Why are guitars painted?

[flatfacerincone]

Seriously, i just read somewhere that paint is a form of plastic, a material that is known to absorb vibrations

 

So, wouldnt you think finishing a guitar with paint would be the last thing you'd want to do?

 

Also, what about pickguards? Take a strat for example. You'd think that giant hunk of plastic the pickups are in would stop most of the vibrations from the body from getting to them right?

 

Logically, does this mean natural-finish guitars resonate better?

 

I dunno, just thought id bring this up.

[GuyaGuy]

you're assuming you WANT your guitar to resonate.
that's extremely important with an acoustic.
not so much on an electric.


also, not all paint is plastic. it's often oil-based, but the clearcoat used on most guitars is usually a polyurethane or polyester.

[GAS Man]

I was reading something about this recently but my recollection is vague.

But it had something to do with "sealing the guitar body" to prevent the wood from absorbing other "stuff" that would tend to denegrate the resonance. It's like they try to get the moisture level of the wood to point A and hold it there by sealing it.

Anyway, that's just my ruff recollection from that read, cuz before, I was wondering the same thing, like why bother to coat it at all. Rub a little color enhancing natual looking stain on and call it good. But the answer was to seal the wood.

[NappyDugOut]

PAINT SUCKS!!

[GuyaGuy]

Originally posted by GAS Man But it had something to do with "sealing the guitar body" to prevent the wood from absorbing other "stuff" that would tend to denegrate the resonance. It's like they try to get the moisture level of the wood to point A and hold it there by sealing it.

well there's that too. but you don't have to use paint to seal it. you could use a poly, nitro, or any other sealer.

actually here's the best answer:

[walt0915]

Too many sweeping statements.

"plastic" is a non-specific term that applies to hundreds if not thousands of polymers each with different properties. Cured nitrocellulose would qualify, as would cured polyurethane, and others. Paint is also a general term for pigments disolved in a material that cures to a hard film. Many paints used on guitars are in fact pigments in nitrocellulose - thus the difference between a guitar with paint and without is only the pigments.

There is a lot of debate about the effect of various finishes on tone. All agree there is an effect, but not whether the effect is good or bad or even predictable. Thus I would say that a broad assumption that paint on a guitar is bad is a poor assumption. In fact, experience would probably prove otherwise as there have been plenty of painted guitars with wonderful tone. Whether the presence of paint makes the tone better or worse, and whether that change is even enough to be worth worrying about is highly debatable.

If you prefer stains (which, by the way ALSO have dyes and pigments which may also affect tone) or one finish over another - great, you found something that works for you. Stick with it.

[do art]

Mostly to protect them from variations of humidity and temperatures etc.

[pink freud]

also: do you REALLY want to see what that wood looks like under the paint of your 99$ chinese special

[flatfacerincone]

Wow, tons of cool info here.

I'm not saying paint is neccesarily bad, as obviously there have been tons of painted guitars that sound beautiful.

Also, why would resonation on an electric be a bad thing?

If possible could anyone A/B a finished and natural finished guitar, (preferably with the same hardware, ect,) and see what they find?

[docjeffrey]

Fender wanted some of their guitars to look like the cool automobiles of the 50's and 60's, so they painted strats, teles, jazzmasters and jaguars with the same Dupont paint that the auto makers were using.

If you scrape the Dakota Red, Sonic Blue, etc, off of an early 60's strat, you are likely to find a 3 color sunburst underneath.

[SPONGEBOB]

I sincerely believe ANY solid electric would ring far better with NO finish or pickguard.. I have removed several pickguards and strummed the guitar and the difference was astounding.. Screwed in plastic pickguards and thick glassy poly finishes ARE resonance killers.. NO doubt in my mind... bob

[docjeffrey]

Originally posted by SPONGEBOB I sincerely believe ANY solid electric would ring far better with NO finish or pickguard.. I have removed several pickguards and strummed the guitar and the difference was astounding.. Screwed in plastic pickguards and thick glassy poly finishes ARE resonance killers.. NO doubt in my mind... bob

 

 

I hear ya, Bob, but on a lot of higher end instruments, it is the interaction of the dyes, lacquers and the wood that gives them their signature tones. The best finishes are more like living beings, because they breathe, contract, expand, open up, close down, etc.

 

A totally unfinished piece of wood will warp, crack, split, and eventually become unplayable.

 

Here in Colorado, our relative humidity is typically in the low teens or single digits, especially in the winter. Bare wood doesn't stand a chance in these conditions.

 

Also, it is the large plastic scratchplate that helps give a strat its signature tone. They just don't sound right without them.

 

My 52 Tele RI has a Bakelite pickguard. It gives the guitar a lot of presence and the twang that we expect from teles.

[GuyaGuy]

Originally posted by flatfacerincone Wow, tons of cool info here. I'm not saying paint is neccesarily bad, as obviously there have been tons of painted guitars that sound beautiful. Also, why would resonation on an electric be a bad thing? If possible could anyone A/B a finished and natural finished guitar, (preferably with the same hardware, ect,) and see what they find?

 

 

i'm sure many here will disagree but here it goes...

 

resonance means you're losing sustain. the harder the body, the less resonance you get but also the more sustain you get. for the ideal sustain a guitar would be a neckthru piece of steel; it would sing for hours. the more the body resonates the less the strings vibrate.

 

i think many assume that an electric should resonate like an acoustic. like i said, it's vital for an acoustic or for hollowbodies. (and neither of those should be painted IMO.)

 

now, having said that, the wood resonance is what lends "warmth" to some guitars, which is exactly what you want in some cases. my main guitar has rather bright SC pups, but the basswood body darkens the tone a bit, for example. so it's really about matching your pups to the wood (or metal or plastic) and what kind of tone you're after.

[AndersonTech]

Originally posted by SPONGEBOB I sincerely believe ANY solid electric would ring far better with NO finish or pickguard.. I have removed several pickguards and strummed the guitar and the difference was astounding.. Screwed in plastic pickguards and thick glassy poly finishes ARE resonance killers.. NO doubt in my mind... bob

 

 

That might sound good for a little while, but sweating all over an unfinished piece of wood won't do the guitar any good in the long run. If the proper moisture content isn't maintained, the piece of seasoned timber (body/neck) will change size and shape - most times, not for the better. Just look how so many people need to adjust the truss rod on finished guitars when the weather changes. Image what having an unfinished neck would be like!

 

In other words, at the very least you need to have some barrier against climatic changes if you want the wood to remain relatively "stable."

 

Unless you don't sweat. Or play in humid climates. Or play in really dry climates.

[redeyejedi75]

Originally posted by GuyaGuy you're assuming you WANT your guitar to resonate. that's extremely important with an acoustic. not so much on an electric. also, not all paint is plastic. it's often oil-based, but the clearcoat used on most guitars is usually a polyurethane or polyester.

 

 

The better a guitar resonates the better it sustains.

 

It's really hard to tell a difference from a finished guitar and an unfinished guitar. But I don't understand why people paint them. I like the wood grain itself. There is something really classic about it.

[redeyejedi75]

i'm thinking hollowbody electrics here people. Don't understand your resonance theory though.

[GuyaGuy]

Originally posted by redeyejedi75 i'm thinking hollowbody electrics here people. Don't understand your resonance theory though.

to oversimplify: take a hunk of any material, let's say hard rubber. now hollow it out like an acoustic guitar, stick a neck and strings on it and strum. what will it sound like? not much of anything. now take the same hunk, put a pickup on it and what will it sound like? an electric guitar. not a great one, perhaps, but an electric nonetheless.

that's because the tone of an acoustic comes from the resonating body while the sound of an electric comes from a resonating coil picking up the resonating strings. (and to me, that's completely different than putting a mic or PU on an acoustic.)

 

anything the wood does to the tone of an electric is an INFLUENCE. it will definitely make a difference if the guitar's made of mahogany or basswood because each of those woods INFLUENCES the tone. the wood INFLUENCES how the strings vibrate, whether it scoops the mids and brightens the highs like ash; or lets them resonate longer thus reating more sustain like mahogany; or sort of "swallows" the bass attack to make the bass spongy like basswood. and even the design will affect the tone. hollowing out the body shortens sustain but creates a more acoustic tone. a bolt-on neck will create a snappier tone. so wood actually causes disappation.

 

you're right that the better the guitar resonates the better it sustains, but what needs to resonate are the strings, not hte body.

 

 

in short, a pickup cannot electromagnetically pick up and transfer the signal of the wood. it picks up and transfers the vibration of the strings.

[Carati]

Just imagine if the whole body was made of that plastic finishing material...?

Plunk plunk...plink plink!

Best thing you can do for your tone is get that polyurethane condom off your guitar.

I didnt know what a good guitar sounded like until I got my first nitro Tele.

[SPONGEBOB]

guys.. I am not advocating unfinished guitars.. I say a thin nitro finish on top of some sort of sealing coat would be plenty.. and lose the pickguards!!!

most guitars have layer after layer of hard poly strangling them... blech.....


btw, My most resonant electrics are my best sustaining guitars...

Old teles with a mostly worn off thin nitro finish ring like a brass bell when strummed acoustically...you can feel the vibration and twang strongly in the body... plug it in to an amp and it has this loooong sweet sustain like an old Fender steel guitar..

I won't argue the point with any of my friends here,but IMHO, I would take a highly resonant guitar for ALL my playing needs,,, including sustain.... bob

[whoop]

guitars need some kind of finish or else the lamination could split from exposure to humidity, dirt would get imbedded in the wood, and you'd be picking splinters out of your arm constantly.

that finish doesn't have to be paint. some necks, for example, aren't painted... people use tung oil instead. altough tung oil over the whole guitar would get pretty messy. maybe you could just stain it or use thompson's deck seal waterproofing.

[jfreaksho]

Does anyone with a Reverent or DiPinto want to comment? How about someone with an Ovation? These guitars have substantial amounts of "plastic" and yet I'm sure the tone doesn't completely suck.

I think some of you are generalizing far too much. There are many things besides the finish that affect the tone- wood quality, strings, pickups, player, etc.

I'm sure if you walk into a GC or other store with a large selection of Mexican Tele's, you will find some that resonate better than others. That will be due to the differences in the wood, more than likely, or the freshness of the strings. If you pick up an American Tele, you are (theoretically) paying for better wood and better hardware/electronics.

I'm sure the finish matters, but I don't think it is anywhere close to being the most important thing to worry about.
J.

[AndersonTech]

Originally posted by jfreaksho Does anyone with a Reverent or DiPinto want to comment? How about someone with an Ovation? These guitars have substantial amounts of "plastic" and yet I'm sure the tone doesn't completely suck.

Not to mention the guitars with 100% acrylic bodies.

It's a matter of personal taste. A lot of newer guitars have a thick finish - and some people don't like that.

I think that the choice of pickups, effects, and amplifier have a much bigger impact on an electric guitar's sound than the "paint" that's on it.