BUILDING a Classical -WHAT affects guitar playability?

[fist]

My father made a classical guitar in his spare time since he used to be a carpenter/builder; it had german solid spruce top, solid indian rosewood back and sides, and an ebony fingerboard. It sounds really nice, but it doesnt play so well. I find that its so much harder to fret the strings on this guitar.

 

So what kind of stuff affects this? One thing i know is the action, which is how close to the fretboard the strings are, but is there anything else? 'cos the action is only slightly higher than my other classical, but it is so much harder to play.

 

Thanks!

[fist]

cmon! help me out here.

[Cripes]

Height of the frets, height of the strings above the board, shape of the board (though conventional classical boards are not radiused) are all things contributing to playablility. It's okay to check the string height relative to the frets but another thing altogether from the fretboard itself. If the frets on the guitar are higher than your other guitar you will have a more difficult time of it by comparison. If the frets are basically the same height you might be able to lower the string height by lowering the saddle. There's not much one can do to alter playability of classicals.

[fist]

thanks . i heard that string tension can affect how easy it is to fret notes on the guitar - is this true?

[Cripes]

Absolutely. I prefer hard tension on my classical - Savarez Alliance strings - because I like the way they drive sound out of the guitar. Plus, I play steel string acoustic and have become addicted to that sound so I tend to ferret out a similar sound from my classical, if that makes any sense.

What you might consider is dropping that guitar down a semi-tone to relieve some of the tension. Use a capo on the first fret to bring it into standard pitch and that will also put the strings closer to the board.

[fist]

i dont think ill be able to do the capo thing! so using low tension strings makes playing easier? but is the sound worse?

[moctzal]

What's your string height at the nut? I've found that the correct height at the nut makes guitars with higher actions easier to play than a guitar with low action at the 12 fret, and a high nut.

[Cripes]

What's your string height at the nut? I've found that the correct height at the nut makes guitars with higher actions easier to play than a guitar with low action at the 12 fret, and a high nut.

 

 

Can't do the Capo thing? Why not? Easiest thing to do. What Moctzal is pointing out is that your nut height might be the culprit here. Using a capo will put your strings down and on the first fret. Can't get any lower than that and you will have better playability in the first position.

 

Take a look at Freeman Keller's "Is my guitar sick" sticky thread at the top of the page. Do some comparison checks to see where the guitar dimensionally stands.

[bjorn-fjord]

Classicals are built with a negative neck angle. Unlike a steel string, where the neck is tipped back, classical necks are tipped very slightly forward. If this was not done during the construction of your guitar you will likely not be able to achieve an ideal set-up.

[Freeman Keller]

When I built my classical I planed the relief into the neck - it is about 0.010 inch. The nut is set up exactly the same as on a steel string - if you capo each string at 2 you should have just a hair of clearance at 1. Action at the 12th fret is usually around 2 to 2.5mm on the high E, 2.5 to 3 on the low (sometimes a little higher depending on the relief). On recommendations of people on this forum I also use hard tension Savarez strings.

The neck on a classical has a completely different feel from a steel string - it is wider and flat - and takes a different technique to play, but it should not be hard to fret. Run thru the measurements in the Sick sticky, but substitute 0.010 to 0.015 inch for the relief and around 3mm for the action and see where yours is at.

[guitarcapo]

Personally I think classical guitars embrace tradition too much. Usually the fingerboards and neck are way too wide and thick. The flat fretboard is another outdated feature. Granted these features have some advantages with fingerpicking, but I think a neck that incorporated some steel string features like a slight taper to the neck, slightly radiused fretboard, and slightly thinner design might be more comfortable.

[fist]

Personally I think classical guitars embrace tradition too much. Usually the fingerboards and neck are way too wide and thick. The flat fretboard is another outdated feature. Granted these features have some advantages with fingerpicking, but I think a neck that incorporated some steel string features like a slight taper to the neck, slightly radiused fretboard, and slightly thinner design might be more comfortable.

 

 

 

i dont think anything is wrong with the fundemental design of the classical guitar. great players over the decades have proved that. i guess its just what you're used to, coz i find playing acoustics or electrics a little bit weird since my main thing is the classical.

[Freeman Keller]

i dont think anything is wrong with the fundemental design of the classical guitar. great players over the decades have proved that. i guess its just what you're used to, coz i find playing acoustics or electrics a little bit weird since my main thing is the classical.

 

 

I'm not a classical player either, but I tend to agree with this. When did Torres' come up with the "modern" classical - 200 years ago? It has remained pretty much unchanged since then, while the steel string seems to change weekly (or is it weakly?).

 

A good classical player would cringe at my sloppy technique - thumb over the top, anchored pinky, partial barres, and heaven forbid, a broken wine bottle to do the fretting. Watching a good classical player makes me realize what a crappy guitarist I really am - and the design of the guitar sure doesn't hold them back.

[D For Kate]

I have a 3/4 classical guitar that I keep in the can (what can i say, great acoustics in the bathroom!). I must say the narrower neck (~1 11/16 inch) make playing nylon strings rather difficult. I much prefer classical neck width to be as wide as possible, maybe 53-54 mm even.

I must agree with the slightly radiused fretboard, though. Flat fretboards makes playing rather tiring after a while.

[riffmeister]

I must say the narrower neck (~1 11/16 inch) make playing nylon strings rather difficult. I much prefer classical neck width to be as wide as possible, maybe 53-54 mm even. I must agree with the slightly radiused fretboard, though.

 

 

This works best for me, too: wider nut (53-54 mm) and wider than usual string spacing (46 mm at nut, 59 mm at bridge). I have one CG with a slightly radiused fretboard, a Ruck, and I really like the way it feels. It's all rather personal, though. Depends on your hand/finger size, etc.

[D For Kate]

A Ruck?!! godammmmmmm thats a nice toy youve got there!

[bjorn-fjord]

Personally I think classical guitars embrace tradition too much. Usually the fingerboards and neck are way too wide and thick. The flat fretboard is another outdated feature. Granted these features have some advantages with fingerpicking, but I think a neck that incorporated some steel string features like a slight taper to the neck, slightly radiused fretboard, and slightly thinner design might be more comfortable.

.


I agree 100% and I no longer build classical guitars because I got fed up with the rigid adherence to strict traditional design and materials. I once displayed (at a guitar show in a music school) a classical that featured a couple tasteful (IMO, of course) non-traditional embellishments (a venetian cutaway, purpleheart binding and a marquetry inlay at the tail) and it was met with snobbery and scorn by the classical players in attendance.

As far as I'm concerned they can take their organic hide glue and their super-blonde shellac flakes and shove 'em.

[D For Kate]

Im sure youre an accomplished luthier, but the one marketing credo that will always stick to me is "give what the customers want."

classical guitarists are a very pragmatic lot, dont you reckon? the time-tested Spartan design speaks a lot about function over form.

[garthman]

Personally I think classical guitars embrace tradition too much. Usually the fingerboards and neck are way too wide and thick. The flat fretboard is another outdated feature. Granted these features have some advantages with fingerpicking, but I think a neck that incorporated some steel string features like a slight taper to the neck, slightly radiused fretboard, and slightly thinner design might be more comfortable.

 

 

I agree with you on this. I have a traditional classical (my 1st guitar in fact) and play it regularly but a couple of years ago I strung up an electro-acoustic dreadnought with nylon strings (to play at a party). I was amazed at the difference a radiused, narrower (45mm) neck made to ease of playing.

 

Also, it is interesting that the Yamaha range of hybrid nylon string guitars, eg. APX9N, have radiused fretboards around 48mm width - I think that would be an ideal size.

[riffmeister]

I agree 100% and I no longer build classical guitars because I got fed up with the rigid adherence to strict traditional design and materials. I once displayed a classical that featured a couple tasteful non-traditional embellishments and it was met with snobbery and scorn by the classical players in attendance.

Excellent! Snobs-R-Us!!

Admittedly, my taste in CG aesthetics runs wildy conservative.

Come to think of it, I could say the the same thing of myself concerning electric and acoustic steel string guitars, so go figure...........

[bjorn-fjord]

Im sure youre an accomplished luthier, but the one marketing credo that will always stick to me is "give what the customers want." classical guitarists are a very pragmatic lot, dont you reckon? the time-tested Spartan design speaks a lot about function over form.

Don't you think that particular marketing rule is outmoded? Now marketing is all about creating a perceived need.
I'm with you though. I mean, I tried something different and I was delivered a very clear message. That's nobody's fault but mine. I'm just amazed at the universality of the rule. Is austerity requisite among classical players? Are there no classical rebels?

[D For Kate]

Is austerity requisite among classical players? Are there no classical rebels?

you talking nonsense, BF. jeez, havent you heard of Chet Atkins?

If I ever wanted an OM kitted out in Daphne Blue to match my strat , you'd be the first person I'd go to talk to!

[bjorn-fjord]

you talking nonsense, BF. jeez, havent you heard of Chet Atkins? If I ever wanted an OM kitted out in Daphne Blue to match my strat , you'd be the first person I'd go to talk to!

I'll have to brush up (ha!) on my painting skills. I've never used paint. But I'm your man if you want a pirate guitar!