Members K3Fallout Posted August 6, 2011 Author Members Share Posted August 6, 2011 Well besides my seemingly endless complaining about what to do, here is a general question. When I gave them the guitar, I also just gave them a pack of Martin extra lights(10-47) because that was all I had at home. Now, I don't have much experience with acoustics and I just recently realized many people use mediums or lights. The only way I could rationalize this is that I found the dreadnought to be really boomy and that the lighter strings should help that. Could someone school me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members seagullplayer77 Posted August 7, 2011 Members Share Posted August 7, 2011 Well besides my seemingly endless complaining about what to do, here is a general question. When I gave them the guitar, I also just gave them a pack of Martin extra lights(10-47) because that was all I had at home. Now, I don't have much experience with acoustics and I just recently realized many people use mediums or lights. The only way I could rationalize this is that I found the dreadnought to be really boomy and that the lighter strings should help that. Could someone school me? I'm not really sure what you're asking, but yeah---most people use lights (usually 12s) or mediums (usually 13s) with their acoustics. I typically use 10s with my electrics, but I've never used something that light on an acoustic. Generally, thicker strings give more volume because of the increased tension. Some would argue they give better tone as well, but the jury's still out on that one. As for making your guitar less boomy, lighter strings will probably help some, though I wouldn't expect a night-and-day difference either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Greg.Coal Posted August 8, 2011 Members Share Posted August 8, 2011 . . . . I also just gave them a pack of Martin extra lights(10-47) because that was all I had at home. Now, I don't have much experience with acoustics and I just recently realized many people use mediums or lights. . . . . .Martin also makes strings called "Silk and Steel" which - I'm pretty sure - are lower tension and can bring the string height down on your Sigma. Others might weigh in on that, but I think they're a good short term/long term solution to a neck that is slowly separating. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members daklander Posted August 8, 2011 Members Share Posted August 8, 2011 Well besides my seemingly endless complaining about what to do, here is a general question. When I gave them the guitar, I also just gave them a pack of Martin extra lights(10-47) because that was all I had at home. Now, I don't have much experience with acoustics and I just recently realized many people use mediums or lights. The only way I could rationalize this is that I found the dreadnought to be really boomy and that the lighter strings should help that. Could someone school me? FWIW, I use nothing but .010 or .011 strings on my acoustics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted August 9, 2011 Members Share Posted August 9, 2011 It's too bad Freeman is away. He'd be able to help you more with the technical side of things. Seeing as it seems to mean so much to you I'd say keep the guitar and save up the cash. When you have enough get it fixed. That being said $500 seems rather hight for a neck reset on what is basically a Martin clone with a traditional glued dovetail joint. It's not something that I am sure these guys haven't done many times before. I'd shop around for a lower price. Freeman is back, but can't add a whole lot to what others have said. Bryan Kimsey (who has done my two Martins) charges $300 for a simple dovetail reset which includes a bone nut and saddle. The going rate for frets is $10 each (often you just need 5) or $150 for the whole neck. It might be that you can get away with crowning. I have no experience with Sigmas - they might not reset easily - your repair person should know before they start. By my definition a "luthier" builds stringed instruments, but that might mean violins or classical guitar or lutes. A "tech" sets them up - a good tech can do wonders to make a guitar play like butter. A "repair person" fixes things - neck angles included. There are two very good tests for whether your neck angle is OK. The one that I use when I set a neck is that a 24" straight edge laying on the frets should just touch the top of the bridge. If it is 1/8 or so below the top of the bridge (not staddle) your neck angle is bad. Maybe a better one is that IF your action is acceptable AND you have about 1/8" of staddle sticking out of your bridge THEN your neck is OK. Obviously if it fails either condition you need a neck reset. You can live with lower saddle for a while, but tone and volume will suffer. What is too low? I think less that 1/16. Lets say that you have 1/8 saddle but you feel the action is 1/32 too high - to lower it you will take 1/16 off the saddle making it pretty marginal. Is your Sigma worth the work - only you can decide. As I understand the lore, Sigmas were made in Japan under some sort of license from Martin - I've heard them called "legitimate lawsuit copies". Personally I wouldn't put that kind of money into one, but I do buy guitars like this at yard sales (for a hundred bucks or so), do whatever I can to fix them up (which gives me a good chance to practice setting necks) and donate them to our local music program for kids who can't afford a nice guitar. Your sentimental attachment may mean that you will want to fix yours up but I would certainly seek another opinion on what needs to be done and price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members K3Fallout Posted August 9, 2011 Author Members Share Posted August 9, 2011 Thanks for your additional input. I appreciate that you chimed in since seem incredibly knowledgeable (I don't hang around the acoustic forums often). The Sigma should be ready to be picked up by tomorrow or hopefully the day after. I'll take pictures of it and see what you guys have to say. For the limited amount of time I have at home before the new semester, I'll try to go through the garage to find a 24" straight edge. After some thinking, I think regardless of how it turns out this will just be a strummer. I figure if I could deal with the action when I first started learning on this guitar then I can deal it with now. If it really needs a reset, that won't happen for a long time. Instead, I'm willing to shell out the money for a replacement guitar then work it off with a job on campus. It will most likely be the Silver Creek T-160 because the shorter scale will save me some space when I pack the car for college. Plus, I'm assuming the GA/000 size won't make it dreadfully boomy like the Sigma and I can fingerpick it with more ease. Seems like it was meant to be, unless anyone has any qualms with the T-160. I just wish it wasn't $300 right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted August 9, 2011 Members Share Posted August 9, 2011 Thanks for your additional input. I appreciate that you chimed in since seem incredibly knowledgeable (I don't hang around the acoustic forums often). The Sigma should be ready to be picked up by tomorrow or hopefully the day after. I'll take pictures of it and see what you guys have to say. For the limited amount of time I have at home before the new semester, I'll try to go through the garage to find a 24" straight edge. After some thinking, I think regardless of how it turns out this will just be a strummer. I figure if I could deal with the action when I first started learning on this guitar then I can deal it with now. If it really needs a reset, that won't happen for a long time. Instead, I'm willing to shell out the money for a replacement guitar then work it off with a job on campus. It will most likely be the Silver Creek T-160 because the shorter scale will save me some space when I pack the car for college. Plus, I'm assuming the GA/000 size won't make it dreadfully boomy like the Sigma and I can fingerpick it with more ease. Seems like it was meant to be, unless anyone has any qualms with the T-160. I just wish it wasn't $300 right now. This makes all kinds of sense. It sounds like they were going to get it set up as well as they could, but were just warning you that it was approaching time for major work. A little like taking your car in for a tune up - they do the best they can but warn you that you will need rings in the near future. Depending on how you play, you may be OK with a slightly higher action. If you play mainly cowboy chords the important thing is nut slots and relief, both which don't have much to do with the neck angle. If you play up the neck, particularly lots of barres, you'll be bothered more by higher action. For a straight edge just find a yard stick and cut it off at 24 inches. Put it on the frets between the 3rd and 4th string and take a picture of the end pointing to the bridge. Also take a picture of the saddle after you get it back. The 11's are pretty light by normal standards - most of us like 12's - but they will be a little easier to fret if your action is high. The will probably be a little muddier sounding, particularly if the tech has lowered your saddle very much. The lighter tension will slow the aging process slightly, but won't undo the neck angle problem if it really exists. You can decide if you like 11's - I wouldn't be afraid of going to 12's if you don't. Post the pictures when you can and we'll try go give you our best collective advice. I'll also do a little research on Sigmas and see if I can find out more about their necks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhino55 Posted August 9, 2011 Members Share Posted August 9, 2011 One of the best sounding acoustic guitars I've ever played is a 70s Sigma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members K3Fallout Posted August 11, 2011 Author Members Share Posted August 11, 2011 Bump and update. I just got it back from the shop. And I must say.. wow. Pretty much all my doubts are gone. I think they did a fantastic job. I'm in love with it again, and playing just simple chords inspire me to play more. It sounds beautiful. This is definitely not going back into the closet. Nor am I replacing it now. I'm incredibly happy with it. The tech/luthier/repair guy breathed life into it again. The smaller gauge 10-47 Martin SP strings really helped with the boominess. It sounds full, but not overpowering. Plus, it's an absolute breeze to play now that he lowered the action. Barre chords can be played up and down. When or if I still need a neck reset, I think I'll still do it. I love this guitar now. Although, fingerpicking is substantially better it does still feel a little cramped for me. But for now, sorry Silver Creek. Maybe another time. I took some quick, really crappy pictures. I tried to get shots of the saddles and the action, but I'm terrible with my old camera and couldn't get it to focus. Nonetheless, here's some photos of it.http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/854/img0179hg.jpg/http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/705/img0184ch.jpg/http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/233/img0186kcw.jpg/http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/29/img0190ed.jpg/http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/818/img0192pp.jpg/ I did not take any pictures of how some of you guys instructed me to do so because he left me with paperwork of the measurements before and after. I thought that these numbers would answer most of what you asked from me. I had a bit of hard time reading his writing so forgive me if the numbers seem weird. BEFORE:Action(Measured in thousands of an inch at the 12th fret while fretted at the 1st fret)-Bass: 100-Treble: 105 Relief(Amount of space between bottom of the lowest string and the top of the 6th fret while a string is fretted at the 1st and 13th fret. Measured in thousands of an inch)-1002 Bridge Radius(the arch of the strings at the bridge, measured with a radius gauge in inches):about 12" Fretboard Radius: 14" FINAL MEASUREMENTSAction on bass side: 80Action on treble: 70Relief: 1004Bridge radius: 14" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted August 11, 2011 Members Share Posted August 11, 2011 Those are very good (and slightly low) action settings. Ten thou is on the higher side with that low of action - it is possible that you will get a little bit of buzzing on the higher frets (12 and up). Stepping up a string gauge might help if you do get buzzing, because I am guessing that that era Sigma had non adjustable truss rod. Otherwise I would say those are great numbers and I am particularly impressed when a tech gives you both the before and after numbers. The second picture (of the saddle) does tell me exactly what your tech said - you are due for a reset in the not too distant futurer (remember my criteria, acceptable action (which you have) AND at least 1/8 inch of saddle sticking out (which you don't). Play it and enjoy it now, start making plans for the work after you graduate. btw - very nice looking guitar - it has aged well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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