Members CountGrishnackh Posted November 21, 2009 Members Share Posted November 21, 2009 I have this old Greco 12 string hummingbird copy that has some issues. I can't find much of any info on it (model 626), it's tagged as Greco by Kustom Electronics, which would date it about 1970/71 or so, but I believe it was made in 69' by Levin in Sweden, as I found the exact guitar under the Goya name, which seemed to be made in Sweden up to 69'. Anyway, it's a dead ringer Hummingbird (aside from it being a 12 string) with a lawsuit headstock, all solid wood, body fully bound. The issues include minor to moderate bellying at the bridge, to which I counteracted by taking a dremel to the bottom of the bridge so it wasn't lifting off the guitar anymore. It also had 2 decent dings in the first 2 frets which I filled with superglue and delicately sanded to meet the rest of the fret. It also has a few finish cracks on the top which do not go through the wood. It plays and sounds good, but I know these issues could certainly affect the price dramatically. I'm hurting for money and i'd like to off it on ebay, but if I end up getting $20 for it, I'd rather keep it. What exactly can I expect to get for a guitar in this condition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members seagullplayer77 Posted November 21, 2009 Members Share Posted November 21, 2009 I'm no expert, but it sounds like your guitar is probably a cheap knock-off of a Hummingbird and being as such, I don't think you'd get much for it, even if it was in mint condition. The lifting bridge isn't a huge problem, especially considering the fact that it's a twelver and it's almost 40 years old, but the bowing top is problematic. Getting something like that fixed would be pricey, so your guitar would probably make a solid beater at best. If I was the one buying, I probably wouldn't pay much more than $150 for it, if that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted November 21, 2009 Members Share Posted November 21, 2009 A lifting bridge is fairly easy for a good tech to repair assuming the glue will release with a little heat. I was charged $40 to have the one on my D12-28 reglued (but other work was being done at the same time). A bellied top can result from several things - loose brace or just years of string tension, but it is commonly associated with needing a neck reset. Check your neck angle and if a reset is necessary figure $300 or so (again, assuming that the glue will release with heat/moisture). Goya did make some 12 strings - as I recall they used pinless bridges (kind of like a classical) which, IMHO, is a fairly weak design for a 12 string. I'm not familiar with Greco so I can't comment on its value. But I would worry a bit about someone who takes a Dremel to the bridge or fills frets with superglue - neither are correct repair techniques. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Buck62 Posted November 22, 2009 Members Share Posted November 22, 2009 Bellied top?... on a 12 string? That's what the JLD Bridge Doctor was invented for! Check it: http://www.jldguitar.net/warped_tops/fixtop.html . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Montagman Posted November 22, 2009 Members Share Posted November 22, 2009 ABSOLUTELY JLD BRIDGE DOCTOR TO THE RESCUE!They really really work, sorry to get so excited, but I never spent25.00 on something and had it work so well. It tranformed my guitar into a sound machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted November 22, 2009 Members Share Posted November 22, 2009 Bellied top?... on a 12 string? That's what the JLD Bridge Doctor was invented for! Check it: http://www.jldguitar.net/warped_tops/fixtop.html . There are two kinds of Bridge Doctors - the one that uses little brass "pins" with holes in them (3965) and another that bolts thru your existing bridge and uses your stock pins (3964). Because I was unwilling to drill holes through the bridge on my Martin 12 string I tried the other kind. The string break angle was so low that those strings (the octaves) didn't drive the top at all. You can see what I'm talking about here Cranked down hard enough it reduced the belly a little but becasue of the break angle the guitar was unplayable. Took the Doc out, had the neck set (which brought the belly down) and it plays like butter. If this guitar has the Goya type pinless bridge a JLD probably wouldn't work in the first place, and I can pretty well promise that 3965 won't either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Yamaneck Posted November 22, 2009 Members Share Posted November 22, 2009 There are two kinds of Bridge Doctors - the one that uses little brass "pins" with holes in them (3965) and another that bolts thru your existing bridge and uses your stock pins (3964). Because I was unwilling to drill holes through the bridge on my Martin 12 string I tried the other kind. The string break angle was so low that those strings (the octaves) didn't drive the top at all. You can see what I'm talking about here Cranked down hard enough it reduced the belly a little but becasue of the break angle the guitar was unplayable. Took the Doc out, had the neck set (which brought the belly down) and it plays like butter. If this guitar has the Goya type pinless bridge a JLD probably wouldn't work in the first place, and I can pretty well promise that 3965 won't either. How did a neck reset bring the belly down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Yamaneck Posted November 22, 2009 Members Share Posted November 22, 2009 "to which I counteracted by taking a dremel to the bottom of the bridge so it wasn't lifting off the guitar anymore. It also had 2 decent dings in the first 2 frets which I filled with superglue and delicately sanded to meet the rest of the fret." Huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted November 22, 2009 Members Share Posted November 22, 2009 How did a neck reset bring the belly down? A number of things were done at the same time - neck reset, the bridge was removed and reglued and the bridgeplate was replaced. My speculation is that the very high action and loose bridge was rotating the top around the axis of the bridge, pushing the area between the sound hole down and pulling the upper bout up. The work did not completely remove the belly, but did dramatically reduce it. I now have a very nice low action and a nice tall saddle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CountGrishnackh Posted November 22, 2009 Author Members Share Posted November 22, 2009 Thanks for the advice regarding the bridge doctor, i'll certainly look into it. As for my rather novice attempts to fix the guitar, I will explain more clearly. The lower half of the bridge had lifted quite a bit. I removed the bridge, and using the sanding attachment of a dremel, carefully ground the bottom lower half of the bridge in a arched pattern to conform to the bellying at that point, then glued it on so it sits far more stable against the wood. As for the frets, the dings were fairly severe, and while the first few frets had moderate wear, nothing compared to these dings. I carefully filled the dings with superglue, let dry, and sanded the glue drops with very fine sandpaper to meet the rest of the fret. Sounds insane, I know, but I have used this technique before and it works just fine, albeit a temporary fix. I am no luthier, especially with acoustics. But considering I had an unplayable guitar, and turned it into a playable guitar without spending the money for a refret and any body work, I see no issues. A bridge can be replaced, a refret can be done, but these fixes cost me nothing and made the guitar playable. The neck was a bit off too, and that truss rod was tight, but did move the neck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Montagman Posted November 22, 2009 Members Share Posted November 22, 2009 I would definately check out the bridge doctor. If you think the guitar isn,t worth much you don't have much to lose, I used the screwed on type and it worked fantastic and I think it would work regardless of being a pinned bridge or not I think thats the point of the bridge dr. Breedlove is using the on their new guitars as stock. It's also a gradual adjustment. You don't try to move the sound board all at once it take a couple of weeks or even months depending on the guitar. In my case it had a profound effect on playablity and sound ammediately. I was very happy with the results, saved my git. Incidently I'm also the owner of the company that makes the B.Doctor. Just kidding, remember that hair replacement tv commercial, oh wait you might not be ancient like me sorry, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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