Funny list for promoters, club owners, and good bands

[MaxKincaide]

I know this thread is getting old now, but I wanted to post in here again...

I think alot of the problem is the market. It's flooded with bands that are looking to get their "big break", but most of them are destined to fail from the start, and the only ones not able to see that are the people in the bands themselves. There are at least 20 of those kinds of bands just in a 100 mile radius of where I live.

Since there are such a large number of bands that are trying to "break out", bars and clubs get to reap the benefit. It's almost like a buffet for them...they can take their pick of bands that they think will bring them the most business without having to have any overhead involved.

Start up bands and bands that are trying to get their "big break" are trying to use the old model of success, where taking dive shows is part of the journey...but the problem is that they think they have to do it for free now....and that's because all of the other bands are doing it, and that's what the bars and dive shows have come to expect. It's all one big vicious cycle.

My take on it...

If you are in a band that you truly want to succeed, you have to make yourself seem bigger than you are...almost unattainable. You have a minimum price that you're willing to play for, and you won't negotiate below that. If a club/bar/venue isn't willing to pay you for your time, then they can certainly find another band that will be willing to play for little to nothing...but you can assure them that they won't see the same results from that band as they would with yours. That's not necessarily saying that you can guarantee a certain number at the door, but that's saying that your band is damn good and you know it. Playing there once will be enough to stir up a buzz to get people to come back and see you again.

The catch, of course, is that you damn well better be able to back all of that up.

I agree 100% with what Richard Mac said...if the band is playing somewhere that music is a secondary thing, then saying that you must draw "x" number of people is bull{censored}. They already have their customer base established, so it's not like they would be losing money if you didn't bring 33 people in with you at the door that all pay the $5 cover.

I think where the confusion lies there is that the goal is not ONLY to draw new people into the business, but to also provide entertainment to the people who would ALREADY be there. I think that's what alot of bands and club/bar owners get confused with...the owners tend to get greedy and want to expand their customer base., not thinking about the patrons who usually come in. I think they also forget that a band is not the only way to create a buzz about your business...it's one of the many ways that a place can advertise.

Bands tend to get into the same mentality...they start to think that it's all about the exposure. A large part of it is...hell, the ultimate goal of any band is to become as popular as they possibly can. The money follows the popularity and demand of the band. The problem is that popularity and demand are not free...a band has to spend money in order to play out and become popular. That money has to come from somewhere...and it only makes sense that the band be reimbursed for entertaining the crowd that it is in front of.

What bands don't seem to understand is that by following the pay to play mentality, they are strongly hurting their chances of becoming successful in the long run. If a band builds a reputation of playing for free, then they are going to have a much harder time charging for their services in the future...it may work with some places, but most of the time if the bands rep is fairly well known, so are their business practices.

Which leads me to my next point...bands are a business. The only exception is if the band does not intend on playing out anywhere other than their practice area...and even then, it could still be considered a business.

Here's the thing: if you were to operate your own car cleaning business...you ou may travel to the person's car or you may have them travel to you, but the constant is that you will clean their car. Why on earth would you do something like that for free?

The same thing applies to playing in a band: your band plays the local bar this Saturday night. You may or may not bring a crowd with you to the bar, but never-the-less, you are providing entertainment for the crowd THAT IS ALREADY THERE. Whether or not you bring new business to the bar is not the primary concern...your band is there to allow the people that are already buying drinks and hanging around to have an even better time by listening and enjoying your band play. It is a plus if you bring the bar extra business...and if you can guarantee that, then your band is worth more than the band down the street that is starting out, sure.

But the band just starting out is still providing the same initial service as the established band.

If you stop and think about it, the differences between your band and, let's say Aerosmith, is that they are:

1. More popular
2. More technically sound

Any other differences can really be summed into those 2 categories. And that's why they are a more successful band than your band...do you think that they would play at a local bar for free? I don't think they would. Granted, they would bring the bar a ton of business...but all they are ultimately doing is providing entertainment. Pure and simple.

[Poker99]

Great post...

"I think alot of the problem is the market. It's flooded with bands that are looking to get their "big break", but most of them are destined to fail from the start, and the only ones not able to see that are the people in the bands themselves. There are at least 20 of those kinds of bands just in a 100 mile radius of where I live."

More like 200.

[whiteop]

You forgot to add "Club owners that think it is a privilege just to let you play there and want you to audition for "free" only never to call you back ever again" because they are approached daily by so many bands that are desperate to get gigs that they will never have to pay them when they use this system.

[faileddrummer]

It started as a joke (a literal joke) and ended up as an interesting thread. I think the model of asking the band to sell X number of tickets and expecting the band to bring in X number of people is total bullsh*t for a bar. Take a few steps back and think about it. Pretend I operate a different type of establishment. Pretend that I operate, say, a small amusement park. And in an effort to increase the amount of people who pay to come into my park, I hire a magician. Do I tell the magician "You must bring 40 people into the park or I will be annoyed?" That's BS. Or a restaurant. I own a big BBQ place, with a pavilion out back. I get the idea to hire a band to increase my traffic. Do I expect the band to bring 40 people with them? No. You take any business that has a regular number of customers. They decide they want live music. What they decide to pay the act will determine the quality of acts they get. If they pay nothing, they're going to get singer/songwriters willing to work for a tip jar. If they pay $500, they can get a band. If they pay more, they can get a really good band that will probably attract a good amount of people depending on where the place is located. I'm talking about bars. A club that features live music... that's a different beast altogether. The music IS their draw. They HAVE to have groups that will attract fans. But the type of acts that go to huge clubs... do have fan bases. I saw Crowded House at a club in Buffalo. Great show, by the way. The club DOES expect the band to bring in fans, and the band does deliver. I think that's different.

 

 

I call bars clubs. They're basically one in the same around here. However, it is a glorified bar.

[faileddrummer]

Since it's become a deal about playing for free again, lets go to another business: Tanning beds.

They're a business also... There's one down my road that does free tanning. Yes, free, no catches. They haven't shut anybody down, nor have I heard anyone demand a different tanning bed place do free tanning as well. They do it for promotion. Same concept.

[MaxKincaide]

Since it's become a deal about playing for free again, lets go to another business: Tanning beds. They're a business also... There's one down my road that does free tanning. Yes, free, no catches. They haven't shut anybody down, nor have I heard anyone demand a different tanning bed place do free tanning as well. They do it for promotion. Same concept.

 

 

Do you work for free?

 

Same concept.

[MartinC]

+1000 And while we're at it, when did bar gigs become 'shows'? Kiss is a show. ZZ Top is a show. 4 guys from outside Hoboken or Butte, MT playing a sports bar, not so much.

 

 

 

 

That bugs me too. One take is that by calling it a "Show", and not a gig(which has always meant "job" to me), it sounds a lot less like "work" that one should be paid for. Four bands on a PtP bill ain't my idea of a show no matter the venue. But what the heck do I know about it. I guess they can call it whatever they want. I call it four bands getting hosed.

[Justaplayer]

This all sounds pretty rough. I hate the whole pay to play crap. I have never played for free in 25 years of playing as a pro. Sad that new bands have too, I would rather take my rig out on my lawn and burn it, than give some club owner free entertainment. Call me old fashioned.

[faileddrummer]

Do you work for free? Same concept.

 

 

Not really, seeing as my music is a hobby. If I depended on it as a job, I'd be broke and homeless. Put my playing for free wouldn't effect you. Which is my point.

[Poker99]

I play for free only when its a special show or if it has lots of exposure to new people. Its a case by case.

Most of the time we get paid, or we don't play. That's it that'S all.

[MaxKincaide]

Not really, seeing as my music is a hobby. If I depended on it as a job, I'd be broke and homeless. Put my playing for free wouldn't effect you. Which is my point.

 

 

It does effect me. I've had it happen before...trust me, I may as well be an expert on bands not getting paid.

 

The band I was just in had issues trying to get paid for anything. The reason was that none of the other bands in the area were asking for any kind of guarantee at all...they were all willing to play for free. Any of the venues we would ask about playing would say that we should EXPECT to play for free, simply because all they had to do was to message any of the other 434 bands in our area that were willing to play for free and ask them to play. Why should a bar expect to pay a band when the rest of the bands in the area are willing to do it for no pay at all?

 

Move on to the next venue...same story...unless we're willing to play for free, they don't have a slot for us.

 

What it boils down to is that there always have been and always will be more bands than bars. Used to, the way to beat your competition was to simply be a better band, have a slightly less guarantee, be more popular, or any combination of the three. Now, the best way to beat the competition out of playing at the bar you're wanting to play at is to play for free, and guarantee the owner that you can bring them more business than the other bands.

 

You are getting people to come into their bar and give them money, and you're not only not asking to be paid for that, but you are very spending money out of pocket to do so.

 

Whether you do it for a hobby or you want to be a serious musician, the impact is the same. I want to make my career music related. I want to earn money playing music onstage. How can I compete with someone who plays music as a hobby who is willing to do the same thing I'm trying to do for free?

 

Quite simply, I can't. If I'm a musician trying to become established, how do I go from playing bars and clubs for free to charging a guarantee to play?

 

If your band plays 10 times at the same bar, and each time you play you play for free, but you draw a larger and larger crowd each time, at what point do you decide that you should be getting paid for making the bar so much money? If you do decide to get paid, how do you tell the bar owner that you've just played 10 times for free that you are going to have to charge them for the 11th time?

 

I promise you, 9 times out of 10, their response is going to be "Well, I'll just have to look into booking another band that's willing to play for just the exposure, because my profit margin isn't large enough to afford to pay you for playing." Now, granted, you may get one or two owners that would be willing to pay you because you keep drawing a crowd, but those are few and far between. Most owners are out for their own business needs first, and ther business needs center around profit. If you ask to get paid, you are taking money away from that profit. Because you set yourself up to play for free and got the owner used to making a higher and higher profit, they are going to take some serious convincing to get them to take any money away from that profit.

 

To use your tanning bed post as an example:

 

Your neighbor down the road allows people to tan in their tanning bed for free...how many other tanning businesses are there in the area? I promise you that there aren't so many tanning businesses around that they are having to seriously compete with one another just to stay in business. If there were, say, 10 tanning salons in a 10 mile radius that holds 150 people who would be potential customers, the competition is greater than if there were only 2 or 3 businesses. Add into the mix a tanning salon that doesn't charge anything at all...the other tanning salons would not be able to compete with that.

 

It's simple supply and demand. With bands, the supply of bands is far, far greater than the demand for bands to play places. The bands have to sell themselves to the venues in order to stay in business. The problem now is that where the venues used to shop for bands based on quality first, they now shop for bands based on their price.

 

A good quality band is guaranteed to bring new patrons to the bar as well as to get the patrons inside the bar to keep buying drinks and spending money within the bar. Bar owners should expect to pay more for better quality bands.

 

What's happening now is that the standards have been lowered to the point that ANY band can play a show as long as their price is right...i.e free. Bands are duped into this by thinking that this is going to gain them exposure and popularity as a band, so they take the bait. So now the bars are used to having bands play for free, and know that if your band demands a charge, there are a gazillion other bands that are "hungry" enough to fill your slot for free.

 

So now we're stuck at bands that are starting out not getting paid, and as their reputation builds they continue to have to play for free, because that's the business model that they started out with from the get-go.

 

Your intentions don't even come into play in that equation. It doesn't matter if you're trying to become the next Nickelback or if you're just playing your music because you don't have anything else to do on a Saturday night...it's all the same, and it's all interconnected.

 

We're all in the same business, like it or not, no matter what your intentions are. And make no mistake...it is definitely a BUSINESS. That's why they call all of this the "music business"...that's why this forum is called the "Music Biz" forum...it's all a business. It just happens to be one that is more enjoyable than other businesses.

[Blackwatch]

It's interesting how this thread turned. You might check out this thread:http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2309441

It deals with the same thing.

And IMO you should never pay to play and you should never play for free unless it's an open mic. Because IMO open mic's are where you learn your stagecraft. And IMO you should never play for beer or food, unless it's for charity. Doing any of these things just makes it harder for musicians as a whole and debases the art of performing music, and it's hard enough already.

[faileddrummer]

It does effect me. I've had it happen before...trust me, I may as well be an expert on bands not getting paid. The band I was just in had issues trying to get paid for anything. The reason was that none of the other bands in the area were asking for any kind of guarantee at all...they were all willing to play for free. Any of the venues we would ask about playing would say that we should EXPECT to play for free, simply because all they had to do was to message any of the other 434 bands in our area that were willing to play for free and ask them to play. Why should a bar expect to pay a band when the rest of the bands in the area are willing to do it for no pay at all? Move on to the next venue...same story...unless we're willing to play for free, they don't have a slot for us. What it boils down to is that there always have been and always will be more bands than bars. Used to, the way to beat your competition was to simply be a better band, have a slightly less guarantee, be more popular, or any combination of the three. Now, the best way to beat the competition out of playing at the bar you're wanting to play at is to play for free, and guarantee the owner that you can bring them more business than the other bands. You are getting people to come into their bar and give them money, and you're not only not asking to be paid for that, but you are very spending money out of pocket to do so. Whether you do it for a hobby or you want to be a serious musician, the impact is the same. I want to make my career music related. I want to earn money playing music onstage. How can I compete with someone who plays music as a hobby who is willing to do the same thing I'm trying to do for free? Quite simply, I can't. If I'm a musician trying to become established, how do I go from playing bars and clubs for free to charging a guarantee to play? If your band plays 10 times at the same bar, and each time you play you play for free, but you draw a larger and larger crowd each time, at what point do you decide that you should be getting paid for making the bar so much money? If you do decide to get paid, how do you tell the bar owner that you've just played 10 times for free that you are going to have to charge them for the 11th time? I promise you, 9 times out of 10, their response is going to be "Well, I'll just have to look into booking another band that's willing to play for just the exposure, because my profit margin isn't large enough to afford to pay you for playing." Now, granted, you may get one or two owners that would be willing to pay you because you keep drawing a crowd, but those are few and far between. Most owners are out for their own business needs first, and ther business needs center around profit. If you ask to get paid, you are taking money away from that profit. Because you set yourself up to play for free and got the owner used to making a higher and higher profit, they are going to take some serious convincing to get them to take any money away from that profit. To use your tanning bed post as an example: Your neighbor down the road allows people to tan in their tanning bed for free...how many other tanning businesses are there in the area? I promise you that there aren't so many tanning businesses around that they are having to seriously compete with one another just to stay in business. If there were, say, 10 tanning salons in a 10 mile radius that holds 150 people who would be potential customers, the competition is greater than if there were only 2 or 3 businesses. Add into the mix a tanning salon that doesn't charge anything at all...the other tanning salons would not be able to compete with that. It's simple supply and demand. With bands, the supply of bands is far, far greater than the demand for bands to play places. The bands have to sell themselves to the venues in order to stay in business. The problem now is that where the venues used to shop for bands based on quality first, they now shop for bands based on their price. A good quality band is guaranteed to bring new patrons to the bar as well as to get the patrons inside the bar to keep buying drinks and spending money within the bar. Bar owners should expect to pay more for better quality bands. What's happening now is that the standards have been lowered to the point that ANY band can play a show as long as their price is right...i.e free. Bands are duped into this by thinking that this is going to gain them exposure and popularity as a band, so they take the bait. So now the bars are used to having bands play for free, and know that if your band demands a charge, there are a gazillion other bands that are "hungry" enough to fill your slot for free. So now we're stuck at bands that are starting out not getting paid, and as their reputation builds they continue to have to play for free, because that's the business model that they started out with from the get-go. Your intentions don't even come into play in that equation. It doesn't matter if you're trying to become the next Nickelback or if you're just playing your music because you don't have anything else to do on a Saturday night...it's all the same, and it's all interconnected. We're all in the same business, like it or not, no matter what your intentions are. And make no mistake...it is definitely a BUSINESS. That's why they call all of this the "music business"...that's why this forum is called the "Music Biz" forum...it's all a business. It just happens to be one that is more enjoyable than other businesses.

 

 

You should hold a seminar in your area.

[Justaplayer]

It's interesting how this thread turned. You might check out this thread: http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2309441 It deals with the same thing. And IMO you should never pay to play and you should never play for free unless it's an open mic. Because IMO open mic's are where you learn your stagecraft. And IMO you should never play for beer or food, unless it's for charity. Doing any of these things just makes it harder for musicians as a whole and debases the art of performing music, and it's hard enough already.

 

 

Exactly.

[roblavender]

It's interesting how this thread turned. You might check out this thread: http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2309441 It deals with the same thing. And IMO you should never pay to play and you should never play for free unless it's an open mic. Because IMO open mic's are where you learn your stagecraft. And IMO you should never play for beer or food, unless it's for charity. Doing any of these things just makes it harder for musicians as a whole and debases the art of performing music, and it's hard enough already.

 

 

 

I would say this guy is on the right track. I'd take it further though. Pay to play??? well it depends on #1: can this gig REALLY help you. IN the case of a pro showcase, yes it can, if you're ready for such a thing. Same withg some major festivals, everyone has to build a resume one way or the other. But paying to play to 150 or 200 people, well how does that help you?

 

Also an artist or band can self promoter their own shows, in which case you rent the venue for the night. You are in essence paying to play, but in this scenario you also keep the profits. This makes some sense. Most name acts get a guarantee and a percentage of ticket sales. The bigger the act the larger the guarantee, the less well known the act the smaller or no guarantee a simple concept right.

 

But playing for the door or for ticket sales can make you a lot more money than playing for a flat fee. The main question is what is the normal attendance at that venue?

 

Say a club has a normal Thursday night attendance of 400.. The door charge is $5.00… well $5.00 times 400 is $2,000.00 much better than many bands get for a Friday and Saturday night gig.

 

But every club and promoter has a turkey list that is filled with those willing to play for free or for gas and pizza. If you want a career in the music biz, stay off the turkey list.

 

Think like a businessman, after all that is what you are.

[MDLMUSIC]

I played a gig at one of the local dives a few weeks ago. It was a pretty small crowd, but the people that were there loved us and had a great time.

At the end of the night the owner complained that we hadn't brought in a crowd, and was giving me a hard time about paying me the agreed upon price. (He finally did.)

He asked if I had told all my friends that I was playing there, and, if I had, why weren't they there to support me.

I told him that I had, indeed, told all of my friends where I was playing and that there response to me was "I wouldn't be caught dead in a hellhole like that place."

[Justaplayer]

I played a gig at one of the local dives a few weeks ago. It was a pretty small crowd, but the people that were there loved us and had a great time. At the end of the night the owner complained that we hadn't brought in a crowd, and was giving me a hard time about paying me the agreed upon price. (He finally did.) He asked if I had told all my friends that I was playing there, and, if I had, why weren't they there to support me. I told him that I had, indeed, told all of my friends where I was playing and that there response to me was "I wouldn't be caught dead in a hellhole like that place."

 

 

Ya that sounds like a bar owner for sure. Its not your problem that he runs a dive. You got your money, and the crowd liked you and that is cool. Its different in Canada. Any time a club owner haggles me I tell him to not pay me thats cool, and then I let my agent deal with him. If a bar owner screws a band, he won't get another one from any agent.

[ModernSaloon]

A most illuminating thread on the mechanics of pay-to-play...

 

It seems to me that whoever thinks he can make a living running a heavy metal club is as delusional as those 14 year old players looking for their "big break". Hint hint: if your main source of income is the tickets that the bands sell, you are not in your way to becoming a Rock mogul.

 

And what's the deal with the "followers"? What kind of loser "follows" a band? Don't they have anything better to do with their lives? To be honest, if I was playing in a band I would be creeped out if we had to deal with "followers".

 

Sorry if this sounds too harsh, but reading this thread, I get the impression that those would-be impresarios seem as much in need of a clue as your average "I'm going to hit the big time any day now" garage band.

[faileddrummer]

A most illuminating thread on the mechanics of pay-to-play... It seems to me that whoever thinks he can make a living running a heavy metal club is as delusional as those 14 year old players looking for their "big break". Hint hint: if your main source of income is the tickets that the bands sell, you are not in your way to becoming a Rock mogul. And what's the deal with the "followers"? What kind of loser "follows" a band? Don't they have anything better to do with their lives? To be honest, if I was playing in a band I would be creeped out if we had to deal with "followers". Sorry if this sounds too harsh, but reading this thread, I get the impression that those would-be impresarios seem as much in need of a clue as your average "I'm going to hit the big time any day now" garage band.

 

 

 

The Crowbar in Ybor... Metal club. Been open for years.

[indigoguy]

Will you pay a band $200 for doing absoluty nothing to promote themselves? Aside from the fact you just spent over $200 on flyers, ad space, etc .

 

 

I'm maybe missing the point here perhaps but shouldn't you be paying a band to turn up and play, as that is their job - you're the promoter so its your job to do the promotion is it not. Obviously any band will want as many people as possible at their shows and will attempt to get folk down but the bottom line is that filling the venue is the promoter's job, entertaining them is the band's. And if you are not paying the band why should they feel obligated to do their best to get people down there, all to make you and the venue money?

[Justaplayer]

 

A most illuminating thread on the mechanics of pay-to-play... It seems to me that whoever thinks he can make a living running a heavy metal club is as delusional as those 14 year old players looking for their "big break". Hint hint: if your main source of income is the tickets that the bands sell, you are not in your way to becoming a Rock mogul. And what's the deal with the "followers"? What kind of loser "follows" a band? Don't they have anything better to do with their lives? To be honest, if I was playing in a band I would be creeped out if we had to deal with "followers". Sorry if this sounds too harsh, but reading this thread, I get the impression that those would-be impresarios seem as much in need of a clue as your average "I'm going to hit the big time any day now" garage band.

 

 

Well, I can't comment on the heavy metal scene ( I do think metal bands get a raw deal) I can provide an example of the value of, "followers". The following link is of a band from Ontario, Canada, that do very very well fiscally. They actually don't want a record deal, because they can make more money without one. They are just a party band, but you listen and be the judge. I know these guys personally, and can tell you they have no worries about money. http://getambushed.com/ambush/index.php?option=com_seyret&task=videodirectlink&Itemid=49&id=16 If you look around the site after listening to the vid, you will notice they appear to have their own army.

[Duffage]

I'm maybe missing the point here perhaps but shouldn't you be paying a band to turn up and play, as that is their job - you're the promoter so its your job to do the promotion is it not. Obviously any band will want as many people as possible at their shows and will attempt to get folk down but the bottom line is that filling the venue is the promoter's job, entertaining them is the band's. And if you are not paying the band why should they feel obligated to do their best to get people down there, all to make you and the venue money?

My thoughts also.

[Kramerguy]

I'm starting to wonder why it's the bands (financial) responsibility to promote the band??

 

If a bar wants to sell beer and is featuring a band, shouldn't the BAR be paying the PROMOTER to advertise the event? How retarded can a businessman be (bar owner) to put the night's success solely on the band to not only perform, but to bring the customers and promote themselves? It's become backwards assed and bars/clubs that do that to bands deserve to go out of business.

[Justaplayer]

I'm starting to wonder why it's the bands (financial) responsibility to promote the band?? If a bar wants to sell beer and is featuring a band, shouldn't the BAR be paying the PROMOTER to advertise the event? How retarded can a businessman be (bar owner) to put the night's success solely on the band to not only perform, but to bring the customers and promote themselves? It's become backwards assed and bars/clubs that do that to bands deserve to go out of business.

 

 

It appears that club owners have gained the upper hand. If you want to get to a level that pays very well, and you are steadily booked, you half to go the extra mile. Bar owners are jaded, and we can blame them all we want, but its not all their fault. For years, some agents have sent them bands that were supposed to be " incredible, awesome etc etc" and then the club gets a band that sucks, and that kills his weekend. I know agents that don't even bother to check out the band they book. They don't give a crap as long as they get their percentage. So the bar owner is thinking that if the band has a following, they must be decent and he or she won't get killed on the till.

[MaxKincaide]

It appears that club owners have gained the upper hand. If you want to get to a level that pays very well, and you are steadily booked, you half to go the extra mile. Bar owners are jaded, and we can blame them all we want, but its not all their fault. For years, some agents have sent them bands that were supposed to be " incredible, awesome etc etc" and then the club gets a band that sucks, and that kills his weekend. I know agents that don't even bother to check out the band they book. They don't give a crap as long as they get their percentage. So the bar owner is thinking that if the band has a following, they must be decent and he or she won't get killed on the till.

 

 

Yes and no.

 

It's not really anyone's fault, or it's both side's fault...however you choose to look at it.

 

Bands are starting to adopt the pay to play mentality, so they think that playing simply for the exposure is good enough to get them "out there". Bar owners are running a business, and cutting costs wherever possible is something we all do on a daily basis...it's just good business. So why offer to pay a band that is willing to play for free? That's cutting into the profit margin.

 

Sure, it would be the ethical thing to do for a bar owner to say, "Hey, fellas, I know you guys said that you're just happy to play for the exposure, but here's a cut off the door for your trouble, since you guys are helping me to make money." But the reality is that if the band isn't asking, the bar isn't offering. And if your band is asking for a guarantee and another band isn't, chances are the owner is going to turn down your band and grab the band that isn't asking for any money, even if they aren't of equal or better quality as your band.

 

Bar owners are jaded, but so are bands. To me, it's one of those situations where you can either point fingers and complain about the situation or start trying to educate everyone toward the business aspect of being in a band.

 

Too many bands start out these days wanting it all with the least amount of effort possible. It's kinda a sign of the times, really. That's what everyone's all about these days...more bang for your buck. Since the internet makes it easier for your music to be heard over a greater distance, why not just record music in your bedroom all day and post it on the internet in hopes of the right person stumbling across it? Since there's so many bands around that are trying to do the same thing you're doing, why not make your band more appealing by playing for free?

 

The problem is that it's a short term fix. Bands will get more shows for playing for free, sure. But they will never get further than local or regional status...not unless they have the money to spend themselves...rich parents or a very well paying day job. Bands these days aren't looking at the long term picture. It takes money to buy the van and the gas to take you to your next show. It takes money to pay for the recording or recording equipment to record your music. It takes money to pay for the CD's that you are going to want to distribute. It takes money to pay for the merchandise to sell at your shows and from your website. It takes money to keep your instrument in playing condition...and that goes for any and all equipment a band uses.

 

There just is no getting around the expenses that are going to happen within a band. Unless the band members are independantly wealthy, the band is going to NEED to get paid in order to continue playing any kind of shows. And even if they are independantly wealthy, bands need to understand that unless they are playing for a verified charity, they are providing a service to the promoter/booker/venue owner. Payment for your services should be a priority, regardless of whether you're "in it for the money" or not. It's not about your intentions in this regard.

 

If you're in a band that plays out, you're involved in a business transaction...like it or not. Being involved in a business where others are competitive but still have expenses can be tricky. But if you're in a band, and you play at venues for people who have to pay to hear you play, you're conducting a business. You should treat it as such. What you do impacts that other bands in the area, and ultimately bands at a national level and higher...like I said before, if the venue knows of other bands that will play for free, why would they book your band if you're asking for payment?