Overtones: Bridge or technique?

[math2014]

Hi all,

 

I ve noticed recently that using my LP, i get some strange metalic overtones sometimes while playing single note riffs on the AD strings from the GBE strings. I was told by some music shops that this is normal and that i should practice on muting the unplayed strings more.

 

Others suggested that my bridge is producing this (bridge looks fine).

 

and i am wondering here whats the catch, and if at the end of the day its the daddarios doing this.

[Bucker]

Test by muting all five of the other strings and then play the A string very hard, fretting at several places on the neck. Next, do the same thing and play the D string very hard at several places on the neck. If muting the other strings completely stops the problem, then you know with certainty what the problem is.

I doubt that it's the bridge, as the new Les Pauls use the Nashville bridge which doesn't have the wire holding down the adjustment screws.

[Europa760]

its not buzz?

[math2014]

If i play A and i mute the DGBE strings i got NO overtones at all. Thats for sure. I just dont know or remember if those overtones should be there while playing A without muting the rest of the strings.

[math2014]

Do you reckon its the bridge? technique?

[walfordr]

Technique.

Any string left unmuted will start to resonate if the note you are playing is near one of the overtones of that string. That's the way of the world. That's why you need to learn to mute the strings you don't want to hear.

[math2014]

Originally posted by walfordr Technique. Any string left unmuted will start to resonate if the note you are playing is near one of the overtones of that string. That's the way of the world. That's why you need to learn to mute the strings you don't want to hear.

 

 

So muting isnt only for actually muting strings that you accidentally pluck?

 

ie, this ringing metalic noise is just a byproduct of not muting and there is nothing wrong with my LP?

[walfordr]

Originally posted by math2014 So muting isnt only for actually muting strings that you accidentally pluck? ie, this ringing metalic noise is just a byproduct of not muting and there is nothing wrong with my LP?

 

 

Correct.

[math2014]

fair point,

but why this doesnt happen when i am on the neck pickup?

[walfordr]

I don't really know. Maybe the position and frequency response of your neck pickup is such that it is not picking up the frequency you are noticing with the bridge pickup.

There is no doubt though that the other strings will be sympathetically vibrating if you are not muting them.

[math2014]

hm, i wonder if what i am experiencing is what we call wolf tones.

And i wonder what i could do about it apart from muting . ie its difficult to mute while playing black dog

[walfordr]

Wolf tones would not go away when you mute the other strings. They are a result of the coupling between the strings and the body/other parts of the guitar.

[walfordr]

Some things to try to minimise the issue if you really don't want to learn to play properly!

1) Change string guage
2) Raise/lower the pickups
3) Adjust the intonation slightly

[math2014]

So basically what i am getting is resonance from the other strings when i play some specific notes.

[bcjames]

Yeah. Interestingly, my snare drum rattles on a B.

[cincy_cosmo]

There are so many things that can trigger unwanted resonance it isn't even funny. The same things that can create feedback can create resonance on unmuted strings, plus you have the resonance of the guitar itself. You have to learn to mute the strings that cause problems.

 

If you want a learning tool on how to play dealing with muting strings, buy a Fernandes with a Sustainer....it's like playing in front of Doc Brown's amp ("Back to the Future "). You can be very creative with the sounds of unbridled resonance or it can burn ya.

[math2014]

Two questions:

1. Is this resonance from not muting the strings like a ringing metalic trebly sound?

2. Should the saddles in the TOM bridge have even a small amount of play?

Yannis.

PS. Thanks a lot so far for the replies.

[Hendrix95]

Do you notice this on only higher gain settings or clean as well? I've been playing with more gain lately and have noticed that when playing leads on my LP, sometimes its hard not to get other strings ringing, so I've been trying to minimize this too lately. I haven't really noticed this on my strat. I think its probably because on my strat, the neck is much slimmer and I can reach my whole hand around it, with the thumb over the top to mute all the strings. With an LP this is a little harder to do because of the neck shape. Try paying attention to your right hand technique more and see if you're accidentaly hitting unwanted strings. The neck pup might just not be picking it up becuase you're probably touching them close to the bridge.

[bcjames]

Originally posted by math2014 Two questions: 1. Is this resonance from not muting the strings like a ringing metalic trebly sound? 2. Should the saddles in the TOM bridge have even a small amount of play? Yannis. PS. Thanks a lot so far for the replies.

 

 

They shouldnt move at all, not with the pressure of the strings on them anyway, else the intonation will always be screwing up.

[math2014]

I pick right above the neck pickup.

Furthermore, i have noticed that the saddles on the bridge have a bit of play while not having any strings on them. Is that normal?

[Hendrix95]

Do you notice any buzzing at the bridge while playing? Even on strings you're fretting? If so, the problem could be that the saddles are a little loose and are vibrating. I don't think they should be able to move around when the strings are off. I remember mine being a little loose on an old LP I used to have and it would cause a lot of buzzing while playing. If that is what's happening, take it to a tech. They should be able to fix it easily or relpace them. It shouldn't cost much to fix.

[math2014]

There is play on the saddles but only when i dont have strings on.

The guitar buzzes in general acoustically, my issue is only this strange trebly harmonic overtone ringing sound. It goes away when i play clean (almost), it almost goes away when i use the neck PU, but it appears after some notes when i am on the OD channel with the bridge pickup.

[Hendrix95]

I'll bet thats the problem then. The bridge saddles are probably loose and rattling. Using more gain will make this more apparent. Also, the bridge pup will be picking this up alot louder than the neck. Take it to a tech and have them take a look at the bridge. If they tell you its fine, have someone else play through it to see if it happens to them too. There's also a slight chance that the pickup is too close to the strings which can cause weird overtones, but it sounds like the saddles to me.

[LaXu]

How are the bridge saddles kept in the bridge? On common tune-o-matics they either use a retaining wire or little C-clamps. The C-clamps can sometimes rattle causing a buzzing noise. Taking the offending clamp out and bending it a bit to grip the saddle tighter cures the problem. Just make sure you don't break or lose the C-clamp, I haven't been able to find replacements and now use two wound string bits to hold saddles on my LP. IMO the tune-o-matic is a really poorly designed contraption in this sense.

[math2014]

It is a gotoh tune-o-matic bridge, so basically the screws are glued to a hex nut at the other side of the bridge. Hence i got no clips or wires that can rattle.

The sound is metalic, it is like an overtone or so. I attach a "bad" attempt to record this. Please listen to it and tell me if its bridge.

How can i tell if the bridge rattles and needs replacement?

So far the things i ve checked.

1. Truss rod rattling : NO its not brocken and it operates flawlessly
2. Wood broken : NO
3. Nut looking strange : NO
4. Pickup height : Looks OK
5. Strings : 3 Sets do this, Daddario 10s
6. Amp :NO i have played through various amps.
7. Frets: NO it does it in several positions
8. Poor technique? Possibly.

It looks like it is frequency/sympathetic resonance related since that Tokai resonates like hell (body/neck) i dont know if that is a good sign. I heard its a good sign for a good guitar.