Taylor with screws through fretboard

[DonK]

It's also the Big Baby which is a full-size guitar. I wonder if Bob Taylor is "feeling the water" with these guitars to see just how much (or how little) the public is willing to accept. And in this thread I am saying to Mr. Taylor, "Hold it right there, pal." He's an innovator. He's pushed the envelope in a lot of constructive ways and I respect and admire him for it. But, in my opinion , he's taken it a little to far with the drywall screws. What do you think (about the screws in the fretboard, not my opinion)?

 

bjorn, at this point I think he could and should do away with the screws for exactly the reasons you mention: the cost in both effort and time should be negligible. At the time the BT was introduced, to the extent the screws were legitimately a cost-savings measure, I think it was innovative. Remember, no one else was making something of this quality at that price at the time (I'm discounting the Martin Backpacker, which is really a neck with a small soundbox, not a guitar , and even now the little Martin - "solid" HPL - doesn't compare IMO. If Bob T. is going to be criticized for two drywall screws, then Martin ought to be doubly criticized for selling sawdust-impregnated-with-glue covered by Formica at the same price point). Frankly, when the BT was introduced, the screws probably tended to lend it a certain cachet; though no longer so at this juncture.

[bjorn-fjord]

bjorn, at this point I think he could and should do away with the screws for exactly the reasons you mention: the cost in both effort and time should be negligible. At the time the BT was introduced, to the extent the screws were legitimately a cost-savings measure, I think it was innovative. Remember, no one else was making something of this quality at that price at the time (I'm discounting the Martin Backpacker, which is really a neck with a small soundbox, not a guitar , and even now the little Martin - "solid" HPL - doesn't compare IMO. If Bob T. is going to be criticized for two drywall screws, then Martin ought to be doubly criticized for selling sawdust-impregnated-with-glue covered by Formica at the same price point). Frankly, when the BT was introduced, the screws probably tended to lend it a certain cachet; though no longer so at this juncture.

 

Sometimes on these web forums it can be hard to make a point without sounding that you're overstating your opinion. That what's happened here. I don't like the screws, but so what really? I don't lie awake in bed thinking about it.

 

I played one of those little Martins and I thought it was pretty good. The guy who owned it is a pro musician and said he played a bunch of them before he found one that sounded good. And yeah, that backbacker thing was unforgivable. I bought my daughter one of those twenty buck Mahalo ukes that sounds way better than a backpacker.

[bjorn-fjord]

Wow! Those are great, bjorn. I had'nt seen this site. Thought you had a different one a while back? Anyway, we'll have to talk again about you building me a guitar.

 

Thanks, JT. That's the only site I've ever had.

Yeah, it's a fine line between trying to do something different from everyone else and building guitars that are just too "out there". I know I've crossed that line a few times. I'm building a reso right now that might fit into that category.

I've been working a lot with koa and flamed maple lately and I have a bunch of pics I want to upload but I can't get ahold of my web-designer and he has all the passwords I need.

I'm really impressed with some of the results I'm getting with Western maple in small-bodied guitars. Very few people are using maple for small finger-pickers for some reason.

[DonK]

Thanks, JT. That's the only site I've ever had. Yeah, it's a fine line between trying to do something different from everyone else and building guitars that are just too "out there". I know I've crossed that line a few times. I'm building a reso right now that might fit into that category. I've been working a lot with koa and flamed maple lately and I have a bunch of pics I want to upload but I can't get ahold of my web-designer and he has all the passwords I need. I'm really impressed with some of the results I'm getting with Western maple in small-bodied guitars. Very few people are using maple for small finger-pickers for some reason.

 

That's some sweet looking work, very impressive!

[Cripes]

I take a "turn the other cheek" approach to guitars that depart from my highly opinionated preferences. In other words, let the other guys buy "them". Tim McKnight puts auxilary soundholes in his guitars as an option. McPherson decided the traditional soundhole location wasn't gettin' it in their estimation of sonics. They also isolated the neck from the soundbox, with a lot of hardware, to improve tonal qualities. Martin offers formica soundboards. Breedlove uses a bridge doctor as standard equipment (very responsible building, IMO) and dang if I can hear any losses. Others depart in small ways. Some nauseatingly bling out their guitars to such extent I'd opt for B.Taylor's screws. Some can't abide the shape of the Breedlove and Seagull headstocks but they are designed to remove the lateral break angle of the strings.

 

Opinions vary greatly with both builders and buyers as to the shoulds and shouldn'ts with regard to expectations for quality. I do not like plastic anywhere on a guitar but I will buy it as a small concession. The last guitar I bought has a clear plastic pickguard and that's the only plastic on it. Is it a big deal? It's about as big a deal now to me as B.Taylor's screws. I figure a custom builder goes the entire distance when the use of plastic is aborted.

 

I don't know. Sometimes I think I'm trying to pick pepper out of fly {censored} where quality comes in to play. I see others are just as choosy but, there's always the other guy's money and B. Taylor knows it. Let him have it.

[JasmineTea]

I'm really impressed with some of the results I'm getting with Western maple in small-bodied guitars. Very few people are using maple for small finger-pickers for some reason.

I've yet to hear a maple guitar that I like. The best quality maple guitars I've been exposed to were Gibsons and they just don't hold a candle to their hog and rose relatives.

[bjorn-fjord]

Really? I could swear a long time ago you had something more basic. Just three guitars and some personal info...I don't know. I remember the skull and crossbones guitar. Did you have one with pistons inlaid on the fretboard? Same guitar? IMO, keep doing whatever it is you're doing, it looks great, sold me. Now I gotta start saving up. One of these days I'll send an email. Hopefully sometime in the spring. As for being "out there", for my taste, the skull and crossbones might be a little much but someone els might think it's the shiznitz...Who was that guy...? his guitars were way out there, functional, every one a work of art. Knockwood would remember...the Bruce Wayne of luthiers. Point is, go ahead and be colorful. It shows the workmanship well, and I think anyone who sees it would feel good about having you build them a guitar. I've yet to hear a maple guitar that I like. The best quality maple guitars I've been exposed to were Gibsons and they just don't hold a candle to their hog and rose relatives.

 

Nope. It wasn't me. Now I guess I have to scratch inlaid pistons off my list.

Yeah I haven't been impressed by many maple guitars and, as a result, I've been biassed against maple. Then I was basically given (I had to cut it down and process it) an entire 90 foot tree of the most gorgeous flamed Western maple. I sat on that wood for 15 years before I ever made a guitar from it.

I recently made a small LG sized acoustic and it totally blew me and my musician friends away. It sounded nothing like I expected. Loud, clear, and bell-like tone. Maybe it was a fluke? It got me orders for two more so I guess I'll find out.

I look forward to talking to you about what it is you envision in an instrument. From what I've heard I like your taste in guitars so I bet it would be an enjoyable collaboration.

[guitarcapo]

Um....The screws hold the neck on. They can be removed and the entire neck comes off. This is a good thing for 4 reasons:

 

1. The neck can be replaced if broken. It might even be cheaper to replace the neck than to do a refret.

2. The neck can be shimmed instead of resetting a set neck when the guitar's

action gets high over time as all acoustics eventually do. Way easier and cheaper

3. The guitar can be taken apart and stuffed in your suitcase for easier transport than carrying it on the plane. I've done this a number of times.

I usually pack my clothes around it.

4. Since the fingerboard and neck are joined the entire length (without the fretboard tongue attaching to the soundboard), there's no problem with the fingerboard warping there with humidity changes.

 

So quit bitching. It's a better design.

[bjorn-fjord]

I wasn't aware that this guitar was designed to be taken apart.

"Funny it took so long for someone to mention that little detail", he bitched.

[Freeman Keller]

I'm assuming that it is some variation on the whole NT neck, which is designed for ease of setting the neck angle (and I guess, resetting if and when necessary). The NT neck has little laser cut shims of various thickness between both the heel and the fretboard extension that adjusts the angle and the position relative to the top. While I've never seen it done, I would assume the process is to take a couple of measurements, pick the right shims out of a box (the laser even engraves their thickness) and tighten two bolts thru the heel and one into the extendsion from below. The Baby just seems to have screws on top. This is shamelessly lifted from Frank Ford's site, but shows the basic assembly

 

 

I've lifted, verbatum, a couple of Ford's comments

 

So, here it is. Another innovation that makes the assembly of guitars even faster and easier.

 

We luthiers have to remember that this is all industrial process. That means it is great for production work, but not the essence of traditional hand made acoustic guitars. I believe there's also a place for traditional design and craft in this business, and there will always be serious musicians interested in truly hand crafted instruments.

 

Touche'

[bjorn-fjord]

That Taylor design is pretty slick for sure. I wonder though, how much all that extra material in the upper bout affects the sound. Taylors generally sound a little too "sweet" for my liking and I wonder if this design innovation would contribute to that.

 

There is a whole school of thought that says guitars should be designed more like bowed instruments so that the fretboard extension is not in contact with the body at all. Apparently this allows the soundboard to vibrate more freely. That makes some sense to me but then again I wonder if this results in less vibration from the neck being transfered back to the body.

 

I tend to believe that execution is more important than tweaking the design. At least that 's what I'm going with today.