.

 

 

Definitely.

 

What type of skills will be on a resume after collecting unemployment for 2 plus years.

 

Sorry, but there are in fact jobs to be had even though it might be below what one's qualifications are.

 

Those who have stopped considering any work are just becoming part of the serf nation.

[charveldan]

Unless your Bill Gates or Warren Buffet, anyone who thinks theere's no way they can be outta work or face economic catastrophe is in delusional.

[HKSblade1]

IDK, but I think to a degree perspectives given are all even. What most have said is only pointing out the propensity to become even more dependent, and not seeking jobs or having to relocate yada yada in whatever circumstances, so long as these benefits are extended to them.

 

I don't think or don't read anyone as coming off as being indecent to others falling on tougher times. There is much truth with many you have to draw the line somewhere.

 

My lifestyle was dramatically shifted when I lost my job Jan 09. My wife's job was also change for her and so was a new environment and pulling our kids from a high school they should have graduated from in a couple years. All those things factored into our decisions that were really difficult. We did what was necessary.

 

There is imo as much truth to those that make every attempt to provide for themselves and their families and those that require the UE to get a small break. There is also as much truth that many cheat, and do quite the opposite of work to only receive a handout and have maintained or learned to maintain that as a lifestyle. I knew many former co workers that went working on the side for loads of cash while receiving UE benefits.

 

I don't think anyone means to be judgmental, but its more of showing the rights and wrongs on either side of the UE issue.

 

Many would find a wallet and take the money, not as many these days are likely to return the wallet and its contents to the rightful owner.

[Mr. Brady]

who knows. Most of the people I see whine about "paying for people's free vacation", don't make as much as they lead you to believe. They're also parasitic drains on various other forms of social reform, but like to focus in on one single group that they feel they can talk down to. I've never been laid off or fired from a job. I've never received disability, unemployment, welfare, or any other form of income aside from collecting a salary for doing my job. However, I've seen too many good people in this economy suffer and end up collecting benefits because they simply cannot find work. These are people that planned, scrimped and saved for years, that simply were let go or laid off for various reasons. I know I've learned a valuable lesson, because I too used to complain and whine about unemployment. Then I woke the hell up and actually got my story straight. Take for instance a head of household, making $70k a year supporting a spouse and two children. This person gets laid off, and has to seek unemployment. Do you expect this person to stop looking for comparable jobs, so they can go flip burgers at Wendy's for $8/hour, part time? Sure they'll lose that uber sweet $400 a week unemployment check( ), so they can go flip burgers for $240 a week. In the mean time, they won't have time to search/apply for other jobs, they still can't pay their $1500/month mortgage, they don't have health insurance, etc. Oh?? But the wife can work too, so now she can go handle the fryer at $8/hour for 30 hours a week. Yeehaw, we're up to dang near $500 a week in income!! except, now they can add $800/month per child in childcare costs, they still have no insurance, they still need transportation to/from work... So now, instead of ~$1800 a month in unemployment, you've broken up a family, added another property to the Foreclosure mess, created 4 new Medicare users, they will now require welfare/WIC to survive, and... you have set this family up to never leave this financial situation again. Yet some loser making $30k a year as a single person with a 1 bedroom apartment will feel better knowing his hardly earned dollars aren't supporting the above family's "free vacation". Here's the lesson I had to learn. Everyone's variables are different, and you don't fully appreciate another man/woman's plight until you've walked in their shoes. Since that's all but impossible, it's easier to show compassion off the bat and not focus on trying to humble someone further than they already have been. Sometimes that means giving the benefit of the doubt to an "undeserving" person, but in the meantime compassion has been shown to the 9/10 people that would absolutely change their situation if they could. Life is not black and white, so answers to life's questions can't be black and white either. People that say otherwise, are sheltered and have a bit of growing up left to do.

Stop making posts like this or you'll lose your asshole troll status.

[JBecker]

 

Here's the lesson I had to learn. Everyone's variables are different, and you don't fully appreciate another man/woman's plight until you've walked in their shoes. Since that's all but impossible, it's easier to show compassion off the bat and not focus on trying to humble someone further than they already have been. Sometimes that means giving the benefit of the doubt to an "undeserving" person, but in the meantime compassion has been shown to the 9/10 people that would absolutely change their situation if they could. Life is not black and white, so answers to life's questions can't be black and white either. People that say otherwise, are sheltered and have a bit of growing up left to do.

 

 

The great mystery is how the people who believe that the government should not be involved in your life actually believe we can make policy on the basis of our clear, unequivocal ability to make moral and ethical judgment about all people in all situations with a few simple rules.

 

Some of us realize that's hard and decide the best line is to {censored} over everyone. Some of us realize that and think that stability and compassion are worth a small amount of dead weight. Some of us are too {censored}ing stupid to realize that there is no single answer or simple set of rules that can be held on to regardless of changing information and a huge variation of what's actually happening out there.

[pioneerprogress]

there is no single answer or simple set of rules that can be held on to regardless of changing information and a huge variation of what's actually happening out there.

 

bingo!

And no matter what we try, it's never going to be perfect. There will always be worthy people being left out in the cold, and others who find ways to cheat the system.

But, there has to be a line in the sand somewhere, even as tough as it is to draw it.

 

Also, +1 to totally not expecting a sincere response from RB.

[mdog114]

With a 13 month extension, that put us right back at Christmas 2011. At which point, they'll be extended again.

 

Pathetic

[pioneerprogress]

With a 13 month extension, that put us right back at Christmas 2011. At which point, they'll be extended again. Pathetic

 

hold on a sec...

are you actually suggesting there would be political reasons behind that deadline date?

[Viesczy]

Definitely. What type of skills will be on a resume after collecting unemployment for 2 plus years. Sorry, but there are in fact jobs to be had even though it might be below what one's qualifications are. Those who have stopped considering any work are just becoming part of the serf nation.

So the 5m lost compared to 1m gained... there are jobs to be had? Really? With that logic, let's get to tackling that deficit! Will be gone by Friday.

As I stated earlier, if the government can pony over loads of cash for everything in their pet projects, project overruns on defense contracts, socialize the losses of big corporations, and not account for billions in war spending, how is it that helping the destitute little guy & gal a bad thing?

Would you seriously say to your neighbor, "sorry you're sunk" but pay Boeing twice their contract rate for their latest project because they had "cost overruns"? (Just using the name Boeing not a project) You'd not tell that corporation to figure it out to fulfill their contract or lose all the money, but you'd tell your neighbor "too bad"?

Really?

Derek

[pioneerprogress]

So the 5m lost compared to 1m gained... there are jobs to be had? Really? With that logic, let's get to tackling that deficit! Will be gone by Friday. As I stated earlier, if the government can pony over loads of cash for everything in their pet projects, project overruns on defense contracts, socialize the losses of big corporations, and not account for billions in war spending, how is it that helping the destitute little guy & gal a bad thing? Would you seriously say to your neighbor, "sorry you're sunk" but pay Boeing twice their contract rate for their latest project because they had "cost overruns"? (Just using the name Boeing not a project) You'd not tell that corporation to figure it out to fulfill their contract or lose all the money, but you'd tell your neighbor "too bad"? Really? Derek

 

I'd have a hard time believing that anyone who had a clue who suggests limiting unemployment also believes that corporate bailouts and federal waste spending are good ideas.

[HKSblade1]

So the 5m lost compared to 1m gained... there are jobs to be had? Really? With that logic, let's get to tackling that deficit! Will be gone by Friday. As I stated earlier, if the government can pony over loads of cash for everything in their pet projects, project overruns on defense contracts, socialize the losses of big corporations, and not account for billions in war spending, how is it that helping the destitute little guy & gal a bad thing? Would you seriously say to your neighbor, "sorry you're sunk" but pay Boeing twice their contract rate for their latest project because they had "cost overruns"? (Just using the name Boeing not a project) You'd not tell that corporation to figure it out to fulfill their contract or lose all the money, but you'd tell your neighbor "too bad"? Really? Derek

Sorry guys but the problem comes from the average citizen being complacent about what goes on in DC. All these appropriations, pet projects and bull{censored} like the bailouts were no interest to most (98%) of the public, so their representatives did what they wanted to do! The whole crisis thing was a sham. Citibank, BOA etc gets free money yet refused to reduce the rate of interest they collect from "people in need".. "those that lost their jobs".. etc etc. Here's free money from the public! Now jack those interest rates to 32% on the people's credit cards! Would have been cool to see them fail, then nobody would have had to pay their credit debts! Bail out the people that the govt inaction forced them to pay ludicrous credit fees! Ohh no, that can't happen. {censored} you DC!

If Boeing bids a contract it should be final. Double and triple the costs in over runs and appropriating more money is total {censored}ing bull{censored}. They do it because our representatives all have pet projects and those things are bargaining chips they call cash in. Goldman was the ones behind the whole {censored}ing market crash and we bailed their asses out. Bail outs imo were a bad idea. Greed after greed after greed and it all went global!

What was worse was letting these {censored}ing banks do what they wanted... there was no account to the money they received or how they spent it. Same with the stimulus. {censored} those banks in teh neck! Obama was supposed to save us all from this and make those people accountable??? HAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAAAA what a joke! Too many long term incumbents with ties to every {censored}ing scam wouldn't let that happen. We keep re-electing incumbents so we fail ourselves and get more of the same!

I feel the same about this UE and other benefit handouts. Anyone receiving them should at least give something of their time back. Set up a system that requires those on benefits like welfare or UE to at least do something for their community. There are teachers collecting, factory workers, road workers, construction workers, etc. You mean to tell me that their states can't find anything for them to do????

[syscrusher]

 

Sorry guys but the problem comes from the average citizen being complacent about what goes on in DC. All these appropriations, pet projects and bull{censored} like the bailouts were no interest to most (98%) of the public, so their representatives did what they wanted to do! The whole crisis thing was a sham. Citibank, BOA etc gets free money yet refused to reduce the rate of interest they collect from "people in need".. "those that lost their jobs".. etc etc. Here's free money from the public! Now jack those interest rates to 32% on the people's credit cards! Would have been cool to see them fail, then nobody would have had to pay their credit debts! Bail out the people that the govt inaction forced them to pay ludicrous credit fees! Ohh no, that can't happen. {censored} you DC! If Boeing bids a contract it should be final. Double and triple the costs in over runs and appropriating more money is total {censored}ing bull{censored}. They do it because our representatives all have pet projects and those things are bargaining chips they call cash in. Goldman was the ones behind the whole {censored}ing market crash and we bailed their asses out. Bail outs imo were a bad idea. Greed after greed after greed and it all went global! What was worse was letting these {censored}ing banks do what they wanted... there was no account to the money they received or how they spent it. Same with the stimulus. {censored} those banks in teh neck! Obama was supposed to save us all from this and make those people accountable??? HAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAAAA what a joke! Too many long term incumbents with ties to every {censored}ing scam wouldn't let that happen. We keep re-electing incumbents so we fail ourselves and get more of the same! I feel the same about this UE and other benefit handouts. Anyone receiving them should at least give something of their time back. Set up a system that requires those on benefits like welfare or UE to at least do something for their community. There are teachers collecting, factory workers, road workers, construction workers, etc. You mean to tell me that their states can't find anything for them to do????

 

 

I actually share your sentiments about it. I would of liked the state to put me to work when I claimed because it would gave me a new experience. But at the same time, they already pay people good money to do the work of the state. I don't think that would of worked out to well. I don't feel good about paying a teacher minimum wage, you get what you pay for. Though, I know some teachers hardly deserve that.

[ken361]

think there adding on another 13 months on top of 99, I been off 2 yrs now in michigan, were we lost alot of manufacturing jobs.

[JBecker]

think there adding on another 13 months on top of 99, I been off 2 yrs now in michigan, were we lost alot of manufacturing jobs.

 

 

One thing I gotta ask...

 

Have you considered relocating? Detroit is never going to replace those jobs... or at least not in your lifetime/career-time. And if they do, they're unlikely to be in manufacturing.

[ken361]

yeah checking into massage therapy, seems to growing pretty fast here. Plus I'm into fitness/weight lifting

[Critical Ninja]

You should see all the resumes we get when we decide to hire a new class of plant operators...you think a lot of people apply for a $10/hr job, you should see it when you're paying $35+/hr. I can guarantee though, no matter how qualified you are, if we see on your resume or hear in your interview that you haven't worked at all in the past 2 years without a damn good reason...you are not going to get hired, because our Site VP will think you're lazy and have zero initiative.

[Critical Ninja]

The max limit on UE is still 99 weeks, no one is going to get more than that...the "new" extended benefits are for those who are past their 26 week point but not yet to their 99 week point (depending on the state they live in, some states don't qualify for the super-extended UE benefits).

[HKSblade1]

You should see all the resumes we get when we decide to hire a new class of plant operators...you think a lot of people apply for a $10/hr job, you should see it when you're paying $35+/hr. I can guarantee though, no matter how qualified you are, if we see on your resume or hear in your interview that you haven't worked at all in the past 2 years without a damn good reason...you are not going to get hired, because our Site VP will think you're lazy and have zero initiative.

You got that right!! It's not a prejudicial thing companies have against people in certain circumstances, but since they have the ability to dismiss those applicants that have not worked in any capacity for any long term, you bet your ass you could be overlooked even if you qualify. You still could come off to them as "not willing" to work.

[mfergel]

I have mixed feelings about this especially since I just got laid off last week after 12 years. I think I'll be able to find another job but my concern is making what I was making. I'm a single parent and have my daughter 50% of the time. I live by myself so I pay all my own bills in addition to child support. I actually worry about losing the house if I can't get a job making what I was. I'll probably have to look into a roommate. That concerns me a bit as I have to worry about the safety of my child and worry about coming home and finding my guitars/music collection gone. I'll do what I have to in order to make ends meet but I worry about having to give up time with my daughter and then because of that, having to pay even more in child support if I decrease the amount of time I have my daughter. Sure, just like food stamps, etc. I've seen a lot of people in my life take advantage of the system. There really is an issue though of not only not enough jobs but also not enough high paying jobs. There are a lot of people out there that are already UNDERemployed. Going back to school isn't an option for everyone and ask a lot of graduating students how they feel about the job market.