Members diocide Posted June 21, 2012 Members Share Posted June 21, 2012 I have been there. I went to the main site, in Oscwiecim. My family is all from Poland. Both my parent were born in the 40's right after WWII ended. My father's family have live just outside Krakow for a couple hundred years, and on one of my trips to visit my family, I convinced my mom and cousin to come with me (my sister wanted no part of it). It was a an experience, to say the least. The main camp is Oswiecim is largely intact. Most of the long shed type buildings which housed prisoners are all still there, some left intact from the war, while others have been converted to mini museums, specific to what the different nationalities, countries and or religions went through at the camp. Some of the most disturbing stuff are the personal affects of many of the prisoners. There's a hall with luggage, still marked with peoples names and addresses. There's many things like piles of eyeglasses and prayer shawls. That kind of stuff definitely hit home and made it "real" to me... Also, the starvation cells, as well as the "Wall of Death" were something that I'll never forget. I'll see if I can dig up some pictures from when I went. I didn't take many, but I know I still have them. I also have the guide books you can buy in one of the halls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Slaymoar Posted June 21, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 21, 2012 I have been there. I went to the main site, in Oscwiecim. My family is all from Poland. Both my parent were born in the 40's right after WWII ended. My father's family have live just outside Krakow for a couple hundred years, and on one of my trips to visit my family, I convinced my mom and cousin to come with me (my sister wanted no part of it). It was a an experience, to say the least. The main camp is Oswiecim is largely intact. Most of the long shed type buildings which housed prisoners are all still there, some left intact from the war, while others have been converted to mini museums, specific to what the different nationalities, countries and or religions went through at the camp.Some of the most disturbing stuff are the personal affects of many of the prisoners. There's a hall with luggage, still marked with peoples names and addresses. There's many things like piles of eyeglasses and prayer shawls. That kind of stuff definitely hit home and made it "real" to me... Also, the starvation cells, as well as the "Wall of Death" were something that I'll never forget.I'll see if I can dig up some pictures from when I went. I didn't take many, but I know I still have them. I also have the guide books you can buy in one of the halls. Wow... that's messed up man. The names and addresses just put things in perspective. Pictures would be welcome.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JerEvil Posted June 21, 2012 Members Share Posted June 21, 2012 Would you share those afterwards? Yes. I am going to have them transcribed as some of it will be in Ukrainian. She hops from English to Ukrainian a lot in conversations and my Ukrainian is rusty at best. At least my mom is there as well and is fluent. I want to try to get it published as a book. Her life was incredible, IMHO and she just has SO many stories that it would be a shame for them to die with her. She is getting quite old and the health isn't what it used to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wok Posted June 21, 2012 Members Share Posted June 21, 2012 I think it's essential that we remember that the nazis were human. It's all too easy to see them as monsters, while they are a stark reminder that humans are capable of incredible cruelty and inhumanity. People are herd animals that crave a higher authority, one that takes away insecurity and responsibility. Most nazis were ordinary people like you and me that nust did what they were told without asking. That's the shocking part Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ron Burgandy Posted June 21, 2012 Members Share Posted June 21, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Slaymoar Posted June 21, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 21, 2012 I think it's essential that we remember that the nazis were human. It's all too easy to see them as monsters, while they are a stark reminder that humans are capable of incredible cruelty and inhumanity. People are herd animals that crave a higher authority, one that takes away insecurity and responsibility. Most nazis were ordinary people like you and me that nust did what they were told without asking. That's the shocking part Of course.. Do as you are told, or join them. Who wants to join that? We cannot judge.. Some Nazis were simply Nazis because the alternative was right in front of them. All of them knew it was wrong, and I honestly think most of them felt horrible about it, and even probably died inside every day. Many accounts of Nazis commiting suicide, vomiting during atrocities etc.. Unless you have a mental issue (psycho, socio), nobody wants to see someone killed. Especially in the ways it happened there. I don't think anyone was proud to push people in those gas chamber entrances. Or to carry dead bodies to teh crematoriums. I don't think any sane person could ever survive after something like this.. kids, babies.. {censored} that {censored}. There are many stories supported by holocaust survivors that some of the Nazis actually helped them and tried to save some lives. But the only people that really could do anything eventually did.. it just took way too long. If it weren't for D-Day, those camps would have had many more one way tickets. I think what prevailed in the death camps, is that everything was so systematic. Here are your orders, here are the steps. Just do the steps. Everybody around you also do those steps, and eventually tehre is a result. The result makes you want to shoot yourself, but you say nothing, and everyone around you is also doing it. Its almost like "give up-ism" (victims), but instead its "do-ism" (aggressors). Sort of a disconnection of what you are doing because it is too much to handle. Like "here is that group, whatever happens to them from here is not my responsability", or "here is teh poison, all I do is open this, and dump it down this tube". Man as I type this I feel dread in my gut. We are so {censored}ing lucky to live today. So lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Slaymoar Posted June 21, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 21, 2012 Man... what is the size of those? I guess they'd fit a bunch of bodies in each large one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ron Burgandy Posted June 21, 2012 Members Share Posted June 21, 2012 Man... what is the size of those? I guess they'd fit a bunch of bodies in each large one? those were single use ovens... left is where they stoked the fire, under is where the remains went. outside there was a smaller chamber with 2 more ovens. they were used to dispose of the corpses after the gas chambers which were attached. the gas chambers were mindblowingly eery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Slaymoar Posted June 21, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 21, 2012 those were single use ovens... left is where they stoked the fire, under is where the remains went. outside there was a smaller chamber with 2 more ovens. they were used to dispose of the corpses after the gas chambers which were attached. the gas chambers were mindblowingly eery. How big are the chambers? Like a basketbal court-ish? Edit: They seem smaller than that.. low ceiling.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ron Burgandy Posted June 21, 2012 Members Share Posted June 21, 2012 How big are the chambers? Like a basketbal court-ish? not at all. I felt claustrophobic in them. maybe 12x12 or something like that? maybe 16x16? there were basically 3 rooms from what I remember in a long building. you enter to the left which is supposed to be the room people stripped down, next room was the gas chamber, then the creamatorium with the ovens. nevermind, here's a full description with way better pictures of the setup at Dachau. http://www.scrapbookpages.com/dachauscrapbook/gaschamber/history01.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ***1776*** Posted June 21, 2012 Members Share Posted June 21, 2012 I think it's essential that we remember that the nazis were human. It's all too easy to see them as monsters, while they are a stark reminder that humans are capable of incredible cruelty and inhumanity. People are herd animals that crave a higher authority, one that takes away insecurity and responsibility. Most nazis were ordinary people like you and me that nust did what they were told without asking. That's the shocking part See what absolute and unchecked power does to mankind? My 1st job (teenager, was a busboy, server) was run by a eastern european jewish guy and he had the numbers on his lower arm/forearm area, i was young but i knew what it was, but i never really asked him about it --- When you think about it, its crazy {censored} that man can do at times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Robert Kortus Posted June 21, 2012 Members Share Posted June 21, 2012 I think it's essential that we remember that the nazis were human. It's all too easy to see them as monsters, while they are a stark reminder that humans are capable of incredible cruelty and inhumanity. People are herd animals that crave a higher authority, one that takes away insecurity and responsibility. Most nazis were ordinary people like you and me that nust did what they were told without asking. That's the shocking part This is very true. I hear people all the time ask, "How could people stand by and let something like that happen?" The answer: by simply turning a blind eye and saying "it doesn't effect me." People are the same now as they were 70 years ago. It's scares me to think how easily the US government could pull something like this off even today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members diocide Posted June 21, 2012 Members Share Posted June 21, 2012 This is very true. I hear people all the time ask, "How could people stand by and let something like that happen?" The answer: by simply turning a blind eye and saying "it doesn't effect me." People are the same now as they were 70 years ago. It's scares me to think how easily the US government could pull something like this off even today. Ummm... Most generally accepted accounts are pretty clear in the fact that almost no one knew what was going on at the camps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Slaymoar Posted June 21, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 21, 2012 Ummm... Most generally accepted accounts are pretty clear in the fact that almost no one knew what was going on at the camps. This, but evidence was sent to the UK years before the end of the war, but the UK could simply do nothing about it, as they were already fighting to presrve their own country. The camps were confirmed later during the war by recon aircraft, but nothing could be done still until they actually advanced that far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members diocide Posted June 21, 2012 Members Share Posted June 21, 2012 This, but evidence was sent to the UK years before the end of the war, but the UK could simply do nothing about it, as they were already fighting to presrve their own country. The camps were confirmed later during the war by recon aircraft, but nothing could be done still until they actually advanced that far. But even the knowledge of the camps, I still don't think that any of the Axis Power knew what exactly was going on at the camps. There were some people who escaped the camps and tried to tell their stories, but most fell on deaf ears, either through disbelief or inability to understand the scale of what was going on. There was actually a PBS special about one such case, where a man escaped from Oswiecim and fled back to his home country and no one believed him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dr_Kuh Posted June 21, 2012 Members Share Posted June 21, 2012 Yes I have, pretty tough stuff. The sheer scale of genocide in Auschwitz alone is horrifying. These pictures only show glasses and gold teeth of killed people and it's still shocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mr. Brady Posted June 21, 2012 Members Share Posted June 21, 2012 Humans are capable of any atrocity when the other side is dehumanized. The diehard Nazi's didn't view the jews as people. Slave owners had property, not people. The Indians were savages and not human. It's all over history. Look at Syria today, kids being executed. What have we done to stop this? Pass another UN security resolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members diocide Posted June 21, 2012 Members Share Posted June 21, 2012 Was just researching the gas chambers, and realized that many websites are saying that they were never used to gas people? Something about cyanide not being present, concentrations not being sufficient, buildings not having proper ventilation systems etc.. And then something about the people carrying the contaminated bodies from chamber to cremate would have been contaminated and died as well? WTF? I'm guessing its mostly bull{censored}... Zyklon B was the preferred method of murder. I don't really know a lot about it, but it might have contained cyanide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members diocide Posted June 21, 2012 Members Share Posted June 21, 2012 I remember reading about the Einsatzgruppen. They were these extermination squads dispatched to different parts of occupied Europe, before a lot of the camps were up and running. One way they experimented in mass murder was to "drive" people to death. They would take normal buses, seal the windows and doors shut. They would redirect the exhaust to flow INTO the passenger cabin. Once they loaded it up with people, they would drive around, suffocating the people inside. It would usually take an hour until all the victims were either dead, unconscious or severely incapacitated. They would then drive up to mass graves (usually dug by the victims prior to getting in the bus) and then drop them into it. There are tons of scary stories out there, some may want to look into it, others may not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Slaymoar Posted June 21, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 21, 2012 Zyklon B was the preferred method of murder. I don't really know a lot about it, but it might have contained cyanide. Yeah just checked out more info, the claims I saw on those websites are actually quite stupid/ridicule once you understand the scale of what happened. Their information is shady at best. It sickens me that people would actually try to deny some of the events, it is so disrespectful, ignorant and manipulative. Edit: Deleted my last post because it is simply not worth discussing, and not worth bringing up at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Phrophus Posted June 21, 2012 Members Share Posted June 21, 2012 Slaymoar, have you run across anything about Babi Yar? It's not particularly uplifting, but none of this is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Slaymoar Posted June 21, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 21, 2012 Slaymoar, have you run across anything about Babi Yar? It's not particularly uplifting, but none of this is. Kiev, yes someone I know was born there. He said his grandparents were present during the massacres there.. They said that the russian annex was worse to them because they had no food supplies (all blocked), but with the Germans the supply routes would be open again. They were not jews, which obviously had a much different experience from the Germans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RSBro Posted June 21, 2012 Members Share Posted June 21, 2012 My parents went with my Grandma (RIP) in the 90's to Poland and went through Auschwitz and some of the other places. They said it was pretty intense and wouldn't do it again. I went to the Holocaust Museum in DC when I was in HS. Not sure if I really "want" to go to the real thing. Considering so many people changed their names during that time, I'm sure I had plenty of relatives that went through that since there's no more of my last name spelled as-is in the country anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ron Burgandy Posted June 21, 2012 Members Share Posted June 21, 2012 My parents went with my Grandma (RIP) in the 90's to Poland and went through Auschwitz and some of the other places. They said it was pretty intense and wouldn't do it again. I went to the Holocaust Museum in DC when I was in HS. Not sure if I really "want" to go to the real thing. Considering so many people changed their names during that time, I'm sure I had plenty of relatives that went through that since there's no more of my last name spelled as-is in the country anymore. I thought it was a pretty unique experience after seeing all of the pictures in DC. Probably not something to repeat, but something one should experience in their lifetime if they're in to history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crunchtime Posted June 21, 2012 Members Share Posted June 21, 2012 [video=youtube;XNnaRHqtrDQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNnaRHqtrDQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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