Is 29 too old to start from the bottom?

[fumetti]

So then... is 42 too old to start?

 

I got serious last year when I needed a creative outlet. (Been an artist, journalist, teacher, all kinds of things. Thought I'd pursue a creative passion I've tinkered with for 25 years.) Bought some decent gear, and practice every day. I'm getting to the point where I think I'm close to recording some songs and performing on a small scale. (No intentions of being famous or on MTV or any of that.)

 

But is it feasible? Even as a hobby? Or am I just another (doomed) Peter Pan?

[oolceeoo]

I see that! And I know how it reads simply because I've heard plenty others say the same thing. I'm perfectly willing to comprimise. The "written music" I've always viewed as a basis. I've never told anyone they have to play something note for note or they're out. But it really is an uphill struggle to get anyone playing anything heavier than fecking Guns n Roses these days, unless it's some random noodling bollocks with the word 'core attached to the end of it. I just see that as an excuse to play any random bollocks. But if I'm really honest and if I want to be big headed, I'm a good player. I practise, I studied music to degree level, I've spent my formative years studying structure, instruments as a whole (I also play piano, saxaphone and I'm a pretty accomplished flutist if I may be so bold). Therefore I have been asked a number of times to play for bands. But if the music is the same old shit that just plain annoys me, I wouldn't give it the time of day. Why would I? At the end of the day, I'm just a bit frustrated because like you say, it's older you get, not younger. One day, I could have kids and then it's definately over. I have plenty of the "right" contacts and I can put the effort in now to get something somewhere. It's just a piss not to be able to have a stable and reliable line up! Not a lineup of monkeys, but musicians who really want to contribute creatively and don't have the ego of Liam Gallagher. It's amazing!

 

Sounds like the person typing this has an ego similar to Liam Gallagher's

[Surrealistic]

I got serious last year when I needed a creative outlet. (Been an artist, journalist, teacher, all kinds of things. Thought I'd pursue a creative passion I've tinkered with for 25 years.) Bought some decent gear, and practice every day. I'm getting to the point where I think I'm close to recording some songs and performing on a small scale. (No intentions of being famous or on MTV or any of that.) But is it feasible? Even as a hobby? Or am I just another (doomed) Peter Pan?

From where I'm sitting I thought we'd already covered this.

 

I don't understand how the number of years a person has lived on this planet has any bearing on the feasibility of that person making music. For future reference my answer will remain the same all the way up to age 100

 

Actually, come to think of it, someone starting out at 100 probably has way more chance of making it with only a modicum of talent. Imagine the way the marketing machine would exploit the novelty value of that!

[tjsutton]

Myself, as well as most musicians I've known in my life, started playing music for INTRINSIC value. I play because I HAVE to play. Doesn't matter whether anyone else likes it, doesn't even matter much if I like it. That's not going to make me stop playing. If I knew right now, that no-one other than me will ever even hear my music, it wouldn't make me stop playing.

 

On the flip side of this view point, if you need some sort of approval from others to make you feel good about you, join big brothers of america or the ymca or something else. The business of music is {censored}ing brutal. If strapping on that guitar isn't enough to make you feel good about you, then musicians are not what you're looking for.

 

Ever heard the term starving artist? There's a reason they don't all quit and get day jobs. They're passionate enough about what they're doing and why they're doing it, they'd rather starve and do something they love. The vast majority of these folks, myself included, are older than 29. Quite honestly the question you're asking has never even crossed my mind. It might matter to other people how old I am, but it doesn't matter to me. I'm not stopping 'till artheritis sets in so badly that I can't play and open G anymore, and even then I'll still have my trusty harp.

 

In this respect, if you have to ask, then you've already decided...

[MaxKincaide]

 

Myself, as well as most musicians I've known in my life, started playing music for INTRINSIC value. I play because I HAVE to play. Doesn't matter whether anyone else likes it, doesn't even matter much if I like it. That's not going to make me stop playing. If I knew right now, that no-one other than me will ever even hear my music, it wouldn't make me stop playing. On the flip side of this view point, if you need some sort of approval from others to make you feel good about you, join big brothers of america or the ymca or something else. The business of music is {censored}ing brutal. If strapping on that guitar isn't enough to make you feel good about you, then musicians are not what you're looking for. Ever heard the term starving artist? There's a reason they don't all quit and get day jobs. They're passionate enough about what they're doing and why they're doing it, they'd rather starve and do something they love. The vast majority of these folks, myself included, are older than 29. Quite honestly the question you're asking has never even crossed my mind. It might matter to other people how old I am, but it doesn't matter to me. I'm not stopping 'till artheritis sets in so badly that I can't play and open G anymore, and even then I'll still have my trusty harp. In this respect, if you have to ask, then you've already decided ...

 

 

I understand this is the way you see things and all....but with the part I've bolded up there in your post, I have to disagree with.

 

Not everyone who has "made it" as a rockstar has gone the "starving artist" route, nor do they have to. There is no set method or path that you have to go down in order to "make it". There are things that you do need to do in order to further your career, but jumping into music with no backup plan, no schooling, no day job...it's not a necessity.

 

"Starving artist" comes from the fact that when artists are starting to build their reputation, the money isn't always easy to come by. It doesn't mean that someone should not hold a day job so that they can dedicate every waking moment to being a successful band. The reason for that is that you can waste your whole life dedicating all your time and energy to furthering your music career with no other jobs or goals in life, and you still may never get to the point that you want to get to.

 

You have to be smart. Learn how the business works. Use that information to your advantage. Use whatever money you can afford from your day job to push your band further, as long as you don't put yourself at risk of not being able to afford to live. Basically, use common sense.

[BlueStrat]

"Starving artist" comes from the fact that when artists are starting to build their reputation, the money isn't always easy to come by.

Yes, and in the case of musicians maybe more than most, it means they jump into the business part of music without the slightest inkling of how business works. They starve because they make stupid decisions based on hope, delusion, ignorance and assumptions.

[Dthraco]

29 is not too old to start. Not even close.

 

I didn't play in a band till I was 29. I started my first band at 30. I jsut finished my last project, a 3-piece, at 36.

 

We were a well known local band and had a very good following. (it was time to move on)

 

The bottom line is that you should go for it. Building bands and being the leader guy can be taxing. And that's part of why I stopped. But playing your music live on stage is very fun.

 

If the clubs want to hear you or know of you first, get involved in the music community. Frequent the venues you want to play at. Get to know the sound guy, bookie, bar tenders, etc. But don't try to sell yourself to them. Just be real. Then when you do get a band going, you have a much better shot at playing there.

 

A demo always helps. And reviews from local mags always help too.

 

Bottom line, 29 is young. Especially for local bands. Since you clearly know that rockstarism is an affliction, feck that and have fun.

[58flame]

Definitely not too old.

 

My advise would be to start making some friends in the business. Maybe get a job in the local roadie union (if you live near a major city), do some setups and tear downs, and meet some people. You'd be surprised who the people in your local community know. And, local roadie work usually pays pretty well as an added bonus.

 

I don't care how good a musician you are, if you make the right friends, it can help you a lot.

 

Get out there, meet some people, and do your best. Stop worrying if you are too old. Because you are not. And remember to always be yourself.

 

Unless you are a tool, then try to be somebody else. LOL

 

Good luck to you!!

[Franz Schiller]

 

I've wasted the last 10 years myself waiting around on other jacklegs around here to figure out whether they cared enough to just show up and play. It's a process, and the quicker you can find someone who has the same ideas and work ethic as you do, the better your chances of success are.

 

 

That particular point is resonating heavily with me right now. I've been the lead guy in a band for about five years now. I am now 32, but my bandmates are in their late 20s. And though while they seem cool about getting to band practice, and shows...

 

....they aren't nearly as obsessed as I am. I am consumed with playing and writing, working on new material, and recording and getting shows. They don't even practice their instruments at home.

 

Since they've become engaged, and married, things have become worse. The wives get irritated with the show commitments and practice.

 

I actually like a lot of the creative work we do, although I often must fight to get them to try weird & wild new things.

 

The hairy part, is that our lives have all become very tied together. We're all really really good friends, and our girlfriend/wives are all really good friends, and I really love those dudes.

 

So at the start, my bandmates saw being in a band as a "cool" thing to do, while it was the center of my being (sorry about being cheezy). Now, it's an ancillary part of their life, while it's still the center of my being. AND I'm getting older faster.

 

I've been resenting their lack of work & enthusiasm for a while now, and have seriously thought about jumping ship. Its tough, though, because it would be like a divorce. There's band gear, the practice space we rent together, and finally all the friendship ties.

 

Sigh. I've been stewing on this for a while. Anyone have with any thoughts?

[Nijyo]

 

Since they've become engaged, and married, things have become worse. The wives get irritated with the show commitments and practice.

 

 

This happens a lot, not just with bands. I've observed that a lot of folks, after high school/college are just "killing time" until they find someone to get married to and have their 2.5 kids + dog.

 

As with many things, some people find an activity to be a hobby, whereas others find it to be a calling, and no matter what they try, they always come back to it in the end -- be it golf, writing, painting, music, chess, etc.

 

Sounds to me like, maybe, you need to have a talk to the band about it being a hobby band that is fun for them, but second banana for you, and have a "main" band with folks who are of like minds.

 

Just my $.02

[T. Alan Smith]

 

Guys, I don't know what to do here. Any advice?

 

 

yEAH. Do what the hell you want. Seriously. If you want to play music, play music. Simple as that. Who's stopping you? If you want to share your music w/people. Do it. What's stopping you? Actually ask yourself those questions. Go so far as to write down the answers as an excercise. What maturity should have taught you was that music is about self expression thru ideals(religious, political, sexual, etc...). The social networking your looking for is a very distant 2nd at best. If being 29 isn't your "youthful ideal", you have the freedom to do something about it. You have to change your paradigm before you can begin to change the masses paradigm of "youthful ideal."

I would give serious re-consideration to your attitude on being in a cover band, as it will challenge you, thereby forcing you to grow and become a deeper performing artist...which is what your aspiring to be??

I totally know where your coming from with regards to feeling "too awkward, or untalented, or dorky" in situations, but get over it if you want to be a performer. You roll with it. You grow because of it. Also, like you, I've struggled with depression, ADHD, and major self esteem issues. But the fact of the matter is this-

they're crutches.

Get that into your head. Deal with it. Then move on toward your goal.

That's what successful people do. I didn't see it when I was 19. I didn't see enough of it when I was 29. But I've been enveloped in it since and I finally "get it" at 39. After a hiatus, I started from scratch, making music for my self expression. Otherwise, I'd have exploded. As it turns out, other people told me they wanted me to share it. So, I do. Get your act together. Do it for the right reasons. Let others decide when it's time to move up to the next rung of the ladder. Until then, continue doing the right thing. If your soul is telling you to make music. Make music for your soul.

[arcaneaether]

That's great advice, some good points made there.

[rockerdiva]

Only read the first post, but man, just keep writing. Perform ,if you want too. If it moves you. Keep learning. Hopefuly it will move somebody else. You may have to change your expectation if it is fame you seek, but for gosh sakes don't worry about what anyone else thinks.

 

What floors me is how a 29 year old person could possibly feel too "old" to do anything, much less choose "TooOldToRock" as their avatar. Then again, we are worlds apart in our thinking.

 

I LOVE doing covers! Started playing at age 13. Didn't start playing in front of people until age 23 and I was PETRIFIED to do so! Kept at it, made a name for myself and played many gigs.

 

Didn't start really writing songs until age 30. Hated them! Then gave up on trying to please other people and began to value what I had written. At age 39 I put out an original CD I was very very proud of. Won a few local awards, sold a lot of them.

 

At age 44 after having played solo for 22 years I put together my first rock band! I am having a blast! I am 45 years old and I feel like my musical life has only just begun! Like, just this minute started to get really, REALLY interesting ...

 

I'm just saying. Maybe you aren't as old as you think.

[lfbray]

Thank you for your post, cause I'm 32 and I have similar doubts and concerns.

But hey, I'm a consultant, and sometimes I have to make presentations to boards, talk for two hours, or guive classes in universities etc. I also makes me very nervous but everytime you do one, the next one is easier!

 

Also, work and practice alot on music because lot of insecurity in live perfomances comes from technical insecurity. YOu might not want to play in a cover band, but if you have a band, or play solo, you should practice covers. I always say that nothing guives you a greater technical confidence than cover diferent artists, songs... it's another way to listen to music, you really get inside it and understand it as a band. You can also be creative in the way you recreate covers. And chose covers that you actually like. I'm sure theres music out there that expresses what you feel or what you would like to do

good luck!

[soundwave106]

 

A problem with this is that locally the places that are most friendly to beginning musicians have adopted "originals only" policies because they don't want to pay for the licensing.

 

 

Now that's just cheap. I think that the annual license fees for all three don't amount to more than a few thousand bucks. I guess I'm lucky that the hole-in-a-wall, we'll-book-anyone places around here prominently and proudly display their ASCAP / BMI / SESAC stickers at the front door.

[Nijyo]

 

Your typical pop, with its heavy dependence on image, is like that. That also makes the most money. I would *not* say that this is the case for some more adult-oriented genres (take blues for instance), or especially "chops" oriented genres like jazz.

 

 

I suspect (from my own, narrow experience, mind you) that in non-"mainstream pop" genres, the age range that you can have some measure of success in is far larger than in said "mainstream pop" genres. My own real area of focus is hard rock/metal, and while its hard to say definitively due to the relative newness of metal/hard rock in terms of musical genres, it seems to me that they're very accepting of older upstarts so long as you have the chops and the songs.

[cl516]

i'm 28, and the only time i start to feel old is when the supposed 'normal' folk around me tell me it's time get married, have kids, get a mortgage, etc. then i see the ones who actually are settled down and they look miserable. so i certainly hope 29 isn't too old cuz i'm a year away.

[Surrealistic]

Just an aside but being married and having kids does not have to make you miserable.

 

Back on topic: I recall feeling older in my late twenties than I do now (I'm, well, I'm not in my twenties anymore, thirties either). It's all a state of mind. When you (or I, anyway ) think about it, it makes no sense whatsoever that age should play any part in the process.

[MaxKincaide]

It's basically the issue of image in terms of age. Mainstream music sells to younger audiences, and mainstream pop music sells to younger audiences as well, with a great deal, if not most, of their audience being made up of young girls. So, if you stop to think about it, you could still pull off being a mainstream pop artist at 29...you just have to look the part. Getting into mid to late 30's is a tougher act to pull off, but again, looking the part is key.

 

Going into the thing with the wife and kids for a moment...I'm 27, married and have twin girls, almost 5 months old now. There are quite a few days that I honestly do feel old, but it's not due to my age. I'm not in a band currently, so I basically go to work, come home, and do the family thing...which isn't a bad thing at all, but when you're used to hanging out with your band buddies on the weekends, playing shows, and having a grand ol' time, slowing things down is a huge adjustment.

 

That is certainly not to say that I couldn't be in another band and make that work. The key to that is finding people who are either understanding and accepting of your family situation, or finding people who are in a similar situation as you. Sure, it's not an easy thing to find all the time, but it's definitely not impossible.

 

This part has been addressed in another thread quite a bit, but having a family and trying to have a band that could possibly tour can be a hard thing to figure out. It's something that you have to come to an agreement with your wife and children, and you have to be ok with yourself as well.

 

For me, I'm lucky enough to be in a situation where my wife wants me to be able to tour and be as successful as I can be in a band, and is understanding of the fact that touring can take a while. But, that being said, from my viewpoint, for me, I wouldn't want to be gone for a super long period of time.

 

There are bands that tour for years, and that's not what I want to be. But there are bands that tour for 3 or 4 months at a time, which is something I find that I would be more willing to do. But even then, there would have to be a huge, huge reason to go on tour...meaning that it would have then, at that point, become our main source of income, and I no longer have to work a day job to support my family.

 

It's different for each person, though, as far as their circumstances, how they feel about leaving their family for a period of time, how their familiies feel about them leaving, and their ability to do so. There is no right or wrong answer.

 

And, in that aspect, age can certainly make a difference. It's not about your age in number of years, though, it's more about age in regards to experience, tollerance, and knowledge. I've never been on a real tour, but I've traveled a bit in my time, and I can say from experience there that living out of a suitcase sucks. It's all a give and take, though. While living out of a suitcase sucks, playing on stage in front of people that honestly love to hear your music is one of the greatest feelings in the world. It's all about how you weigh one against the other in terms of worth.

 

But, I've strayed quite a bit off topic here, so I appologize for that, and I certainly do NOT want to spawn another touring-while-you-have-a-family thread. But it all goes to the basic point that I'm making here: there are limits to what you can and cannot achieve...but it's in your control as to how you can stay within those limits.

[Surrealistic]

... in that aspect, age can certainly make a difference. It's not about your age in number of years, though, it's more about age in regards to experience, tollerance, and knowledge. I've never been on a real tour, but I've traveled a bit in my time, and I can say from experience there that living out of a suitcase sucks.

Yeah you've got me there. I really don't like slumming it these days - like my little luxuries

[azmyth]

I'm in a band with Max Kincaide.

 

I'm the singer/guitarist

 

I JUST turned 28 last week.

 

I've been contemplating this very same thing for quite some time...

 

"Am I too old?"

 

Then I got to thinking about that question, and the answer I came to was ...

 

"YES!"

 

I am too old...

 

but, not to play music. Just the specific type of music my band was playing.

 

The type of stuff we were playing only appeals to 1 group, and a very young group at that. I like to mingle with the audience and talk to people in the crowd before and after our set. But at our shows I found that I was out of place, because the average age was 12-15 and here I was 26 at the time. I'd try to talk to them, but the only thing they understood was World of Warcraft, and MTV reality shows. That got old fast.

 

Sure, I liked playing the kind of music we were playing. But, I'm not a one trick pony. I don't only like that kind of music. I like many different types of music, and this was what set me and maxkincaide apart from every other musician in every other band we played with. They were all very young, and while some of them were good. It was just the "lets start a band and copy whats popular, so people will like us" syndrome. I finally realized, that if I wanted to enjoy myself as a musician I had to start playing "my age" without playing "my age". Noone wants to be old, and heck 28 is far from that. But, I realized that if I wanted to be taken seriously, I needed to play music that 28 year olds listen to.. if i wanted to have those people at shows. That also meant breaking down, and playing covers.

 

Our band is starting to take off again, although in a pretty huge direction change. I'm glad, and happy about it. Music will be about music again, and not whether or not my hair is swooped the right way or if my pants are tight enough.

 

As far as 29 being too old. As long as you don't want to be the next american idol or pop equivalent.. you should be fine.

 

Might I remind you.. that the lead singer from 30 seconds to mars is 39 (although he was already successful in other areas of entertainment). I would also remind you that the MTV posterboys "My chemical Romance" when they got signed the singer was 31 years old. He doesn't look it however, and he eats up the underage girls all day long. (I can't stand them by the way). I know plenty of other bands, who maybe didn't start young.. who still are going strong at a late age. I don't see why the opposite couldn't be true. You just have to work a whole lot harder in a shorter span of time.

 

And, with the model being so different now than it was back then when most of our idols "made it". Making it, and being successful really has a whole new definition than it did then. Its not so one dimensional now. You need to decide what level of success you want to reach, and don't forget that there are more avenues than just getting "signed" to be be considered a success. songwriting, getting your music on feature film/tv, playing in a band, recording bands, there are alot of ways to get your music out there. I want my band to do things ourselves. I think we will be more successful in our situation the longer we hold the cards. There would have to be a whole lot of money on the table for me to sign my life away to a record label. a few months on MTV is not worth it.

 

I have a previous band mate who is in a band signed to a major label. They've had 2 videos on MTV/fuse and they play the typical screamy/emo rock stuff that the kids like now. When they got signed, I gave them 6 months to a year before they were replaced. They've been going strong for a while.. but just as I guessed.. the new thing is already replacing them. Their music is too subgenre niched to have any lasting staying power. There's a reason why the rolling stones, aerosmith, and such are still around. The music is almost universal, and they "change" when they need to to fit the needs of this musical generation. I would note the guitarist for my friends band is older than me.. and was older than me when they got signed..

 

Its not impossible. But, I will tell you.. they are not rich, and they are not living in luxury. They live in a van, and cheap apartments when they are not touring. The labels take everything. They get to see boobs and sign autographs at the BIG shows.. they play.. but thats about it.

[soundwave106]

 

I suspect (from my own, narrow experience, mind you) that in non-"mainstream pop" genres, the age range that you can have some measure of success in is far larger than in said "mainstream pop" genres. My own real area of focus is hard rock/metal, and while its hard to say definitively due to the relative newness of metal/hard rock in terms of musical genres, it seems to me that they're very accepting of older upstarts so long as you have the chops and the songs.

 

 

Absolutely true from what I see. I also know of quite a few indie bands that got the ball rolling with thirtysomething members (indie fans don't care as long as the music is good). Same with electronic dance (with its decreased emphasis on image).

[Poker99]

Its not impossible. But, I will tell you.. they are not rich, and they are not living in luxury. They live in a van, and cheap apartments when they are not touring. The labels take everything. They get to see boobs and sign autographs at the BIG shows.. they play.. but thats about it.

 

The rock star life in 2009

[azmyth]

The rock star life in 2009

 

the sad part is.. most people think getting signed to a major label means you get a bus vs. a van and a huge rockstar pad vs. a trashy apt.

 

It just doesn't work that way.

 

not anymore.

[Nijyo]

 

the sad part is.. most people think getting signed to a major label means you get a bus vs. a van and a huge rockstar pad vs. a trashy apt. It just doesn't work that way. not anymore.

 

 

I'm pretty sure that it never did during/after your first album on a major label. There's exceptions, but many first albums from now-famous artists didn't make them rich (but sold better later).