There really needs to be an Axe-FX Lite

[iff]

if i remember correctly there releasing a unit that has just the effects sometime this year

 

I think I remember seeing that one time...I feel like it was a TC G-System kind of thing.

[DeadNight Warrior]

for people like me who love there amp and cab setup right now a effects model would be perfect, especially if it could do channel switching on your amp as well!

 

The problem with stuff like switching is that everyone's requirements are different. Some people won't want it at all, some people will want it but the unit won't handle enough switching for it to be really useful, others might have gear they want switching for but those particular units can't be done by the Axe-whatever coz it's a bit odd, or whatever. Personally I think stuff like that is best left out, for the customer to buy whatever suits them and their gear the best. For example my old Quad preamp, from memory, had eight things to switch in all. Two channels with two modes each, two graphic EQs, reverb on each channel. Ok, so the reverb on those things is useless, so we'll say 6 all up. But when I went to order an Axess switcher for it, Mario told me you can't use them with the Quad pre and gave me some suggestions for what else I could try.

 

[xautumnsashesx]

 

Lots of good points already about how/why it wouldn't cost much less at all when cutting features. OP, you could also look at it like this. Just like others have said, you'd have to start cutting components and operating power to cut features and cost, and then it wouldn't be nearly the same product. Kind of like a Bogner Alchemist isn't really 'almost' like one of Reinhold's high priced Bogners. I'm not sure how many Alchemists are flying off the sales floors, but I imagine it isn't a ton, and those peeps probably don't think they got a "stripped down" high quality Bogner at a bargain price.

 

 

Honestly, I wasn't sure if it would really be a reality, I was just thinking out loud. Although, most of the comments have been hearsay and conjecture at best. It seems people assume the technology is crazy expensive, but no one really has any direct experience. Also, it is in Cliff's/Fractal's interest to maximize profits, because when the day ends it's always going to be about money first and foremost.

[teemuk]

He should just sell a stripped version with the same price as the ULTRA. That'd show the cheapskates.

 

Or better yet: Increase the price because there's now the added feature of "simplicity". You could call it the AXE-FX SIMPLE, for those who don't need any any extra.

 

...Because if the simplicity is really so important then I believe the price would be correct. It's a product you need, either pay or be without it. After all, there's really no competitors to it in the market, right...?

 

[Cougar Hunter]

iAxe.

[mooktank]

 

iAxe.

 

 

I would love if they made a touchscreen controller that made it possible to edit controls as quickly as on a conventional amp/pedal. I guess it doesn't need to be touchscreen, but it would probably be easier than mounting a billion knobs on some midi controller.

[Caulk Rocket]

AMT MOFO!

[DeadNight Warrior]

Honestly, I wasn't sure if it would really be a reality, I was just thinking out loud. Although, most of the comments have been hearsay and conjecture at best. It seems people assume the technology is crazy expensive, but no one really has any direct experience. Also, it is in Cliff's/Fractal's interest to maximize profits, because when the day ends it's always going to be about money first and foremost.

 

Actually, it's not just speculation, Cliff has commented on things like this before. And plenty of people, myself included, have seen inside their Axe-FXs. I know when I looked in mine I didn't see any hint of cost cutting in the components (and while I'm in a different industry now, I used to do procurement in electronics), and the processor and converters alone would be worth a fair bit.

 

And yes, it is in their interest to maximise profits, but it's not the only thing to consider. If that was the case, they'd be having the Axe-FX manufactured in China for a fraction of what it would be costing them to keep production local. Cliff has also at this point basically built Fractal Audio up to be the top end of the guitar processor world, and I don't imagine he has any plans to cheapen that with a "stripped down" model if it involves making compromises.

 

You can't just assume it would be better for them to expand their product line. Maybe having a stripped down model (assuming it were even feasible) would eat into Standard sales too much. Maybe they're not ready yet to deal with having a cheaper, potentially much faster moving product, especially considering they can barely keep up with their flagship $2k unit as it is. And it not only affects them in terms of keeping up stock, but it also means stepping up sales and support and whatnot.

 

Same thing with people whingeing about having to go through distributors for sales outside of the US. What, are FAS supposed to just set up offices worldwide? Or maybe they'll just handle everything out of their US office; all the sales, all the enquiries, all the logistics, all the support, etc. It's easy to just assume things, but there are always a lot of factors to consider. They're a relatively small company, and attempts at rapid expansion are often misguided and outside of the company's means (which of course doesn't end well). If FAS want to move forward in a more gradual fashion, I'd be inclined to think it's the more sensible thing to do, especially seeing as the economy is supposedly falling apart.

[grunge782]

This can't hold up forever. You already have guys releasing good VSTs for free like LePoulin. With the way processors are getting better and better in computers its only a matter of time before someone else comes along and makes something on par to the axe or even better at a more affordable price. It'll probably be a couple of years still before that happens, but it will.

 

Cliff made a great product and doesn't want to release something subpar. He also wants to make money and knows how guitarists think. I guarantee if he sold the same exact product for 500 dollars people would say it sounds like crap.

 

I really don't think the components cost him nearly as much as Cliff makes them out to cost (especially when he buys in bulk), but they still are top notch components.

 

Just keep your eyes out on the modeler market, it will come eventually. Just don't expect Line 6 to do it .

[tech21man]

 

The problem is that one of the keys to the Axe is the bitchin' DSP which adds a *ton* to the final cost of the unit (this info is from Cliff/Fractal). If those awesome models' minimal CPU requirement cannot be met by a cheaper CPU that the code can be easily ported to there's no way to mitigate that cost and still meet the existing quality standard. Also, the rest of the Axe's hardware is pretty premium stuff which comes into play in not only the cost but the sound of the unit. So, if none of the stuff they could cut provides a significant savings it's just not profitable for the manufacturer. So, basically, quality costs. Go figure. That thing is a beast and a hellacious value as is, so man up and save some money for it. We're just conditioned to prices on technology dropping like a rock these days.

 

 

You really think in the digital world that what this guy uses is expensive? For what he charges it should have a coffee machine and a colour 5 inch LCD to let you configure it easily...Tell you what. If he was dedicated to buy in much more bigger quantities and reduce labour in another country he could make it far less expensive. If he expanded the franchise he would earn far more money. Maybe he'd rename the company to line7 or something.

 

 

By the way, older pc's than i5 run revalver just fine or LePou plugins with multiple I.R.. And revalver is far far more complex than axe-fx. I don't believe in any way that the axe-fx is as powerfull. Yes it is dedicated hardware but that is about it.

 

It is like saying an xbox360 {censored}s all over PCs nowadays. It doesn't, it was pretty cutting edge in some things when it came out but that is just about it. Its architecture has some advantages but time passes by.

 

 

Same and worse for the axe-fx. By the way it only reminds me of apple. Egotist dude keeps its hardware like a holy grail without giving the people what they really need. I guess he protects his work. Let him be happy in his forum...

 

 

Axe-fx "lite" with a decent interface for gigging is something everybody seem to want, as is the pc software. What is the point of the axe-fx anyway if it can't become available in a better price and far more functional over time?

 

 

Cork sniffer afficionados who don't gig it and can afford it easily already usually have friedmans bogner diezels or whatever...

 

 

I guess if it was of good value it would be a pod after all...

[tech21man]

This can't hold up forever. You already have guys releasing good VSTs for free like LePoulin. With the way processors are getting better and better in computers its only a matter of time before someone else comes along and makes something on par to the axe or even better at a more affordable price. It'll probably be a couple of years still before that happens, but it will. Cliff made a great product and doesn't want to release something subpar. He also wants to make money and knows how guitarists think. I guarantee if he sold the same exact product for 500 dollars people would say it sounds like crap. I really don't think the components cost him nearly as much as Cliff makes them out to cost (especially when he buys in bulk), but they still are top notch components. Just keep your eyes out on the modeler market, it will come eventually. Just don't expect Line 6 to do it .

 

I find it impossible to comprehend that he cannot maintain a high quality product with overseas production and sourcing of the materials. After all, it is digital through and through. He doesn't need any top notch family bussiness to wind transformers for him in prague or something as a friend of mine does for example.

 

But I guess this would take "maximising" the profits out of the question.

 

Maybe he thinks he is on top of his game and wants to capitilize on it.

[MadKeithV]

 

I really don't think the components cost him nearly as much as Cliff makes them out to cost (especially when he buys in bulk), but they still are top notch components.

 

 

The TigerSHARC DSP processor alone, even the lowest-end one, is over $250 in quantities over 1000. Multiply that by about 4 for the total platform to run it on. Then add labor and profit.

I was like you, thinking that Cliff was full of it, until I did the research and the math :-). FWIW, Line6 is apparently still using plain SHARC processors, and from what I can find those are under

[grunge782]

 

The TigerSHARC DSP processor alone, even the lowest-end one, is over $250 in quantities over 1000. Multiply that by about 4 for the total platform to run it on. Then add labor and profit. I was like you, thinking that Cliff was full of it, until I did the research and the math :-). FWIW, Line6 is apparently still using plain SHARC processors, and from what I can find those are under

[Neilrocks25]

Font just think processors if you want to argue about it, thats like a monkey arguing shakespear.

Think as well A/D D/A converters then think about the inputs used the rest of the components and even the casing, then think about design and programming hours.

 

It all mounts up, another way to look at it, look at say Cubase 6 the cost of that compared to nuendo, they cost alot befre the hardware costs. Then look at the cost of a business such as advertising revenue. It's not cheap I know that for a fact.

 

Read about this stuff then get back to us.

 

Also remember fractical is still a fairly small company so buying discounts will be alot less than bigger companies.

[MadKeithV]

 

They still have the same guys working there who made their earlier products. They need new ears, especially for hi-gain IMO.

 

 

I thought the guy(s) that worked on the Vetta (and thus Vetta2 and HD147) actually left line6 a few years ago to start a pedal company, but I can't find a reference to that anymore.

[grunge782]

 

I thought the guy(s) that worked on the Vetta (and thus Vetta2 and HD147) actually left line6 a few years ago to start a pedal company, but I can't find a reference to that anymore.

 

 

Some of the guys who worked on the HD line had been there a while. I know the guy heading the project had been there for almost 10 years, at least according to the interview.

 

I think it shows with the HD's high gain models, they have that same super overscooped compressed tone with the fizz. They did great on some of the lower gain models like the Dr. Z, but you could tell they made the same mistake AGAIN with the high gain. They really need somebody new there who actually knows what GOOD metal tone sounds like, not generic nu metalz.

[MadKeithV]

Some of the guys who worked on the HD line had been there a while. I know the guy heading the project had been there for almost 10 years, at least according to the interview. I think it shows with the HD's high gain models, they have that same super overscooped compressed tone with the fizz. They did great on some of the lower gain models like the Dr. Z, but you could tell they made the same mistake AGAIN with the high gain. They really need somebody new there who actually knows what GOOD metal tone sounds like, not generic nu metalz.

 

After the latest update I think the mid-frequency response of the Bogner Uber and Engl Fireball models are okay, even getting to the fat side. The HD500's still seriously lacking in mojo for me though, and I actually think that though the "sound" of the bogner has improved, it's lost the mojo it had. However, I'm starting to suspect my music room acoustics are part of the problem - next step is a bunch of fiberglass bass traps in the corner before I allow any other GAS to ruin my bank account

[DeadNight Warrior]

And revalver is far far more complex than axe-fx.

Are you just making this up, or do you actually have some kind of insider knowledge as to how the Axe's algorithms work?

[cavemanic]

on all the money I've blown on {censored}, $2000 was a steal.....

put the axe-fx in a small rack and an FCB and you are good to go....you may never need anything again

[biggness]

Some inside information on the effects only unit........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... .