Members Elric Posted October 17, 2011 Members Share Posted October 17, 2011 The Blackstars sound good, fun amps to play and great for demos, but the harmonics of the distortion don't sound totally natural to my ears. They are a leap better than most modelers, but still can't fool for a real cranked all-tube amp if you have a discerning ear. LOL. Preamp gain aficionado with golden ears. I'll bet this is reverse placebo effect more than any real phenomenon. Those are great sounding amps for metal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SonicExplorer Posted October 17, 2011 Author Members Share Posted October 17, 2011 are great sounding amps for metal. Not when recorded. The lack of being an all-tube-gain circuit makes the amps congested and lacking the sparkle of 100% natural tube amps. At least on the hard rock/metal side of things. I could see them passing for many other styles though. There's no escaping or imitating real tubes and might never be. We are going on 15+ years of attempted amp modeling going back to the original Sansamp, to PODs to software plug-ins to multi-thousand dollar rack boxes now. None of them have yet to sound like the real thing. So, while the HT-1/5 series are very cool little amps, nobody should kid themselves into thinking they sound like the real thing for recording purposes, because they simply do not. Again, they are better than modelers, and for the price-point and features they are absolutely a winning product. And definitely fun to play, and fine for live use or demos. But nobody should kid themselves into thinking they sound like the real thing for release-quality recordings. Sonic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Elric Posted October 17, 2011 Members Share Posted October 17, 2011 Not when recorded. The lack of being an all-tube-gain circuit makes the amps congested and lacking the sparkle of 100% natural tube amps. At least on the hard rock/metal side of things. I could see them passing for many other styles though. There's no escaping or imitating real tubes and might never be. We are going on 15+ years of attempted amp modeling going back to the original Sansamp, to PODs to software plug-ins to multi-thousand dollar rack boxes now. None of them have yet to sound like the real thing. So, while the HT-1/5 series are very cool little amps, nobody should kid themselves into thinking they sound like the real thing for recording purposes, because they simply do not. Again, they are better than modelers, and for the price-point and features they are absolutely a winning product. And definitely fun to play, and fine for live use or demos. But nobody should kid themselves into thinking they sound like the real thing for release-quality recordings. Sonic So, I take it you've done a double blind test? Someone here said that Mike Soldano said *He* can't tell the POD from a real amp when recorded, Electronic Musician did a blind test with a bunch of experienced producers using software only sims and vintage amps and the producers who do nothing but record people all day could not pick out the amp sims correctly consistently, more and more people are using them on studio records, and yet we're supposed to take it on one your authority that modelers "don't cut it" for recording of all things? That's their {censored}ing forte'. And, modeling aside, it's not like no one has ever used pure SS for "metal" at the professional or even legendary level, LOL. I mean if you want to dismiss something out of ignorance or dumb prejudice that's your prerogative. Thankfully there are a lot of cool small amps coming out these days, so you'll probably be able to find something that meets your criteria but you're the one kidding himself, I think, and you risk missing out on some cool gear carrying around an increasingly antiquated bias against anything that isn't "pure" tube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SonicExplorer Posted October 17, 2011 Author Members Share Posted October 17, 2011 So, I take it you've done a double blind test? Someone here said that Mike Soldano said *He* can't tell the POD from a real amp when recorded, Electronic Musician did a blind test with a bunch of experienced producers using software only sims and vintage amps and the producers who do nothing but record people all day could not pick out the amp sims correctly consistently, more and more people are using them on studio records, and yet we're supposed to take it on one your authority that modelers "don't cut it" for recording of all things? That's their {censored}ing forte'. And, modeling aside, it's not like no one has ever used pure SS for "metal" at the professional or even legendary level, LOL. I mean if you want to dismiss something out of ignorance or dumb prejudice that's your prerogative. Thankfully there are a lot of cool small amps coming out these days, so you'll probably be able to find something that meets your criteria but you're the one kidding himself, I think, and you risk missing out on some cool gear carrying around an increasingly antiquated bias against anything that isn't "pure" tube. In fact I have done a number of tests over many years and have yet to hear anything that can simulate the big-box makers (Marshal, Boogie, etc) for high gain territory. One amp maker, such as Soldano, might not be able to notice his amp from other amps relative to sim tests, this proves what exactly? And you are citing producers participating in an editorial test?? It is possible to make a tube amp sound bad, or rather not as natural as it could. Like using too hot of pickups, overdriving the front end too much, using dead strings, using bad speakers, non-optimal grill cloth, cable attenuation, improper bias, tube ratings, acoustic cancellation, etc, etc. What I'm saying is that a PROPER GOOD tube amp tone from something like a cranked hot-rodded Marshall still to this day cannot be duplicated by a modeler. If other people, possibly including yourself, are unable to distinguish that with your ears, then it's a personal limitation, not actual reality. I totally understand why people get confused over this though. Unless you actually know what a good tube amp sounds like and literally A/B compare those tones with a modeler, many times people can be fooled. I'm not going to dignify this with any further explanation. I was probably touring and recording when you were in your diapers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members madrigal77 Posted October 17, 2011 Members Share Posted October 17, 2011 Mini Recto or 5153 50w /thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mind Riot Posted October 17, 2011 Members Share Posted October 17, 2011 [YOUTUBE]aynUeOnDl60[/YOUTUBE] This poor sap is obviously wasting his time with this totally inadequate-for-metal amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members peavey_impact Posted October 17, 2011 Members Share Posted October 17, 2011 This poor sap is obviously wasting his time with this totally inadequate-for-metal amp. /thread If you can't get killer recorded metal tones with an HT-5, I don't know what to tell you. Here's one of mine: http://tonefinder.com/?section=id&value=6987 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sevchenko Posted October 17, 2011 Members Share Posted October 17, 2011 I've definately heard some {censored}ty blackstar recordings, no doubt. Then there's this: *edited to take the video out cause I'm the third person in a row to post it. LOL. As far as the sound quality is concerned that's just as good as any 100% valve head I've ever heard. A quality 412 properly mic'd helps of course. You're not going to get as good a result from the combos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zhorellski Posted October 17, 2011 Members Share Posted October 17, 2011 There isn't anything micro about this 50 watts monster?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members madrigal77 Posted October 17, 2011 Members Share Posted October 17, 2011 This poor sap is obviously wasting his time with this totally inadequate-for-metal amp. You can't really judge by that though because all his clips sound basically identical, no matter what amp he's using. I'm pretty sure a clip of him playing through a Pignose would somehow sound like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Matt Gnarly Posted October 17, 2011 Members Share Posted October 17, 2011 I don't see the need to jump down this guy's throat because he doesn't like the Blackstar amps, and I absolutely understand where he's coming from as I found the same thing when trying out their amps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheRymanChu Posted October 17, 2011 Members Share Posted October 17, 2011 In fact I have done a number of tests over many years and have yet to hear anything that can simulate the big-box makers (Marshal, Boogie, etc) for high gain territory. One amp maker, such as Soldano, might not be able to notice his amp from other amps relative to sim tests, this proves what exactly? And you are citing producers participating in an editorial test?? It is possible to make a tube amp sound bad, or rather not as natural as it could. Like using too hot of pickups, overdriving the front end too much, using dead strings, using bad speakers, non-optimal grill cloth, cable attenuation, improper bias, tube ratings, acoustic cancellation, etc, etc. What I'm saying is that a PROPER GOOD tube amp tone from something like a cranked hot-rodded Marshall still to this day cannot be duplicated by a modeler. If other people, possibly including yourself, are unable to distinguish that with your ears, then it's a personal limitation, not actual reality. I totally understand why people get confused over this though. Unless you actually know what a good tube amp sounds like and literally A/B compare those tones with a modeler, many times people can be fooled. I'm not going to dignify this with any further explanation. I was probably touring and recording when you were in your diapers. You should try here: http://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SonicExplorer Posted October 17, 2011 Author Members Share Posted October 17, 2011 Okay, maybe some of you guys need visual aids to go along with the explanation... LoL I never said I did not like Blackstar amps or that they couldn't do metal. I am a Blackstar supporter actually. And to be clear again, we are talking about the HT (HT1/5) line only. They sound good for live use, are fun to play, great feature set for the price and can do fine for demos. But no professional in their right mind is going to use one of those amps on a release-quality recording under the delusion that it sounds like a real high gain big-box amp. If you think a producer hired by a label paying 10's of thousands of dollars for the release is going to let you record using a Blackstar HT5 then I assure you that you'll be in for a surprise. Anyway, let's get away from the Blackstar subject as that's not the point of the thread. It was about trying to identify any micro amps that might be able to replicate the high-gain big-box amps. Sonic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members metalhobo Posted October 17, 2011 Members Share Posted October 17, 2011 If you're just recording with it, use one of the myriad free amp sims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grunge782 Posted October 17, 2011 Members Share Posted October 17, 2011 In fact I have done a number of tests over many years and have yet to hear anything that can simulate the big-box makers (Marshal, Boogie, etc) for high gain territory. One amp maker, such as Soldano, might not be able to notice his amp from other amps relative to sim tests, this proves what exactly? And you are citing producers participating in an editorial test?? It is possible to make a tube amp sound bad, or rather not as natural as it could. Like using too hot of pickups, overdriving the front end too much, using dead strings, using bad speakers, non-optimal grill cloth, cable attenuation, improper bias, tube ratings, acoustic cancellation, etc, etc. What I'm saying is that a PROPER GOOD tube amp tone from something like a cranked hot-rodded Marshall still to this day cannot be duplicated by a modeler. If other people, possibly including yourself, are unable to distinguish that with your ears, then it's a personal limitation, not actual reality. I totally understand why people get confused over this though. Unless you actually know what a good tube amp sounds like and literally A/B compare those tones with a modeler, many times people can be fooled. I'm not going to dignify this with any further explanation. I was probably touring and recording when you were in your diapers. Now I feel like an idiot for even bothering a serious response to this thread. Stop trolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members madryan Posted October 17, 2011 Members Share Posted October 17, 2011 I build amps... several of the "Big Box" style amps you're talking about have diode clipping stages. You're smoking crack if you think artists of all caliber don't get "their tone" from any number of means. Producers and artists alike don't give two flying {censored}s what it says on the front of the amp when they're in the studio. It's all about what's coming out the speaker. You seem to be getting the blackstar with it's all analog signal path mistaken with modelers which are nothing like it. Take any of your "big box" amps and boost it with a solid state pedal and you've essentially done what Blackstar have done. Solid State /= Modeler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MattACaster Posted October 17, 2011 Members Share Posted October 17, 2011 I know you said not too but... Blackstar HT-5. Boosted if needed. Check out K-Bizzle rocking his. Sounds bad ass, IMO...jhiBmrCAASY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members madrigal77 Posted October 17, 2011 Members Share Posted October 17, 2011 Oh and also Mini Recto or 5153 50w /thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sevchenko Posted October 17, 2011 Members Share Posted October 17, 2011 Okay, maybe some of you guys need visual aids to go along with the explanation... LoLI never said I did not like Blackstar amps or that they couldn't do metal. I am a Blackstar supporter actually. And to be clear again, we are talking about the HT (HT1/5) line only. They sound good for live use, are fun to play, great feature set for the price and can do fine for demos. But no professional in their right mind is going to use one of those amps on a release-quality recording under the delusion that it sounds like a real high gain big-box amp. If you think a producer hired by a label paying 10's of thousands of dollars for the release is going to let you record using a Blackstar HT5 then I assure you that you'll be in for a surprise. Anyway, let's get away from the Blackstar subject as that's not the point of the thread. It was about trying to identify any micro amps that might be able to replicate the high-gain big-box amps. Sonic You're just repeating stuff you've heard from others. It's kinda cute. But you'd be shocked if you knew how many 'professionals' have recorded direct and used the line 6 pod stuff on 'release-quality recordings'. And, no need to get condescending with your age and/or experience. I've been playing guitar since the 70's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pincookie1 Posted October 18, 2011 Members Share Posted October 18, 2011 You're just repeating stuff you've heard from others. It's kinda cute. But you'd be shocked if you knew how many 'professionals' have recorded direct and used the line 6 pod stuff on 'release-quality recordings'. And, no need to get condescending with your age and/or experience. I've been playing guitar since the 70's. He has been playing since we all wore diapers = I am old an fear new things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FastRedPonyCar Posted October 19, 2011 Members Share Posted October 19, 2011 Thread: [X] Delivered LULZ[ ] Did not deliver LULZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the_gunslinger Posted October 19, 2011 Members Share Posted October 19, 2011 -FX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mickgat36@hotmail.com Posted October 1, 2013 Members Share Posted October 1, 2013 Try getting hold of the valvetone impact 2w(yeh right) best sound ive ever had in 30 yearsuse it live runa line out to a small pa with 2 x 12 inch alnico vintage Plessey speakers.check it out on youtube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mickgat36@hotmail.com Posted October 1, 2013 Members Share Posted October 1, 2013 Made in Newcastle Australia by Darrell Hoy -hand point to point wired extremely loud at 8 ohmmickgat36@hotmail.com wrote: Try getting hold of the valvetone impact 2w(yeh right) best sound ive ever had in 30 years use it live runa line out to a small pa with 2 x 12 inch alnico vintage Plessey speakers.check it out on youtube mickgat36@hotmail.com wrote: Try getting hold of the valvetone impact 2w(yeh right) best sound ive ever had in 30 years use it live runa line out to a small pa with 2 x 12 inch alnico vintage Plessey speakers.check it out on youtube mickgat36@hotmail.com wrote: Try getting hold of the valvetone impact 2w(yeh right) best sound ive ever had in 30 years use it live runa line out to a small pa with 2 x 12 inch alnico vintage Plessey speakers.check it out on youtube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Razsan Posted October 1, 2013 Members Share Posted October 1, 2013 You do realize the guys that were discussing this thread are probably long gone by now.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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