AG cover story on Larrivee

[EvilTwin]

http://www.larrivee.com/4_news/news%20articles/2008/03-2008_AG_coverStory/Larrivee%20Cover%20Story/AG_coverStory.pdf

 

Two interesting things from the story:

-- The L-body is Larrivee's best seller (which kinda surprises me; I thought the more conventional body shapes would sell better).

-- Jean thinks: "Three millimeters between grain lines makes, by far, the best guitar. Tight grain sounds terrible."

[Freeman Keller]

That second quote was beat to death buy a bunch at AGF. Some felt that was Larrivee's way to justify using lower grade wood, some thought is was taken out of context, some agreed, others didn't.

 

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119000&highlight=Larrivee

[Stackabones]

So anything below 3mm is casserole?

[EvilTwin]

So anything below 3mm is casserole?

 

We'll have to ask JL. Perhaps it will come down to the type of casserole.

[rjoxyz]

I could be off base, but I tend to listen to what Jean Larrivee has to say about spruce. If not mistaken, he sells a lot of it to other guitar makers and is considered THE spruce expert. If I recall correctly, there is some discussion on that subject in the AG article.

[bjorn-fjord]

 

I could be off base, but I tend to listen to what Jean Larrivee has to say about spruce. If not mistaken, he sells a lot of it to other guitar makers and is considered THE spruce expert. If I recall correctly, there is some discussion on that subject in the AG article.

 

 

Jean Larrivee is, first and foremost, a businessman. If he says that wide-grained spruce is superior it's because that's what he is trying to sell. When he had a reliable supply of tight-grained spruce he would have said that tight-grained spruce was superior.

[Queequeg]

 

Jean Larrivee is, first and foremost, a businessman. If he says that wide-grained spruce is superior it's because that's what he is trying to sell. When he had a reliable supply of tight-grained spruce he would have said that tight-grained spruce was superior.

 

Jean L brokers an awful lot of spruce.

I believe that what he says is that he sells his tight-grained spruce because that's what his buyers demand, but he prefers to build with wider grained wood.

 

edit:

I have a number of Larrivee body styles and I really enjoy the L body a lot. I can see why it is their most popular.

[Crab_Cake]

pish posh. .

 

Wide grain spruce is the best.

 

My Olympia, while only being a $420 guitar is one of the best sounding guitars I have ever played.

 

The frets aren't the best, and the finish sucks, and well the build quality is horrible.

 

But its a damn fine guitar.

 

I have played the exact same model and it didn't even begin to touch the sound of mine.

 

I have a CRAZY wide spruce top. I have never seen a wider grained top then my guitar.

 

And I think it has some of the best bass response of any dreadnought.

 

Plus its a very thick piece of wood. Very overbuilt.

 

I am sold on the whole wide grain issue.

 

give me a bit and Ill post some pictures to show you.

[Freeman Keller]

This is slightly bogus because the top on this guitar is not Sitka (which is what Mr Larrivee is talking about), but guess what it is?

 

 

Yup, red (adirondack) spruce top on a brand new $40,000 list D28A

[bjorn-fjord]

 

pish posh. . Wide grain spruce is the best. My Olympia, while only being a $420 guitar is one of the best sounding guitars I have ever played. The frets aren't the best, and the finish sucks, and well the build quality is horrible. But its a damn fine guitar. I have played the exact same model and it didn't even begin to touch the sound of mine. I have a CRAZY wide spruce top. I have never seen a wider grained top then my guitar. And I think it has some of the best bass response of any dreadnought. Plus its a very thick piece of wood. Very overbuilt. I am sold on the whole wide grain issue. give me a bit and Ill post some pictures to show you.

 

 

I don't doubt your experience in the slightest but your sample is much too small to make any determinations about the comparative properties wide and tight-grained spruce.

[bjorn-fjord]

 

Jean L brokers an awful lot of spruce. I believe that what he says is that he sells his tight-grained spruce because that's what his buyers demand, but he prefers to build with wider grained wood. edit: I have a number of Larrivee body styles and I really enjoy the L body a lot. I can see why it is their most popular.

 

 

I'm a little suspicious of the timing of his statement. Now that tight-grained spruce is becoming almost impossible to get in large quantities, many factory owners are saying that wide-grained spruce is superior. It just sounds like marketing to me. Besides, what we want in a soundboard is a high strength-to-weight ratio. Tight grained spruce tends to have a higher ratio but there is no hard and fast rule. Stiff, light boards tend to make better soundboards, irrespective of appearance.

[moctzal]

I've heard many builders (large and small) say that wide grained spruce is stiffer than tight grained spruce...is that true?

[bjorn-fjord]

 

I've heard many builders (large and small) say that wide grained spruce is stiffer than tight grained spruce...is that true?

 

 

In general, the opposite is believed to be true. But it could be that what you heard was that Adirondack, or Red spruce (that generally has wider grain spacing) is stiffer than Sitka (which often has tighter spacing). But there is so much variation within a species that I find these generalizations get taken as absolutes a little too often.

 

Tight-grained spruce tends to be stiffer than wide-grained spruce and Adirondack tends to be stiffer than Sitka. And I tend to go on a little long about these pedantic details, I know.

 

It should be mentioned that stiffness is not necessarily a measure of quality either. I generally use less stiff woods on smaller guitars that I expect to be finger-picked and stiffer woods on bigger guitars that I expect will be strummed. Overly stiff wood on a small guitar often makes for a shrill sounding instrument with poor bass response. And overly "loose" wood on a large guitar can result in a muddy, undefined sound, as well as premature structural problems.

[Crab_Cake]

I don't doubt your experience in the slightest but your sample is much too small to make any determinations about the comparative properties wide and tight-grained spruce.

 

allright I concede defeat, its not very definitive, I still like my guitar though

[Kap'n]

Yup, red (adirondack) spruce top on a brand new $40,000 list D28A

 

forty K?

 

For an instrument that doesn't have the luthier's name on it?

 

I'll say it again.

 

 

My Larrivee, which I'm guessing is something like fifteen years old at this point, has pretty wide grain spruce. I don't doubt that Jean prefers it.

 

I suspect that pre-war Martins were made with tight-grain blemish-free spruce for visual aesthetics at least as much as their sonic qualities. Back in an era where hand made items strived for 'manufacturing perfection' in much the same way that realistic painters thrived before cameras were invented. Martin guitars were so far ahead of most of the competition, made in small enough quantity, and good wood was plentiful enough that they could avoid using spruce with wide grain, bear claw and other 'imperfections.' Could they have sounded better with wide grain spruce? Who knows.