O.T.- Readers, Lit and other academia, PLEASE come in and check this clip! (Draelyc!)

[MadKeithV]

Originally Posted by LoopQuantum

I'd suggest sucking it up, and starting over. Don't stop trying. Trashing this and starting over with a fresh perspective is progress, not regress. It's the same reason I post clips here. I want to know not if they're good, but if they suck.

I can vouch for this advice. You need quantity before quality. Creating a LOT of output and comparing it will help you discover your voice, your talent, and your discernment between good and not-good.

I was going to attempt a rewrite, but there's not a lot to go on. One piece of specific advice: SHOW, don't TELL. There's too much voice-over narration there. There's potential in the storyline but don't explain stuff in a few rambling lines that should be entire chapters of the story.

Here's how I'd see the entire story synopsis as I read it from your snippet:
- Man leaves regular life behind to chase an insane dream far away (stranger in a strange land theme, or perhaps Moby Dick).
- Local people do not judge him for his insanity, but repeatedly save him as he continues on his self-destructive path.
- Man is slowly turned away from insanity by the local people, learning the value of a simple life and being grounded in reality.
- Apotheosis: man is forced to choose between achieving the goal of his insanity, or finally returning the faith of the people that have helped him survive and become better.

At that point, you can go both ways, but it might be a more dramatic turn if the man ends up chasing his original dream and dying in the process, without ever actually seeing the "yeti".

[Phrophus]

Originally Posted by Stevetemp

Okay. cool. Lets talk.

Isn't "conveying" just another word for "relating"? Being serious here. Seems to me it is, maybe not technically...but in street-wise reality. I need to CONVEY the story and RELATE to the reader...all at the same time? Just one or the other probably doesn't work well. I most CERTAINLY need to make the reader at least sympathetic, if not actually feeling THERE. relate.

So far...I am saying I had a dream. I'm jotting down this dream as an idea for a story. It's crude...a rough draft. There's a dude..much like you and I, except so obsessed he's moved his {censored} to Tibet. He actually MAY have some lifelong formal education (for all you know, so far). Four years (or whatever) trudging up and down the Himalayan passes, meeting and being "saved" who knows how many times by who knows how many folk (a whole entire untold story(s)). And yet...holds some honor and debt to those that helped him. Hears a sound that both frightens and exhilarates him. And yet... continues his journey to honor his debt to PEOPLE rather than his obsession.

All inside of of three paragraphs.

Maybe this is too much for three paragraphs...but that is what drafts are? A basic blueprint..not the actual physical product?

No one will relate to something that they don't understand. And trust me, this isn't a matter of simpleton mouth-breathers not being able to understand something. Loop and Billy have basically said the same thing, and they're both intelligent guys. I may be an inbred cajun, but I'm a well-read inbred cajun, so I am more or less on a level playing field by now.

[sleewell]

i am hoping this is a troll thread, really hoping.

ricky bobby for post of the month, that {censored} was {censored}ing hilarious.

[draelyc]

Steve,

I'm responding here because you named me, specifically, in the thread's title. I've read your brief draft, and I've also read all the responses here. I have to say, harsh though it may sound, the advice and criticism you've received is pretty spot on.

I've taught more than a couple of creative writing classes over the years, and though I specialize in poetry, I've got a pretty good basic foundation in fiction, as well. What you've posted here looks exactly like the early drafts I've seen from folks who've never really written before, or at least never written seriously before. It's very "beginner."

Now, take that for the encouragement that it is. A beginning is a start; from there, you keep going and with effort you improve and eventually get where you want to go. God knows, I understand how it feels to be a beginner and get some hard, honest feedback from this forum ~ I'm *still* trying to learn how to sing, as my clips amply demonstrate, much to my chagrin!

MadKeithV has some EXCELLENT advice, so I'm reposting it here:

Originally Posted by MadKeithV

I can vouch for this advice. You need quantity before quality. Creating a LOT of output and comparing it will help you discover your voice, your talent, and your discernment between good and not-good.

I was going to attempt a rewrite, but there's not a lot to go on. One piece of specific advice: SHOW, don't TELL. There's too much voice-over narration there. There's potential in the storyline but don't explain stuff in a few rambling lines that should be entire chapters of the story.

Here's how I'd see the entire story synopsis as I read it from your snippet:
- Man leaves regular life behind to chase an insane dream far away (stranger in a strange land theme, or perhaps Moby Dick).
- Local people do not judge him for his insanity, but repeatedly save him as he continues on his self-destructive path.
- Man is slowly turned away from insanity by the local people, learning the value of a simple life and being grounded in reality.
- Apotheosis: man is forced to choose between achieving the goal of his insanity, or finally returning the faith of the people that have helped him survive and become better.

At that point, you can go both ways, but it might be a more dramatic turn if the man ends up chasing his original dream and dying in the process, without ever actually seeing the "yeti".

That's good stuff in terms of working out your story.

Now, in terms of working on your basic language skills, as others have mentioned, you need to learn how to "show" without "telling," and you need to work on your sentence structure and word choice.

Regarding the first item: it helps to think cinematically. If your story were a film, what would the reader *see*? Write that, and nothing else! I recommend using a 3rd person point of view, at this beginning level, instead of trying to use the main character as the narrator, precisely because the 1st person viewpoint makes it harder to avoid too much telling. So again, only write (i.e., record) what the audience would see, hear, smell. Bust your prose down to nothing but raw sensory data. And let the audience figure out what those sensory data actually mean.

In other words, don't explain everything to the reader. In fact, don't explain anything.

Readers read because they *want* to engage, they want to put forth effort of their own, and they want to figure out what's happening & what it means. Give them that opportunity.

Regarding sentence structure: forbid yourself to use any adjectives or adverbs for at least one year. Do all of your sentence work with nouns and verbs. Nouns and verbs are strong; they are real. Adjectives and adverbs are florid, overblown, weak, efeet, foppish, annoying, and above all despicable, for they are a crutch which weak and unskilled writers mistakenly believe convey skill. True, you will see excellent and seasoned writers make use of such parts of speech, but only grudgingly, and only when absolutely necessary.

Another bit of advice I'd give is to read. Now, I know you've read a lot, and I saw the pic you posted of your library. But you need to read current, just-published stuff to find out what's getting published *now*. Your draft would probably have been right at home in a publishing house in 1889. But that over-written, travel-diary style prose isn't current, at the moment, and so it makes you look n00bish (whether you are or not). So head down to B&N and check out the brand-spanking-new SF or paranormal titles that just hit the shelves to see what publishers are buying and putting out today. Then, copy them! I don't mean, of course, copy their storylines; copy their sentences, their descriptions, their use of language and tone.

Last thing: join a local writers' critique group, or start one, if you need to. Nothing will get you better, faster, than having to produce for a live audience and getting their direct feedback. Someone else mentioned taking a continuing ed. or community college course ~ great idea, and a great way to meet folks (esp. instructors) who might make good, qualified critiquers.

Good luck with it!

Chris

[JerEvil]

Originally Posted by justcrash

In addition to everything here, I would also emphasize finding a voice. Some writers can be successful with limited skill if they find a voice that resonates with the reader. Not that I think your goal should be "{censored} grammar" but it may very well take a lifetime to get that skill set given your age.

{censored} GRAMMAR
WRITE LIKE STEVE

[MadKeithV]

Originally Posted by JerEvil

{censored} GRAMMAR
WRITE LIKE STEVE

I CAN DO GRAMAR ME!

[guitarbilly74]

Originally Posted by draelyc

Steve,

I'm responding here because you named me, specifically, in the thread's title. I've read your brief draft, and I've also read all the responses here. I have to say, harsh though it may sound, the advice and criticism you've received is pretty spot on.

I've taught more than a couple of creative writing classes over the years, and though I specialize in poetry, I've got a pretty good basic foundation in fiction, as well. What you've posted here looks exactly like the early drafts I've seen from folks who've never really written before, or at least never written seriously before. It's very "beginner."

Now, take that for the encouragement that it is. A beginning is a start; from there, you keep going and with effort you improve and eventually get where you want to go. God knows, I understand how it feels to be a beginner and get some hard, honest feedback from this forum ~ I'm *still* trying to learn how to sing, as my clips amply demonstrate, much to my chagrin!

MadKeithV has some EXCELLENT advice, so I'm reposting it here:




That's good stuff in terms of working out your story.

Now, in terms of working on your basic language skills, as others have mentioned, you need to learn how to "show" without "telling," and you need to work on your sentence structure and word choice.

Regarding the first item: it helps to think cinematically. If your story were a film, what would the reader *see*? Write that, and nothing else! I recommend using a 3rd person point of view, at this beginning level, instead of trying to use the main character as the narrator, precisely because the 1st person viewpoint makes it harder to avoid too much telling. So again, only write (i.e., record) what the audience would see, hear, smell. Bust your prose down to nothing but raw sensory data. And let the audience figure out what those sensory data actually mean.

In other words, don't explain everything to the reader. In fact, don't explain anything.

Readers read because they *want* to engage, they want to put forth effort of their own, and they want to figure out what's happening & what it means. Give them that opportunity.

Regarding sentence structure: forbid yourself to use any adjectives or adverbs for at least one year. Do all of your sentence work with nouns and verbs. Nouns and verbs are strong; they are real. Adjectives and adverbs are florid, overblown, weak, efeet, foppish, annoying, and above all despicable, for they are a crutch which weak and unskilled writers mistakenly believe convey skill. True, you will see excellent and seasoned writers make use of such parts of speech, but only grudgingly, and only when absolutely necessary.

Another bit of advice I'd give is to read. Now, I know you've read a lot, and I saw the pic you posted of your library. But you need to read current, just-published stuff to find out what's getting published *now*. Your draft would probably have been right at home in a publishing house in 1889. But that over-written, travel-diary style prose isn't current, at the moment, and so it makes you look n00bish (whether you are or not). So head down to B&N and check out the brand-spanking-new SF or paranormal titles that just hit the shelves to see what publishers are buying and putting out today. Then, copy them! I don't mean, of course, copy their storylines; copy their sentences, their descriptions, their use of language and tone.

Last thing: join a local writers' critique group, or start one, if you need to. Nothing will get you better, faster, than having to produce for a live audience and getting their direct feedback. Someone else mentioned taking a continuing ed. or community college course ~ great idea, and a great way to meet folks (esp. instructors) who might make good, qualified critiquers.

Good luck with it!

Chris

hey Chris, how about the ability of putting 2 thoughts together coherently, do you think that's something he should also try to work on?

I mean, great post and advice. But it's like quantum physics for kindergarteners.

[DoubleBarrel]

Originally Posted by Stevetemp

When I wrote "yeti" my nutsack revolted!

The literary option is "abominable snowman". Your suggestion?

I can haz hugz ?

[draelyc]

BUMBLES BOUNCE!!!

[Yarbicus]

 

[draelyc]

 

Originally Posted by Yarbicus

 

HOLY FUNK!

[Yarbicus]

 

Originally Posted by draelyc

HOLY FUNK!

 

Backyardigans is one of the few kids shows I LOVE to watch with my kids. Each episode features a different style of music with some great songwriting.

[draelyc]

Interesting! I haven't seen a single episode, but Mrs. Draelyc OD'd on it during the first trimester when she was too sick to get up off the couch ~ she ended up watching like a full two days' worth of that one show! So all I've heard about it has been along the lines of "If I never see that show again, it'll be too soon..."

[seajay]

Originally Posted by Yarbicus

I love this song.

Also: