Here's Why Music Should Cost $4... per 400 songs... says guy who gets music for free

[Kramerguy]

 

Because distro and design is a drop in the bucket in the cost of making a record compared to production costs of what actually goes into the recording. And if hard CD sales are declining, the shortfall has to be made up somewhere, as it still costs as much or more to produce a professional recording as it did ten years ago. You can't jettison CDs and then expect downloads to be half price too. No one will make any money.

 

 

My point was that if you made it half price, people might buy twice as much, resulting in the doubling of the revenue stream for what is essentially the same cost, as recording is the primary factor in cost, not distribution.

 

But that's a lie in a sense - there IS a cost to printing and distributing CD's - especially when it had to be physically transported to record stores. Most physical CD sales are now shipped direct to the customer, and the cost of shipping is deferred to the customer, or absorbed by the merchant - either way, the "label" isn't losing money on THAT.

 

There's also the fact that with the "decline" of the entire industry, it's not JUST the labels and artists who are losing money - the studios, engineers, producers, etc.. are ALL in the same boat. Many have lowered costs for studio time. You mentioned what a great deal you got to cut an album - would you have dreamed for such a good deal prior to 1999?

 

So why should a song still cost $.99 when the costs have arguably shrunk?

[Kramerguy]

But that’s the whole point of the experiment. Obviously, the results would be different if you put a famous personality in the subway, so what does that tell us about how hard it is being an “unknown” pushing your music in this digital age of over saturation? If all the hype you have to go on is your own shameless plugs, and you can’t demonstrate any external social validation, then don’t expect much of a reception from people. When you ask people what it is about music they appreciate so much, wouldn’t many of them point out the music itself as being the most important, be it, the skill involved, and not just appreciation for the personality playing it? Yet, remove the personality and leave just the music, and we sometimes miss out on greatness. Joshua wasn’t famous to those particular people and so they treated him like any other average street musician in that context. It’s just something to think about. The things you like: do you like them solely for their aesthetic value, or because of who the creator is, and the process that was undertaken to make such music? Anyways, I wasn't aware this topic was already discussed. I'm now going to search for that thread.

 

 

The discussion was a long long time ago, not sure the search function will resurrect it-

 

I'm not sure if we are disagreeing or not - I understand the concept of the test, but argue that the outcome was predictable and pointless (?). I'm not even sure what my point was.

[Matximus]

 

= Comparing the purchase of bottled water to music, in the way that you are, is a stretch. People buy water when they’re on the go because they’re thirsty (many use the bottle and refill it from the tap just so you know)... But I don’t think you can generalise about people feeling a need to buy music “on the go” when they’re away from the laptop.... And filling them to capacity... why? Some of my favourite albums are 30-40 minutes long.... I don't need 100+ bonus versions and extras, which in many cases, have all been assembled for just that purpose, more benign extras to throw onto a hardcopy. ...I'm waiting for the first audio commentary on a CD, where the band and producer chat away about the album with the music in the background.

 

 

The water analogy isn't about being on the go - what you buy and what you are willing to spend is ALL ABOUT CONTEXT. That is what that is about. Music sold within a digital forum - IE on a Web page they're looking at on their Web site - has no value in the mind of a consumer. This is just the way things are.

 

My belief is that the argument has largely been decided on this front - at least for a generation of consumers. And people don't need to buy music on the go - people spend most of their lives on the go. But right now they're being trained that the only way to get access to music is by staring at computer screen and punching away at a key-board. And that is because they have not been given anything even close to a better offer in the real world!!!

 

Please follow my logic ABC. A) The preferred format for enjoying music is MP3. B) The old preferable way was CD's, which do not carry MP3 files. C) People Don't Buy CD's anymore because they Prefer MP3's, which they upload into the on-the-go devices. D) They don't pay money for MP3's because MP3's are free on the internet. E) We don't know if people would pay for MP3's in the real world - ON A FREAKING PEN DRIVE OR SOMETHING ELSE THAT CAN BE UPLOADED DIRECTLY INTO THE ON-THE-GO DEVICES - because nobody has tried it. F) It should be tried god-damnit!!!!

 

And here is why they should be 30-songs long or whatever: Have you ever stolen any music on the internet? It's addictive, and ENGAGING, and greatly changes your expectations of what you are willing to pay for recorded music. The only thing that will get somebody's attention is if it is just as good or better offer than what they can get online for free.

 

12 Songs on Pen Drive is not a good competing offer and also does not take advantage of full capabilities of digital files.

[Matximus]

And on the Subway Matter - I actually came up with this idea for releasing my album while riding the subway home last night. I'm putting it on a pen drive that will have my 10 songs and TONS OF FREE PORN. But soft-core classy porn, you know, in case kids want to enjoy my music.

 

I'm dead serious. Well, mostly dead serious... kinda just a bit serious ... But why not try it? People use the internet for two things: For free music and free porn. There is a connection there - why not exploit it?

 

I got the title all ready and everything:

 

"Matximus: Big Hits and Big Tits..."

(10 Rocking Songs and 100 Nudey Pics)

 

It's funny and strange and realistic in terms of, you know, how a lot of people spend their lonely evenings... Listen - buy this record for $10 bucks and you get an added bonus of some beautiful ladies - you don't even have to worry about getting a virus or leaving filthy Web pages on your browser history...

[Dancebass]

 

E) We don't know if people would pay for MP3's in the real world - ON A FREAKING PEN DRIVE OR SOMETHING ELSE THAT CAN BE UPLOADED DIRECTLY INTO THE ON-THE-GO DEVICES - because nobody has tried it. F) It should be tried god-damnit!!!! .

 

 

Disposable plastic thumbdrives with the band logo printed on them have been available for a very long time. They were a pretty big fail.

[Poker99]

 

Disposable plastic thumbdrives with the band logo printed on them have been available for a very long time. They were a pretty big fail.

 

 

hahaha you beat me to it.

[Kramerguy]

 

Disposable plastic thumbdrives with the band logo printed on them have been available for a very long time. They were a pretty big fail.

 

 

I'm left to wonder if the fail wasn't simply because of poor implementation- I mean, I don't recall seeing them in stores anywhere, nor any adverts for them .. ever.

 

They can't just expect an idea to take off because it's good.. I think we actually covered that point here.

[Matximus]

Point me toward the failure? When? Where? I do believe you - I want to understand who tried it and when and why it failed....

 

I mean - I don't now anything at all - I need to research this.

 

I mean - was this a legitimate product launch? Or is this lazy generalization - I ripped a CD and it didn't sell. So all CDs are a failure. AS are home-made records... you know what I'm saying?

 

People didn't buy my home-made cookies. Home-made cookies are a failure - nobody wants to buy them... I mean, wha??

[Matximus]

http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/gear-up/blogs/November29/240748/238012

 

The MP3 Vending Machine Lives

 

I love it!!!

 

Here's what I'm talking about...

[Dancebass]

 

Point me toward the failure? When? Where? I do believe you - I want to understand who tried it and when and why it failed.... I mean - I don't now anything at all - I need to research this.

 

 

Just running on memory here so I don't have a lot of details. I remember them being marketed pretty heavily towards bands themselves. You would see the manufacturers ads in magazines and websites for a while. I know a few bands that thought it seemed like a good idea, my own included.

 

For some unexplained reason it just never seemed to resonate with music fans. I couldn't tell you why. I don't think anyone could. I remember them lying all over the parking lot after The Warp Tour. I know we moved one for every ten CD's that we sold. Same for other locals and regional bands that gave it a go. Eventually everyone just kind of dropped it. I think there's a couple hundred of them from my singer's old band somewhere in our rehearsal space.

 

*shrug*

[daddymack]

The cost of flash drives, when the first attempt to make it a distribution medium, was too high. It is, IMHO, still too high, but the cost of a small (250mb) is now pretty low, and this may be viable if you can find them at a 'best cost producer' level.

MP3 is not relaly a great medium for music, since the compression and bandwidth clipping is nothing but crap by comparison to a CD.

The elimination of physical media is a blessing and a curse simultaneously..the cost of distribution is radically diminished, but so is the audio quality...not really a great trade-off, IMHO, but to many 'under 30' people, who have no real context for comparison to a correctly replicated CD or hi-fi/vinyl, MP3 seems like a good way to hear music...until they go to a live show.

[Kramerguy]

but damn.. we used to listen to cassettes on a {censored}ty boombox back in the 80's. It made mp3 sound like a godsend. While the audiophiles of the world constantly talk about reduced quality, their voices are lost- much like the vinyl junkies in the 80's preaching about how much cassettes sounded like ass..

 

So music didn't evaporate in the 80's just because the medium sucked...

 

Just throwing that out there DM. something to toss into the whole equation-

[Next Direct]

 

But right now they're being trained that the only way to get access to music is by staring at computer screen and punching away at a key-board.

 

Cut out the laptop. What happens when people can download music directly to their iPhone? Wait, isn’t that already possible? And, it’s a bit inconsistent when, on the one hand, you’re suggesting bands put loads of material on a Pen Drive, but you will only use 10 of your songs and some soft pornography?

[daddymack]

 

but damn.. we used to listen to cassettes on a {censored}ty boombox back in the 80's. It made mp3 sound like a godsend. While the audiophiles of the world constantly talk about reduced quality, their voices are lost- much like the vinyl junkies in the 80's preaching about how much cassettes sounded like ass.. So music didn't evaporate in the 80's just because the medium sucked... Just throwing that out there DM. something to toss into the whole equation-

 

I agree we sacrificed sound quality for portability in the vinyl vs cassette era....but why do we have to compress music to the point that the nuances are totally gutted in this age of digital capability? Bandwidth? Bah...

[daddymack]

It could only have been 3 years ago (as the experiment took place in 2007) but you’re right, my search didn’t return any results.

Search functionality is currently truncated to the current version (vB4), so don't look there, but if you run the google/HC search, it should be there.

[Kramerguy]

I agree we sacrificed sound quality for portability in the vinyl vs cassette era....but why do we have to compress music to the point that the nuances are totally gutted in this age of digital capability? Bandwidth? Bah...

 

same thing though- it's not about bandwidth, it's about portability- We bought 90Min cassettes because we wanted more than 60min of music.. we compress 60MB wavs into 5MB Mp3's in order to fit more songs on our ipods, and even our HDD's. My 60gb work PC has over 30Gb music on it, and that's ALL my cd's converted to mp3s... I can't image trying to carry my 200+ cd case in and out of work every day and switch cd's all day long

[PermaNoobie]

 

Stealing music is a crime... I can't believe people so casually commit that crime that it is crippling an industry.

 

 

A lot of the time piracy is actually a civil, not a criminal, offense. BTW - I'm not making a comment about "rightness" or "wrongness" or anything like that.

I mean the law can be changed (like they they beefed up the criminal stuff in 1997), so maybe that's part of the puzzle to look at.

[Matximus]

 

Just running on memory here so I don't have a lot of details. I remember them being marketed pretty heavily towards bands themselves. You would see the manufacturers ads in magazines and websites for a while. I know a few bands that thought it seemed like a good idea, my own included. For some unexplained reason it just never seemed to resonate with music fans. I couldn't tell you why. I don't think anyone could. I remember them lying all over the parking lot after The Warp Tour. I know we moved one for every ten CD's that we sold. Same for other locals and regional bands that gave it a go. Eventually everyone just kind of dropped it. I think there's a couple hundred of them from my singer's old band somewhere in our rehearsal space. *shrug*

 

 

Yeah- I did see this. You had a good number of bands - from NIN to MatchBox 20 to Barenaked Ladies or something trying out Pen Drives in 2005 - 2007 timeframe. And Beatles released High-End Pen-Drive product shaped like an Apple. Pretty much looks like a flop - I wonder if it has any potential, as DMACK notes, technology and cost of portable drives has come down... That Beatles Pen Drive was ridiculously expensive, like $200 bucks and Matchbox 20 was trying to get people to buy their records and goodies for something like $35.

 

So yeah- looks my tired idea blows. Oh well.

 

The record industry as we know it is doomed. This has happened before. I'm optimistic it will all workout for the best in the end - this ain't the first time the music business has gone bust because of cultural and technological shifts (Radio Bankruptcy Wave of the 1920s, Sheet Music Publishing Collapse of the 1950s) and it probably won't be the last.

 

In the past, these disruptions gave way to great, interesting developments in music, artistically. All those independent guys went down to the Delta area to record field hands in the 1920s, looking for new sounds to expand their marketplace. Music companies doubled down on Rock-N-Roll as it destroyed tin-pan alley, big band music, which was sustained by sheet music profits.

[uab9253]

People do put music on pen drives. Gary Wright has some stuff on his website that is actually a pen drive pendant like jewelry and has some bonus stuff that you describe. His website is thedreamweaver.com

[Next Direct]

Search functionality is currently truncated to the current version (vB4), so don't look there, but if you run the google/HC search, it should be there.

 

I tried the almighty google that time and the only HC discussion was from the Synth/Keys section and only last month too. It's fine though, I found lots of outside articles and discussions on the topic.

[uab9253]

Also - I hadn't seen the previous thumbdrive discussion (I was in a hurry - sorry). I did note at a Kiss show where you could prepay for a recording at the show to receive at the end of the show. You could get it on CD or thumb at the same price, and almost no one bought the thumbdrive. Me - I like the physical copy plus I want the full CD/wav file resolution, not some squashed down 128K mp3. I would rather buy the cd and then rip to my ipod or whatever.

[uab9253]

One more thing that might make the conversation more interesting that I haven't seen brought up is the biggest cost in a new major release - MARKETING. Forget the studio time, the producer's fee (many times they take a percentage of sales), printing, distribution - etc. Ad campaigns to build demand for the product cost an enormous amount of money. That's going to blow your 49 cents a song budget before you even get to the shelves. As it is, it cripples 99 cents a song - the only hope is the that the artists that sell a lot offset the losses they take on the releases that they pay to promote, yet tank.

[uab9253]

I talk to music celebrities all the time due to my radio show and I often ask how they feel about the perception that it's okay to steal music from rich rockstars. Many have sold 20, 30, or even like KC, a 100 million records but still have to tour for income. People think, I guess because they watch Cribs, that one hit gets you billionaire status for life. Check back in with some of these rappers 3 years after their last hit single. They're back on the streets from where they came.

 

Below is part one of my Gary Wright interview. I can't remember if it came up in part one or part two and I can't get to YouTube from work, so I will post both parts.[video=youtube;FnN3Eo96JyI]

[uab9253]

Part 2

[video=youtube;G-Z5VNr34rs]

[uab9253]

KC and I talk about stealing music in our interview as well:

[video=youtube;w237mK6q6VU]