Miking amps and drums

[thinkingthought]

So I had sort of a breakthrough type thing last night when I was recording a JET song to test my ability at recording.

 

I had a 57 a couple inches away form the speaker while he was recording his guitar part: Orville SG through a Musicman 50w 1x12". It sounded great in the room, and sounded like crap when coming out of my headphones and speakers. I was wondering what the deal was, since most articles I've read about miking amps said to stick the mic a couple inches away from the cone and it should be fine.

 

Well, it just sounded fart and full of mid range and distortion. I had him play the part again, and recorded the sound while I moved the microphone around in various positions. I played back what we had recorded, and 99% of it was crap. For a split second though, I had the mic positioned so that it sounded great: crisp and clear, with plenty of brightness and the same overdrive I was hearing in the room.

 

Is this how it is most of the time when miking stuff? Do mics need to be positioned so carefully in order to get amazing sounds? It seemed as though the slightest angle changed everything. Also, is this the same situation with drums? I've been trying to get a nice snare sound with the 57, but it just ends up being dull and decaying awfully fast. Overheads as well?

 

Any help is appreciated

[Antman261]

YES!!!

 

Place mic's with your ears not your eyes! You're not listening to music with your eyes so really it doesn't make sense.

[boosh]

Indeed,..

You have to find the sweetspot of the Mic.

 

I've been carrying my mic all around the room and studio recording an amp videotaping everything so I could remember where it sounded best.

[Antman261]

The thing about all these things that try to tell you WHERE to place something is that it usually neglects a whole bunch of variables. The room makes a huge difference to sound, the amp, the guitar, the mic, the context of the guitar in the mix, arrangement etc. Sometimes those sounds that weren't what you were looking for, and thus disregarded as bad, are exactly what you need.

[alphajerk]

by close micing, you essentially take the room out the picture... stick your ear right up to teh grill and listen. put a mic back where the guitarist usually stands and there will be a major "bloom" difference. i like a combination of both, but it also depends on the sound you are going for.

 

also WHERE you put a mic up close, how its oriented on the grille, centers or tot he side, on axis or off axis. its also why ribbons [with a F8 pattern] are helpful because they do caputre the backside room of the amp.

 

sticking it up close is usually for isolation to OTHER sounds in the room.

[Antman261]

It does reduce the room, but to say it takes it completely out of the picture is a big presumptuous.

[MrJoshua]

I tend to try blending different mics. I'll put a 57 close and adjust it until it gives me the sound I want, then I'll put a C414 in a figure-8 pattern several feet away. Sometimes I'll pick one track out of the two resulting, but usually I'll pan them differently and blend the two to get a nice, full sound.

 

But it just depends on what I'm recording, really. The type of sound I'm trying to capture, etc. If you have a great guitar sound in the room, it's a lot easier to get a great guitar sound on the recording.

 

Don't be afraid to experiment, either. I've gotten good sounds by putting a small-diaphragm condensor in the back of an open-back guitar cab and reversing the polarity on the mic, then mixing it with a large-diaphragm condensor in front of the cab where it will capture more room sound. Sometimes an SM-57 a couple of inches away gives me the sound I want with nothing else added.

 

Also, remember that what sounds good by itself isn't necessarily what will sound good in the mix. If you have enough tracks to play with, don't be afraid to lay down a lot of tracks with different mics, preamps, etc (make sure you keep notes on which track used which mic and pre, how they were set, and so forth for future reference) and then listen to different tracks in the mix later with drums, bass, vocals, and whatever other instruments you're recording. Sometimes a track that sounds full and rich by itself just sounds bottom-heavy and muffled in the mix, while a track that might sound thinner alone might cut through the mix and give you a clearer sound.

 

And that's my completely amateur and not-guaranteed-to-be-accurate take on the matter. Of course, I've been wrong before...

[Antman261]

Sometimes a track that sounds full and rich by itself just sounds bottom-heavy and muffled in the mix, while a track that might sound thinner alone might cut through the mix and give you a clearer sound.

Don't mistake that last couple of sentences in the previous post as saying 'Highs are always better then lows' because that's not the case either. Not criticizing the poster, just making sure it's not misinterpreted.

 

Just having an idea of where abouts in the frequency spectrum you want a sound to end up (in relation to the other sounds) can be a really useful big-picture idea to have when setting up mics etc.

[MrJoshua]

Don't mistake that last couple of sentences in the previous post as saying 'Highs are always better then lows' because that's not the case either. Not criticizing the poster, just making sure it's not misinterpreted. Just having an idea of where abouts in the frequency spectrum you want a sound to end up (in relation to the other sounds) can be a really useful big-picture idea to have when setting up mics etc.

 

Agreed. I was just giving one example, not a general statement.

[Antman261]

Yeah I got that, just making sure thinkingthought didn't mistake that as one of those 'golden rules' we seem to search for kind of naively when we first start out (but quite understandably).

 

[I was The Funk]

So I had sort of a breakthrough type thing last night when I was recording a JET song to test my ability at recording. I had a 57 a couple inches away form the speaker while he was recording his guitar part: Orville SG through a Musicman 50w 1x12". It sounded great in the room, and sounded like crap when coming out of my headphones and speakers. I was wondering what the deal was, since most articles I've read about miking amps said to stick the mic a couple inches away from the cone and it should be fine. Well, it just sounded fart and full of mid range and distortion. I had him play the part again, and recorded the sound while I moved the microphone around in various positions. I played back what we had recorded, and 99% of it was crap. For a split second though, I had the mic positioned so that it sounded great: crisp and clear, with plenty of brightness and the same overdrive I was hearing in the room. Is this how it is most of the time when miking stuff? Do mics need to be positioned so carefully in order to get amazing sounds? It seemed as though the slightest angle changed everything. Also, is this the same situation with drums? I've been trying to get a nice snare sound with the 57, but it just ends up being dull and decaying awfully fast. Overheads as well? Any help is appreciated

 

 

Do mics need to positioned carefully?

 

Well, yes. If they didn't there wouldn't be much skill to it, would there?

 

Also, mic choice makes a difference. And different mics might need to be positioned differently. With drums the positioning is more complicated because you are dealing with multiple mics that all need to be positioned correctly not only to capture what they are recording, but also to avoid phase issues with the other microphones.

 

Most of your drum sound should actually come from the overheads. The secret to drums in order of importance is:

 

1. Great drummer

2. Great kit, well tuned

3. Great room

4. Great mics, well positioned.

[alphajerk]

It does reduce the room, but to say it takes it completely out of the picture is a big presumptuous.

 

its does enough to be true to my comment. you said completely, i only said essentially. symantics i know, but it does kill the room more than a mic sitting back 3' [opposed to 1" off the cone]... and a lot of that nice tone is the amp lighting up the room its in.

[Bang]

Cabs are very touch with placement. I would start right in the dead center of the speaker and then start moving outward from there, an inch at a time. The 57 is a great mic and has obviously proven itself worthy with guitars, but I've since switched to the Audix i5 which has a quicker response, less boxy low mids, and a tighter and sharper upper midrange. Its my desert island dynamic.

[varakeef]

I think the main reason why something sounds cool in a room and like {censored}e in monitors and headphones are the sheer difference in volume level. It will sound different because of Fletcher-Munson curve. If you're hearing different than what you're expecting to hear you'll be dissappointed.

 

Now the skill is to position the mic in a way it'll sound great when you're listening it to lower levels combined with all the rest of the instruments in a song. It's totally irrelevant what a certain sound sounds like soloed if it doesn't fit in the whole context of and arrangement of a song.