Is 29 too old to start from the bottom?

[Tele-vania65000]

 

I don't plan to make a career of this, but I would like to at least be liked by some people ( my wildest dream is to be regarded as one of those semi-obscure geniuses you discover by digging into the music you love ).

 

 

Uh-oh.

[TooOldToRock]

I agree that you should go for it, and I agree that getting your songs down in the simplest forms that you can play by yourself would be a good start. But you did say some thins that are 'red flag' issues, to me anyway, in wanting to play with other people. Perhaps you could clarify. "I never fit in with the local music scenes here and still don't. " What do you mean by this? Personality issues, or no one plays what you like? In any case, you aren't likely to get very far until you can fit in at some level. "My lone experiences trying to play music with other people consist of an atrocious audition for a friends' band when they needed a fill in on bass and one terrible jam session I put together with a few friends a couple years' later. " This is going to put you at a disadvantage, especially in light of this: "I don't want to be in a cover band. I don't want to play a specific style of music that's popular at the moment. I don't see the stuff I've written appealing to the local bar crowds who just want to hear good party music." No offense meant, but someone in your position, with no experience, no connections, and no track record of having had any success doing your own material with any band, much less your own, is going to have a hard time setting the terms with other players. "I don't plan to make a career of this, but I would like to at least be liked by some people " Maybe I'm reading this wrong, so take it with a grain of salt, but this sounds a little bit desperate. Everyone wants to be liked, but if you're relying on music to make people like you, it probably won't happen. Especially if you're philosophically opposed to giving people what they want to hear, know what I mean? In a perfect world, it's be wonderful if people just loved our original stuff from the get go, but it just doesn't happen that way, at least extremely rarely. You have picked a field where people instantly judge you as to whether you are any good or not, as to whether they lke you or not, and whether they will accept you or reject you. It is not for the faint hearted or easily crushed spirit, which judging by your post, you seem to have. Audiences can sense desperation, and if you come off as "please, please like me!", it'll feel like they're coming at you like a pack of wild dogs at some point. For people with poor self esteem, even a mild comment from a heckler can ruin your whole week. You have to have a thick skin and a belief in yourself to survive the music biz. And other musicians can certainly sense emotional neediness, and quite frankly, a lot of people are turned off by it. Maybe you should consider first doing a solo, getting your songs on a disc, then joining another band and getting comfortable playing with other people first, learn how to work a crowd, learn how to run a band, and so on. Introduce your songs to them after you've been doing theirs for awhile. I'm not saying you should give up on the dream just yet, but the way you want to go about it (from what you've described) seems like a recipe for failure, which won't help your self esteem issues any. Maybe I'm wrong in my interpretation about what you're saying here. If so, disregard everything I've said.

 

I have no issue with being in a band who plays covers--I WANT to play some well known covers to get people interested in what we're doing. I just don't want to be in a band that only covers styles of music I'm not into. I am definitely NOT philosophically opposed to giving people what they want. It's just that what I want to give them, no other local band (or club) seems interested in playing. Maybe this is really an opportunity, and the local bands and club owners have got it all wrong. Guess there's only one way to find out.

 

A problem with this is that locally the places that are most friendly to beginning musicians have adopted "originals only" policies because they don't want to pay for the licensing. This all started when a nearby club was put out of business with a lawsuit a few years back--had to pay over $30k in royalties and damages, IIRC, and it really scared a lot of club owners. One club will actually cut the PA off mid-song if you start playing a cover. I'm in a smaller city, so there are really only about a dozen places to play in a 50 mile radius, and all but 4 of those want to have heard of you before they book you.

 

Finding people around here who have the same tastes as me is the big issue: our latest thing in the local scene is computerized industrial noise that I just can't get into. After that it's death metal, kitschy punkabilly, jam bands, and folksy stuff. I like some of that, but would feel out of place in those bands. Plus, I don't have the chops for a jam band, anyway. I'm also too old to know the kids who set up punk shows in basements. I have no problems playing for them, but I'm out of the loop there. I have learned that I need to relax on the people I trust to play music with.

 

As for dictating to a bunch of guys what I want done, that wasn't the intention. I just felt that the stuff I'd written was probably my strongest contribution because I don't think much of myself as a technical musician or a singer. Since no one else suggested any songs to play, I figured "well, might as well see if we can do anything with these" since they'd seen them before on paper and said nice things. I'm a laid back personality who likes to collaborate with others. I want their input. Actually, I need it to cover for my own weaknesses as a musician.

 

In my ideal scenario, which I don't put must stock in happening, I'd get together with 3 or 4 other guys, we'd share songwriting duties, play a live set that would start out at least 50% covers (mostly well known, with a few more obscure), then gradually expand that to include more of our own stuff. Record some stuff for myspace, then if things work out, we'd play nearby cities within a day's drive or so, which would cover pretty much the entire eastern US.

 

I'm not getting into this so people will like me. I'm getting into it because I like music. I just hope some people "get" what we're doing. That's all. Nobody wants to play in a band that nobody likes.

[TooOldToRock]

Thanks to everyone for the feedback here. I guess if I do miraculously become "the next big thing" (which I put about as much faith in as miraculously developing superpowers or winning the lottery), I can always lie about my age. Works for plenty of rappers

[MaxKincaide]

I can always lie about my age. Works for plenty of rappers

 

You can lie about quite a few things to get where you want to go, actually...

 

Take into consideration that I'm clueless about rap, but the only reason I know this info is because this particular dude is from my neck of the woods...the rapper Young Jeezy claims that he's from Atlanta, or "Tha ATL" as it's so lovingly referred to. But, it's a little known fact that he's actually from a small town called Hawkinsville. About a year before he blew up all famous and what-not, he used to come in to the local music store here in the town that I live in and put up fliers for his CD's he was selling. I've actually talked to the guy about doing some guitar tracks for him before he got "picked up" as the term goes in hip-hop. He always says he's from Atlanta, though.

 

It's not just age, man. You can mold yourself to be anything you think you need to be in order to put your name out there. That's the cool thing about the music business...it's not like they're going to do a background check on you or anything. If you can pull off looking like you're 23 but you're really 29, tell whoever asks you that you're 25. If you think you'll get farther by telling people you're from a larger city, what's it going to hurt? Tell people you used to be a spy if you think that would help...or maybe even a ninja. Whatever can get you noticed but not hurt your credibility.

 

Of course, you can't lie about EVERYTHING, like saying that you have HUGE contacts in the industry or something, and then you can't back it up. But you get the drift.

[English Bob]

I just turned 56, and I joined a new band at Easter. Our drummer is still at uni, our singer isn't saying.

 

My suggestion: get yourself a new screen name. Something like NeverTooOldToRock.

[oolceeoo]

Some of us ain't got nothing but music to live for. Some of us are literally the walking dead until we strap on that guitar and sing. Some of us see the steep uphill battle with the competition not only with other musicians, but now with computers and iPods that can play a song perfectly on command for anyone. The only time we can get our heads above the rising water is when we play.

 

"Music is the brandy of the damned." I once read. And it is true. I and many others took the irrevocable oath and signed the non-negotiable contract. You want to serve the puppet master do ya? The one who commands you to play even when the flesh is unwilling? The one who grants freedom ONLY when you play? The one who makes you bleed, who makes you cry, who makes you sweat because you can't put the damned instrument down even if you try?

 

Think long and hard about this, it sounds to me like you have other things in life that give you freedom, which is great. "Making it" is losing it, "getting there" is no where. The Muse takes no prisoners.

[Nijyo]

Shave your head and noone will notice the bald spot . Go for it, foo!

 

If it works for Satch and Kerry King, it can work for you!

 

(I also do this)

[Poker99]

 

It's not just age, man. You can mold yourself to be anything you think you need to be in order to put your name out there. That's the cool thing about the music business...it's not like they're going to do a background check on you or anything. If you can pull off looking like you're 23 but you're really 29, tell whoever asks you that you're 25. If you think you'll get farther by telling people you're from a larger city, what's it going to hurt? Tell people you used to be a spy if you think that would help...or maybe even a ninja. Whatever can get you noticed but not hurt your credibility.

 

 

I would hate to play those little games. I'm not saying I will never do it, but once you start that road...

[HCarlH]

The successful people in life don't care what others think...they just get on with what they want to do.

 

Those other people will never achieve greatness.

 

29 is REALLY YOUNG....for anything.

 

Do what you want to do on your terms and forget the naysayers.

[MaxKincaide]

 

I would hate to play those little games. I'm not saying I will never do it, but once you start that road...

 

 

I definitely agree. I'm not saying I would do it either...turns into a big lie fest...I guess I should have put in that post that I don't advise doing that.

 

I'm just pointing out it's a possibility.

[Nijyo]

 

I definitely agree. I'm not saying I would do it either...turns into a big lie fest...I guess I should have put in that post that I don't advise doing that. I'm just pointing out it's a possibility.

 

 

It's worth noting, as well, that while pop- pretty much require youth and marketability-to-13-year-olds in order to get anywhere (much less make it big), there's a whole lot of genres where age isn't a dis-qualifier to be considered a viable band.

[ModernSaloon]

I don't want to sound too pessimistic, and I agree with most of what has been written on this thread. But: do you have CHOPS? The better you play and/or sing and/or compose, the easier will be for you find a band.

 

After a certain age attitude alone just doesn't cut it -- at least that is my (bitter) experience.

 

And, I'm out of the loop myself, but I suspect lyrics writing is not a very in-demand skill these days either.

[slight-return]

 

It's worth noting, as well, that while pop- pretty much require youth and marketability-to-13-year-olds in order to get anywhere (much less make it big), there's a whole lot of genres where age isn't a dis-qualifier to be considered a viable band.

 

 

man, statement like this irk the {censored} out of me

 

I mean here we have an informative thread that matured enough to get to the core of the matter -- me touching Taylor Swift's booblets

and then you bring up this stuff.

Can we please stay on topic?!?

[Nijyo]

man, statement like this irk the shit out of me I mean here we have an informative thread that matured enough to get to the core of the matter -- me touching Taylor Swift's booblets and then you bring up this stuff. Can we please stay on topic?!?

 

My bad, my bad. Here's a $5 gift certificate to Hot Topic to make it up to you.

[Silent Heart]

 

Some of us ain't got nothing but music to live for. Some of us are literally the walking dead until we strap on that guitar and sing. Some of us see the steep uphill battle with the competition not only with other musicians, but now with computers and iPods that can play a song perfectly on command for anyone. The only time we can get our heads above the rising water is when we play. "Music is the brandy of the damned." I once read. And it is true. I and many others took the irrevocable oath and signed the non-negotiable contract. You want to serve the puppet master do ya? The one who commands you to play even when the flesh is unwilling? The one who grants freedom ONLY when you play? The one who makes you bleed, who makes you cry, who makes you sweat because you can't put the damned instrument down even if you try? Think long and hard about this, it sounds to me like you have other things in life that give you freedom, which is great. "Making it" is losing it, "getting there" is no where. The Muse takes no prisoners.

 

 

If your music is half as intense as that post, I will buy every CD you've ever made. Got any links?

[oolceeoo]

Sure, recorded these a while back:

 

myspace.com/liamcoleman1

[Adrienne Osborn]

You got a dream? You better start chasing it now. It won't let you go, ever, if it's real.

 

And like many others have already pointed out, 29 is NOT old.

 

Learn not only music but also music business. There are now niches you couldn't access before. A local musician I know is big in South Korea, of all places.

 

I have really only gotten going seriously in music in the last few years. After I turned 30, that is. If you dig deep and figure out WHAT it is you really want - and if what you REALLY want can be fulfilled by playing music - DO IT, and DO IT NOW.

 

I make a lot less money now than when I was a software developer, but I am 100 times happier. I'm now trading the precious hours of my life for something that feels meaningful and real. You never get time back.

[miimusic]

I just read the whole thread - so I get that you don't necessarily want to make it big. That said, and for anyone else reading who is in your situation....

 

In my experience, if you're looking for the traditional deal, unles you're exceptional, age is a factor for the dimwits at record companies. If you have a clutch of hit songs and something unique about your story, then you might be given a chance, but every year past mid-twenties makes that harder. However, that's not the only route these days.

 

It is entirely feasible to cut it and be very successful following the DIY route. I won't go into detail - just go and check out Corey Smith - http://www.coreysmith.com/about.cfm

 

He even shaved his head to hide the bald spot as someone suggested here. He did $4million in sales last year, all on his own. But, then, he is a very good songwriter and performer.

[bostonwal]

Do what you want and don't let life walk all over you.

[miimusic]

Well said!

[satannica]

I'm the opposite. I'm 27 and keep getting asked to join bands. But I only want to play metal and I refuse to comprimise and play music I don't like.

 

It's proven nigh on impossible to hold a metal line up together for me I have no idea why. I pushed out about 300 Cd-rs of a few of my tracks and near on everyone sent mails asking for a full CD, not just mates I knew, but people I randomly handed stuff to at clubs and that. I have two full albums of very intricate black metal sitting on my hard disk ready to go. The few that have heard it have demanded copies, so I know it's good {censored}. But I'm the kind that if I can't do it properly, I'd rather delete the {censored}ing lot.

 

Holding a line up together is just stupidly hard and I would rather never play in a band again than to comprimise and play {censored}ing indie. Just so many unreliable pricks around and people who just don't have the ability past playing standard open chords.

 

It's been frustrating!

 

Stick at it. It's not worth comprimising for anything. I did it for a few years and ended up hating playing guitar full stop.

[MaxKincaide]

 

I'm the opposite. I'm 27 and keep getting asked to join bands. But I only want to play metal and I refuse to comprimise and play music I don't like. It's proven nigh on impossible to hold a metal line up together for me I have no idea why. I pushed out about 300 Cd-rs of a few of my tracks and near on everyone sent mails asking for a full CD, not just mates I knew, but people I randomly handed stuff to at clubs and that. I have two full albums of very intricate black metal sitting on my hard disk ready to go. The few that have heard it have demanded copies, so I know it's good {censored}. But I'm the kind that if I can't do it properly, I'd rather delete the {censored}ing lot. Holding a line up together is just stupidly hard and I would rather never play in a band again than to comprimise and play {censored}ing indie. Just so many unreliable pricks around and people who just don't have the ability past playing standard open chords. It's been frustrating! Stick at it. It's not worth comprimising for anything. I did it for a few years and ended up hating playing guitar full stop.

 

 

Being in a band is actually all about compromise. That doesn't mean that you have to totally give up your principals in order to hold a lineup together.

 

It sounds like you know what you want and you need a serious band to go after it. I know exactly how that is. I have a ton of material written as well, just in a different genre. But there's a difference in knowing what you want and demanding that everything be the way you want it to be. I wouldn't expect anyone who would play in a band with me to play the songs that I have written note for note. That's part of the beauty of playing with other musicians, is to have extra input to the material you come up with. If that's what you're talking about not compromising on, then it's no wonder you can't hold a lineup together.

 

But, I think what you're referring to here is that the musicians that you get involved with that play the style of music you want to play are all pretty much bums. Welcome to the music industry! Every genre is oversaturated with bands and musicians that want to "make it"...and they may even have the chops to "make it"...but they'll never put the effort into making a band work. Musicians have this skewed idea that fame and fortune falls into your lap while you play at dive bars. Once they start to realize that there's more work to be done in a band than just booking 2 or 3 shows here or there, they bail out quicker than J.Lo bailed on her first 12 husbands.

 

That, to me, is where age is going to play a huge factor in what you can and cannot achieve. The older you get, the less time you have to waste on people who tell you what you want to hear but don't deliver. It's not that it's impossible to break into the music industry with a bang at 35 years old, but the chances start diminishing rapidly with every year simply because of bad band choices. I've wasted the last 10 years myself waiting around on other jacklegs around here to figure out whether they cared enough to just show up and play. It's a process, and the quicker you can find someone who has the same ideas and work ethic as you do, the better your chances of success are.

 

As far as the compromising thing goes, I would say this: it depends on what you want more out of a career in music as to how far you should be willing to compromise. If your goal is to "make it", you need to be willing to compromise a great deal in terms of what you play...because you're not actually playing music that is targeted mostly to your own enjoyment, you have to keep in mind what the majority of the public wants to hear in order to become as popular as you can.

 

On the other hand, if you're less concerned with "making it" as you are just playing for a living and enjoying what you do, then you can afford to stand firm on what you want to play alot more.

 

If you're into playing black metal, but you don't really care if you become some huge rockstar or not, then yeah, don't settle for playing indie. But if your goal is to become a huge star, then you have to give the public more of what they want and less of what you think you should be able to play.

[satannica]

I see that! And I know how it reads simply because I've heard plenty others say the same thing.

 

I'm perfectly willing to comprimise. The "written music" I've always viewed as a basis. I've never told anyone they have to play something note for note or they're out. But it really is an uphill struggle to get anyone playing anything heavier than fecking Guns n Roses these days, unless it's some random noodling bollocks with the word 'core attached to the end of it. I just see that as an excuse to play any random bollocks.

 

But if I'm really honest and if I want to be big headed, I'm a good player. I practise, I studied music to degree level, I've spent my formative years studying structure, instruments as a whole (I also play piano, saxaphone and I'm a pretty accomplished flutist if I may be so bold).

 

Therefore I have been asked a number of times to play for bands. But if the music is the same old {censored} that just plain annoys me, I wouldn't give it the time of day. Why would I?

 

At the end of the day, I'm just a bit frustrated because like you say, it's older you get, not younger. One day, I could have kids and then it's definately over. I have plenty of the "right" contacts and I can put the effort in now to get something somewhere. It's just a piss not to be able to have a stable and reliable line up! Not a lineup of monkeys, but musicians who really want to contribute creatively and don't have the ego of Liam Gallagher.

 

It's amazing!

[MaxKincaide]

 

I see that! And I know how it reads simply because I've heard plenty others say the same thing. I'm perfectly willing to comprimise. The "written music" I've always viewed as a basis. I've never told anyone they have to play something note for note or they're out. But it really is an uphill struggle to get anyone playing anything heavier than fecking Guns n Roses these days, unless it's some random noodling bollocks with the word 'core attached to the end of it. I just see that as an excuse to play any random bollocks. But if I'm really honest and if I want to be big headed, I'm a good player. I practise, I studied music to degree level, I've spent my formative years studying structure, instruments as a whole (I also play piano, saxaphone and I'm a pretty accomplished flutist if I may be so bold). Therefore I have been asked a number of times to play for bands. But if the music is the same old {censored} that just plain annoys me, I wouldn't give it the time of day. Why would I? At the end of the day, I'm just a bit frustrated because like you say, it's older you get, not younger. One day, I could have kids and then it's definately over. I have plenty of the "right" contacts and I can put the effort in now to get something somewhere. It's just a piss not to be able to have a stable and reliable line up! Not a lineup of monkeys, but musicians who really want to contribute creatively and don't have the ego of Liam Gallagher. It's amazing!

 

 

Well, I'm assuming you live across the pond from me, otherwise I would totally hit you up as far as playing in a band, although I'm not into black metal, so it would probably not be for the best in that regards, sadly. I'm in the exact same boat as you, in regards to skill level and not being able to find anyone who really gives a damn.

 

I do have kids, but I also have a wife who is more like a member of the band than I am. My whole family is involved in this stuff...that's how seriously I take it. And yet, here I sit, still working my day job, because I can't find anyone willing to at the very least show up and play their instrument. Crazy, ain't it?

 

The truth is, there are quite a few variables that lead to being a successful musician, and age can be one of them...if you allow it. Get your feet wet, learn from your mistakes, and keep moving forward.

[satannica]

Absolutely! Thing is over here drummers are a rarity, especially those with any skill. Most are 15 year old "punk" drummers and most are old men who want to get paid in function bands, weddings and that sort of jazz.

 

If I had Simon Cowell's money, I'd take my ass to scandinavia and Idol it up!

 

When you do actually find a drummer that can at least double kick and keep it going for more than 6 seconds, they get all obnoxious - I've even had a few who demanded they did not pay for rehersals and free beer!