Members Goofball Jones Posted November 21, 2009 Members Share Posted November 21, 2009 I went out to the music store near me. Large store...not a Guitar Center, but it's owned now by them. Still, they operate as they always have. They don't put the expensive guitars up near the ceiling while the cheap ones are on the ground. You can walk right up and pick up a $6000 '59 Les Paul Historic RI if you want. They have a large selection of everything. Anyway, in the acoustic area it was crowded. Most people were over by the Martins and Taylors as usual, so I moseyed over to the classical guitar section and found a nice Ramirez. The thing was beautiful. Rosewood back and sides, cedar top, made in Spain. It was going for like $2400 bucks. Anyway, I played it and WOW I loved it! The notes rang out...BIG sound. Very loud and projected pretty far (from what I could tell). I thought I would have trouble fretting anything due to the wide 2"+ neck and my smallish hands, but I had no trouble at all. And wow, could I fingerpick! No getting my fingers all bunched up or hitting the wrong strings as I do on my dreadnought sometimes. I was very surprised by the whole experience. So then, I go to check on how the thing sounds when I do a strumming song. So I start out on the beginning of the unplugged version of "Layla"....and it sounded like I was playing a ukulele. Seriously, it sounded like I was strumming a little ukulele while wearing a Hawaiian shirt or something. It was such a stark contrast from that to the fingerpicking. I'm sure it's all do to the nylon strings, but it was pretty off-putting. I also tested out a Gibson Blues King. Not bad I guess, but it felt like it was made of balsa wood. Seriously, it was so light I was afraid to handle it. Not crazy about the color either...but that's just superficial stuff. And once again, the best sounding and playing guitar there today was the Martin 000-28ec. This may be my next guitar. But still loved that Ramirez...but not sure I could overcome the sound of it being strummed. Of course, I was using it in a way it wasn't meant to be used, so it's not the guitars fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stackabones Posted November 22, 2009 Members Share Posted November 22, 2009 Those nylon-string gits can be really nice. Hilarious about strumming it -- not sure why it would sound that way, for they shouldn't have any problem with strumming (check out rasgueado). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members larry50 Posted November 22, 2009 Members Share Posted November 22, 2009 Those nylon-string gits can be really nice. Hilarious about strumming it -- not sure why it would sound that way, for they shouldn't have any problem with strumming (check out rasgueado). Or Gabriela Quintero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pascal Posted November 22, 2009 Members Share Posted November 22, 2009 Or (with a pick), John McLaughlin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KATMAN Posted November 22, 2009 Members Share Posted November 22, 2009 I think Willie Nelson's guitar sounds great,and he uses a pick on his classical.The Ramirez guitars sound great and are top notch guitars. I played a Gibson "Robert Johnson" model once.I couldn't get over the asking price of $2000.I played $200 guitars that sounded just as good.If I had the money,I'd buy a Ramirez in a heart beat.Instead I'll have to settle for a Cordoba or Yamaha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Goofball Jones Posted November 22, 2009 Author Members Share Posted November 22, 2009 I see what you mean: [YOUTUBE]vNc5o9TU0t0[/YOUTUBE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Goofball Jones Posted November 22, 2009 Author Members Share Posted November 22, 2009 That has to be it. I have no nails on my picking hand and i was just strumming with the fleshy part of my thumb...so naturally it's going to sound like that. I had a pick with me too, don't know why I didn't just use that. But again, fingerpicking it was like it was playing itself...just so easy to do it was effortless. Almost to the point you feel like you're cheating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members larry50 Posted November 22, 2009 Members Share Posted November 22, 2009 That has to be it. I have no nails on my picking hand and i was just strumming with the fleshy part of my thumb...so naturally it's going to sound like that. I had a pick with me too, don't know why I didn't just use that. But again, fingerpicking it was like it was playing itself...just so easy to do it was effortless. Almost to the point you feel like you're cheating. I think you also have to remember that some guitars lend themselves to one form or another, and sometimes both. A guitar can be a good strummer, or a good fingerpicker, or both. You just need to find the one that will suit your needs. It could be that the Ramirez you tried was just a good fingerpicker. You can always try others to see if you can find one that can do both well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members danhan1113 Posted November 22, 2009 Members Share Posted November 22, 2009 The thing about classical guitars is that they can sound REALLY good if you play it well, or REALLY bad if you don't have a mastery of the technique. The problem with Ramirez's is they are WAY overpriced. The quality of their $2000 guitars is matched/surpassed by several other brands of similar price. Also, you really can't capture the true essence of a classical without well-groomed nails (in my opinion). The tone you get out of smooth nails is unmatched. Tone is in the right hand: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members danhan1113 Posted November 22, 2009 Members Share Posted November 22, 2009 I think you also have to remember that some guitars lend themselves to one form or another, and sometimes both. A guitar can be a good strummer, or a good fingerpicker, or both. You just need to find the one that will suit your needs. It could be that the Ramirez you tried was just a good fingerpicker. You can always try others to see if you can find one that can do both well. this. Factory built CLASSICAL guitars like Ramirez are not built to repond to strumming like a flamenco guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Goofball Jones Posted November 22, 2009 Author Members Share Posted November 22, 2009 Not really looking to become a classical guitarist...but I am interested in getting one to just play...in any style. And I do believe the tone I got from strumming was just because I was doing it with my fleshy thumb...no pick or nail or anything. But the fingerpicking again I thought was great. And as far as the Ramirez, it sounded fantastic to me. I really wish people would stop with the "oh, don't buy that brand, it's too blah blah blah". Doesn't matter anyway, probably still getting the 000-28ec. Guess someone will come along and bad-mouth that one now. I should just stop reading forums, they're nothing more than a black-hole of negativity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stackabones Posted November 22, 2009 Members Share Posted November 22, 2009 Ok, I see what you mean by the thumb. Yeah, those gits great for fingerpicking (of course), but I also like the wide spacing for flatpicking. Do you have a nylon in your collection? I think it's a great addition. So many cool uses, even if you don't play classical. fyi, a thread I posted about non-classical and non-flamenco players: Nylonistas! That Martin 000-28EC is a sweet guitar. IIRC the one I played has a v-neck. I've never had anything like that, but I could get used to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KATMAN Posted November 22, 2009 Members Share Posted November 22, 2009 I'm going to look for a cheap one Friday or Saturday.I'm looking for one with a true classical neck.My Yamaha has one but it's like a 1.85". Looking for one that has 2" or more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members danhan1113 Posted November 22, 2009 Members Share Posted November 22, 2009 52mm is standard. any wider and youd better have segovia hands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KATMAN Posted November 22, 2009 Members Share Posted November 22, 2009 Mine is that of a Seagull guitar.It's also a thin bodied classical a/e,so not a true classical guitar in that sense.Having multiple guitars,I can adjust.Plus I want a beater that I can take in different enviroments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Goofball Jones Posted November 22, 2009 Author Members Share Posted November 22, 2009 Ok, I see what you mean by the thumb. Yeah, those gits great for fingerpicking (of course), but I also like the wide spacing for flatpicking. Do you have a nylon in your collection? I think it's a great addition. So many cool uses, even if you don't play classical. fyi, a thread I posted about non-classical and non-flamenco players: Nylonistas! That Martin 000-28EC is a sweet guitar. IIRC the one I played has a v-neck. I've never had anything like that, but I could get used to it. No, don't have a nylon-string in my collection as I don't have a collection at the moment. I have a Martin D-16 that's weathered various gear sell-offs...that's it. Well, that and a MiM Strat. I'm going "upscale" in a few months as I'll have a substantial sum to lay out on a guitar. I only want one, but I want a nice one that will cover a wide variety. I've never been one of those "you have to get XXXX to play that type of music, and YYYY to play thist type of music". The 000-28ec would be the upper end of my cash outlay, so can't really get into the $3000+ category of the Huss & Dalton's or Colling's other hand-built luthiers. I really like the Taylor's also. The 814ce of course but also their GC8's...but every time someone mentions Taylor you get people going "oh, you don't want one of those...you need to check out blah blah blah". I don't mind some help, but I'm tired of people telling me what I want and what I should like. But playing a classical gave me pause. I can see this thing playing just about any style I throw at it really. Certainly not going to get into the classical "you MUST sit like this...you MUST hold the guitar like this" kind of thing. It's already started with some as I've gotten PM's saying that all the classical nylon strings you buy in stores are only for "students" and aren't for advanced or more knowledgeable players...that you have to go with a custom built one for it to be any good. Seriously? Do they perform some mystical mojo on it? It's a fricken guitar! There's only so many different ways you can make the damn thing. Let me ask the experts then...what does a custom made classical have that you can't get on a Ramirez or Alhambra or Loriente? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stackabones Posted November 22, 2009 Members Share Posted November 22, 2009 It's already started with some as I've gotten PM's saying that all the classical nylon strings you buy in stores are only for "students" and aren't for advanced or more knowledgeable players...that you have to go with a custom built one for it to be any good. Seriously? Do they perform some mystical mojo on it? It's a fricken guitar! There's only so many different ways you can make the damn thing. Let me ask the experts then...what does a custom made classical have that you can't get on a Ramirez or Alhambra or Loriente? In general, most player mix and match string sets. I don't, but I'm not a classical guitarist. I just buy strings and string 'em up. There are plenty of off-the-rack classical guitars that will do the trick. My Tak has done just fine for me for around 20 years. I'd love to get a La Patrie -- it seems like every one I've played has been very enjoyable. Custom gits (or other high-enders) are often like fine wines imo. If you've been drinking box wines or just started drinking wine, you may not fully appreciate a Chateau d'Yquem. I'm certain there are prodigies who can, but the rest of us need to put a little time into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Melodeous Posted November 22, 2009 Members Share Posted November 22, 2009 You need to buy a very expensive classical and a very cheap one. Then you can draw your own conclusions. Seriously, tone is the whole of it. I have a Yamaha attempt at a classical - CG110CE - with a cutaway and on-board electronics. You can rock the house down with this thing plugged but I doubt you'll move an eyebrow with it's unplugged sound. It's not bad but I've played others that give much more for the same playing effort. There's only so much strings can do and the rest is build. When this CG110-CE first hit the scene in the mid 90's it carried a near-$700.00 price. I wouldn't have paid that for it. I got it used for about $350.00 and that was edging my outside price for a playable, okay sounding guitar. I play very little classical music, preferring steel string, and am happy enough with this guitar for the moment. One thing about them is the need to get some snap into the strings. I play with fingernails and thumb pick and that does get much more sound from nylon strings than bare flesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Goofball Jones Posted November 22, 2009 Author Members Share Posted November 22, 2009 You need to buy a very expensive classical and a very cheap one. Then you can draw your own conclusions.Seriously, tone is the whole of it. I have a Yamaha attempt at a classical - CG110CE - with a cutaway and on-board electronics. You can rock the house down with this thing plugged but I doubt you'll move an eyebrow with it's unplugged sound. It's not bad but I've played others that give much more for the same playing effort. There's only so much strings can do and the rest is build. When this CG110-CE first hit the scene in the mid 90's it carried a near-$700.00 price. I wouldn't have paid that for it. I got it used for about $350.00 and that was edging my outside price for a playable, okay sounding guitar. I play very little classical music, preferring steel string, and am happy enough with this guitar for the moment. One thing about them is the need to get some snap into the strings. I play with fingernails and thumb pick and that does get much more sound from nylon strings than bare flesh. Well, the one I was trying out was a $2200 or so Ramirez and it sounded tremendous. One of the loudest guitars I tested that day....all unplugged. Wonderful looking...cedar top with solid rosewood sides and back, lacquer finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Montagman Posted November 22, 2009 Members Share Posted November 22, 2009 Goof ball you have to buy a more expensive classical,not off the rack no exceptions! It must be done this week. You must also sit straight backed like a mantis elbows out practise scales 4 hours a day all keys 4 hours a must no excuses! No silly Eric crapton guitar no rockabilly on bluesy bs. You must you must .... sorry to much coffee she put in 5 shots of expresso Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members danhan1113 Posted November 23, 2009 Members Share Posted November 23, 2009 You need to buy a very expensive classical and a very cheap one. Then you can draw your own conclusions. Seriously, tone is the whole of it. I have a Yamaha attempt at a classical - CG110CE - with a cutaway and on-board electronics. You can rock the house down with this thing plugged but I doubt you'll move an eyebrow with it's unplugged sound. It's not bad but I've played others that give much more for the same playing effort. There's only so much strings can do and the rest is build. When this CG110-CE first hit the scene in the mid 90's it carried a near-$700.00 price. I wouldn't have paid that for it. I got it used for about $350.00 and that was edging my outside price for a playable, okay sounding guitar. I play very little classical music, preferring steel string, and am happy enough with this guitar for the moment. One thing about them is the need to get some snap into the strings. I play with fingernails and thumb pick and that does get much more sound from nylon strings than bare flesh. If you can find a Yamaha from the 70's-80's, it will go for around $2000-3000 and sound :eek::eek::love::eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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