Members FUBTAG Posted July 13, 2007 Members Share Posted July 13, 2007 I am perplexed. I have been a Strat guy for 20 years. I love the voicing I get from a set of single coils. Any guitar I play I can get similar sounds (some better then others .. but you get my drift). I now have the Ibanez Artist and loving it (haven't practiced like this in a LONG time.. at least an hour every night) but I have noticed something... The humbuckers take the 'life' out of the sound. I don't mean in a detrimental way, but they are seemingly not as complex as a decent single coil set is. To me, it is a very linear kind of sound ( at least the sets that I have played in my 2 Ibanezes). It's not unpleasing, but seems to lose some of the nuance of my playing. I am not well versed in humbucker pups, but are there more lively humbucker sets? What is a burstbucker? What set gives more voice to the sound? I hope I am explaining this right.. I have been thinking for 3 days how to ask this question without seeming like an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tulk1 Posted July 13, 2007 Members Share Posted July 13, 2007 You'll find HBs to be as varied as SCs once you get into them. As for "taking the life out" of your tone, that is probably (at this stage) more of an ear thing. SCs def have a bit more chime and bell like quality which is probably what you are missing with the HBs. As for more/less complex .... an HB is only 2 SCs reversed side by side to cancel hum. Hmmm, maybe you like the hum? Burstbuckers are Gibsons attempt to replicate the in-exact winding methods used in the Good 'Ol Days. First HBs really weren't wound to exact specifications. They just kinda stopped when the bobbin looked full. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FUBTAG Posted July 13, 2007 Author Members Share Posted July 13, 2007 You'll find HBs to be as varied as SCs once you get into them. As for "taking the life out" of your tone, that is probably (at this stage) more of an ear thing. SCs def have a bit more chime and bell like quality which is probably what you are missing with the HBs. As for more/less complex .... an HB is only 2 SCs reversed side by side to cancel hum. Hmmm, maybe you like the hum? Burstbuckers are Gibsons attempt to replicate the in-exact winding methods used in the Good 'Ol Days. First HBs really weren't wound to exact specifications. They just kinda stopped when the bobbin looked full. I hear what you are saying. Again... I didn't mean the 'taking the life out' as necessarily a bad thing. Maybe I meant it's not as articulate to me. I actually feel I am playing BETTER on the Ibanez (won't my lead guitarist be pissed.... he's mad that I play better then him already) probably due to the scale difference. But the 'feeling' isn't there as much in comparison to the strat. I feel that I can make a SC scream or cry or just conversate with you. The HB seem to be a flattened out 'recording'. They same the same things, but the impact is different. I guess I am wondering how articulate HB can get.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tulk1 Posted July 13, 2007 Members Share Posted July 13, 2007 Well, I am nearly the reverse of your experience in that I'm a recent "convert" to Strats and SCs. I'v been an HB player for nearly all of my mumbly mumbly years of playing. I could never get my ears and fingers around playing SCs. Yet recently I made the effort to get to know (and now love) Strats and SCs. Yep, very different from HBs. And I feel much more "rounded" as a guitar player being able to switch from SC's to HBs and still sound like me, play like me and yet have the different nuances of the pickups come thru. Here's a good one for you, tho'. I recently sold my '06 LP Standard because the Burstbuckers weren't HB enough!! They were too jangly and open for HBs IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members strat6866 Posted July 13, 2007 Members Share Posted July 13, 2007 I understand what you are saying as i have experienced the same thing. Tried many different humbuckers and never liked any of them clean. The only time i actually use them is with overdrive/distortion.I guess i'm just partial to single coils. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FUBTAG Posted July 13, 2007 Author Members Share Posted July 13, 2007 I understand what you are saying as i have experienced the same thing. Tried many different humbuckers and never liked any of them clean. The only time i actually use them is with overdrive/distortion.I guess i'm just partial to single coils. this is EXACTLY what I am experiencing..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FUBTAG Posted July 13, 2007 Author Members Share Posted July 13, 2007 Here's a good one for you, tho'. I recently sold my '06 LP Standard because the Burstbuckers weren't HB enough!! They were too jangly and open for HBs IMO. based on what you seem to be saying... it's just something I have to learn to live with.. I guess.... though the post above is what I am finding. I didn't think HB were one trick ponies.... but that is what I have experienced so far. It's a 'trick' I can use.... but only one none the less Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Burningleaves Posted July 13, 2007 Members Share Posted July 13, 2007 I am perplexed. I have been a Strat guy for 20 years. I love the voicing I get from a set of single coils. Any guitar I play I can get similar sounds (some better then others .. but you get my drift). I now have the Ibanez Artist and loving it (haven't practiced like this in a LONG time.. at least an hour every night) but I have noticed something... The humbuckers take the 'life' out of the sound. I don't mean in a detrimental way, but they are seemingly not as complex as a decent single coil set is. To me, it is a very linear kind of sound ( at least the sets that I have played in my 2 Ibanezes). It's not unpleasing, but seems to lose some of the nuance of my playing. I am not well versed in humbucker pups, but are there more lively humbucker sets? What is a burstbucker? What set gives more voice to the sound? I hope I am explaining this right.. I have been thinking for 3 days how to ask this question without seeming like an idiot. (imo) Stratocaster types with the single coils and long scale necks are going to give you a tone that is brighter with more cut and "shimmer" than a short scale humbucker guitar. You can def' find some very dynamic / lively humbuckers but they will never sound like a single coils loaded into long scale Strat types. You might want to check out some of Duncans vintage type offerings. Duncans tend to be on the brighter side of the spectrum (imo) and may get you some of the "chime" you seem to be looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Wyatt Posted July 13, 2007 Members Share Posted July 13, 2007 I'm a big fan of that "humbucker tone" on recordings,...classic rock, metal, etc. But I have never been able to jive with hem in my own guitars. That midrange phase-y-ness that gives HB's their fat tone is just too blurry and undefined for me, I like the clarity and note-to-note definition of single coils, plus they have that nice, round bell-tone. It is not uncommon to find a person who just prefers SC tone and will never warm to HB's and vice-versa. I have sold every full-size HB I have ever owned, and I've owned some beauties. However, I'm a huge fine of mini-HB's, like the ones found in LP Deluxes or Firebirds (they are two different mini-designs). They give me some extra heat and sizzle but really retain that clarity I like in my tone. Many of the suggestions are right, you can move more to the clean, well-defined tone in a full-size PAF clone that uses unmatched scatter-wound coils. Pickups like Fralin's Unbuckers or SD Antiquities, as well as dozens of personal one-man shops. The Gibson Burstbucker I, II, and III (but not really the BB Pros) PU's are their attempt at this but are still rather generic compared to the many handwound varieties available including custom winds from Manilus, High Order, JS Moore and others. The nice thing about the small one-man operations is you can tell them what you do and don't like about HB's and they'll wind to your tastes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FUBTAG Posted July 13, 2007 Author Members Share Posted July 13, 2007 (imo) Stratocaster types with the single coils and long scale necks are going to give you a tone that is brighter with more cut and "shimmer" than a short scale humbucker guitar.You can def' find some very dynamic / lively humbuckers but they will never sound like a single coils loaded into long scale Strat types. You might want to check out some of Duncans vintage type offerings. Duncans tend to be on the brighter side of the spectrum (imo) and may get you some of the "chime" you seem to be looking for. Actually -- it's not about the 'chimey'-ness or the shimmer.. it's the dynamics that I mean. HB almost equates to balls out rock .. the subtleness of SC is lost in at least the HB that I have.... When you are playing AC/DC or Guns & Roses, there is no subtleness to the sound (maybe the playing .. but that's not what I am talking about).... in comparison to SRV ... where you can almost 'feel' his playing. But -- BB plays HB.. anyone know what he has in Lucille? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Burningleaves Posted July 13, 2007 Members Share Posted July 13, 2007 I'm a big fan of that "humbucker tone" on recordings,...classic rock, metal, etc. But I have never been able to jive with hem in my own guitars. That midrange phase-y-ness that gives HB's their fat tone is just too blurry and undefined for me, I like the clarity and note-to-note definition of single coils, plus they have that nice, round bell-tone. It is not uncommon to find a person who just prefers SC tone and will never warm to HB's and vice-versa. I have sold every full-size HB I have ever owned, and I've owned some beauties. However, I'm a huge fine of mini-HB's, like the ones found in LP Deluxes or Firebirds (they are two different mini-designs). They give me some extra heat and sizzle but really retain that clarity I like in my tone. Many of the suggestions are right, you can move more to the clean, well-defined tone in a full-size PAF clone that uses unmatched scatter-wound coils. Pickups like Fralin's Unbuckers or SD Antiquities, as well as dozzens of personal one-man shops. The Gibson Burstbucker I, II, and III (but not really the BB Pros) PU's are their attempt at this but are still rather generic compared to the many handwound varieties available including custom winds from Manilus, High Order, JS Moore and others. The nice thing about the small one-man operations is you can tell them what you do and don't like about HB's and they'll wind to your tastes. Good post. Also, Some of the smaller operations will re-wind pups you already have to one of their model spec's for a bit less than buying one outright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FUBTAG Posted July 13, 2007 Author Members Share Posted July 13, 2007 Many of the suggestions are right, you can move more to the clean, well-defined tone in a full-size PAF clone that uses unmatched scatter-wound coils. Pickups like Fralin's Unbuckers or SD Antiquities, as well as dozzens of personal one-man shops. The Gibson Burstbucker I, II, and III (but not really the BB Pros) PU's are their attempt at this but are still rather generic compared to the many handwound varieties available including custom winds from Manilus, High Order, JS Moore and others. The nice thing about the small one-man operations is you can tell them what you do and don't like about HB's and they'll wind to your tastes. This is what I was looking for.... alternatives! As I got a GREAT deal on the Ibanez... I think I am going to splurge for a set as you suggest... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DenverDave Posted July 13, 2007 Members Share Posted July 13, 2007 I'm a big fan of that "humbucker tone" on recordings,...classic rock, metal, etc. But I have never been able to jive with hem in my own guitars. That midrange phase-y-ness that gives HB's their fat tone is just too blurry and undefined for me, I like the clarity and note-to-note definition of single coils, plus they have that nice, round bell-tone. That is pretty much my feeling verbatim. I love the humbucker sound, but i have never really bonded with them as a player - I much prefer the SC tone in my own playing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Burningleaves Posted July 13, 2007 Members Share Posted July 13, 2007 Actually -- it's not about the 'chimey'-ness or the shimmer.. it's the dynamics that I mean. HB almost equates to balls out rock .. the subtleness of SC is lost in at least the HB that I have.... When you are playing AC/DC or Guns & Roses, there is no subtleness to the sound (maybe the playing .. but that's not what I am talking about).... in comparison to SRV ... where you can almost 'feel' his playing. But -- BB plays HB.. anyone know what he has in Lucille? Hmmm...If you are looking for a SRV type tones you would be better off sticking to single coil / long scale strat types. Not sure exactly what pups B.B. has in his actual guitars but the Gibson Custom shop B.B. King Lucille models come with 490R neck and 490T bridge pups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FUBTAG Posted July 13, 2007 Author Members Share Posted July 13, 2007 Hmmm...If you are looking for a SRV type tones you would be better off sticking to single coil / long scale strat types. Not sure exactly what pups B.B. has in his actual guitars but the Gibson Custom shop B.B. King Lucille models come with 490R neck and 490T bridge pups. I am not looking to achieve their sounds.. just comparing differences. a more defined, articulated sound from an HB type pup I guess is what I am missing. ya know.. like when you forget to put sugar on your Special K??? It's still cereal.. but missing 'something' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FUBTAG Posted July 13, 2007 Author Members Share Posted July 13, 2007 How did you know I wanted to learn mountain dulcimer?!?!?!?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Burningleaves Posted July 13, 2007 Members Share Posted July 13, 2007 I am not looking to achieve their sounds.. just comparing differences. a more defined, articulated sound from an HB type pup I guess is what I am missing. ya know.. like when you forget to put sugar on your Special K??? It's still cereal.. but missing 'something' Check out this guys offerings.http://wolfetone.com/productsandpricing.html Pricey but not really when you consider that a Gibson 490 set would run you around $220-$240 a set brand new through Musiciansfriend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Burningleaves Posted July 13, 2007 Members Share Posted July 13, 2007 How did you know I wanted to learn mountain dulcimer?!?!?!?!?! Don't know why it went to that site:D Here is the one I was talking about:thu:........in above post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Wyatt Posted July 13, 2007 Members Share Posted July 13, 2007 Check out this guys offerings.http://wolfetone.com/productsandpricing.htmlPricey but not really when you consider that a Gibson 490 set would run you around $220-$240 a set brand new through Musiciansfriend. Wolfe used to be a regular on the old HCGF, back in the '90's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ashasha Posted July 13, 2007 Members Share Posted July 13, 2007 I understand what you are saying as i have experienced the same thing. Tried many different humbuckers and never liked any of them clean. The only time i actually use them is with overdrive/distortion.I guess i'm just partial to single coils. I am in the same boat for the most part although I love the nice fat bloated muddy sound that a neck HB can give you. Its like a fat chic or something and even though I ain't into them, I like that tone for some thing. I never liked SC's until recently and now I love them because I do play so much more without distortion. But as soon as I want to churn out something that can rip your head off I either plug in the LP or my OLP Axis copy. Now here is a strange one, if I put the OLP in the middle position it sounds a lot like an SC. I haven't figured that one out yet, but needless to say I don't mess with the hieght or anything because it is killer having that option there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members strat6866 Posted July 13, 2007 Members Share Posted July 13, 2007 Now here is a strange one, if I put the OLP in the middle position it sounds a lot like an SC. I haven't figured that one out yet, but needless to say I don't mess with the hieght or anything because it is killer having that option there. Is it possible that it was wired so that the middle position was for a split coil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaleH Posted July 13, 2007 Members Share Posted July 13, 2007 The BB King signature guitar has 490R Alnico HB Neck and 490T Alnico HB Bridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FUBTAG Posted July 13, 2007 Author Members Share Posted July 13, 2007 The BB King signature guitar has 490R Alnico HB Neck and 490T Alnico HB Bridge. that is great to know.... thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members peavey_impact Posted July 13, 2007 Members Share Posted July 13, 2007 What amps do you use, FUBTAG? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FUBTAG Posted July 13, 2007 Author Members Share Posted July 13, 2007 What amps do you use, FUBTAG? Fender Deluxe 112 (sorry -- I actually forget what it is! . haha) but at home for comparison both are being played through my Roland Cube .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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